17 Seconds

80 wins? 80 wins, yet somehow get into the playoffs? Good chance 80 wins takes the central in 09 care to make a friendly wager on that? No, because I never said I thought it would. I said there's a good chance. Who else besides the Cubs are a great bet to be over .500 this year?

Dumb play, mistake, flaw in judgment, like I said its all a matter of the adjective you want to use. Be honest, you didn't really read his post, did you? Yeah it doesn't really seem like he knows what the argument was about

80 wins? 80 wins, yet somehow get into the playoffs? Good chance 80 wins takes the central in 09 I think 80 wins is exremely pessimistic though.

80 wins?

Dumb play, mistake, flaw in judgment, like I said its all a matter of the adjective you want to use. I think the people that could best gauge his aptitude would be the people that he spent the most time with, mainly Lou, Hendry, other coaches, his teammates, beat writers, etc. Bruce is pretty reserved in his criticism of players, so I would tend to think that if Bruce was insinuating that Cedeno was viewed as not very bright, that would be closer to the truth than any of us posters on a message board. Who here is saying he's a smart player?

It's certainly not young. When a team wants "young" talent, that means early to mid 20's

the "wooosh" implied you were joking. do you think she's hot or not? that picture highlighted her snaggletooth... i was just saying you should have picked one that hid it

Heilman isn't young

Just unlucky

he was hustling, lol? he was trying to steal, he should've been "hustling". that doesnt mean it wasnt an idiotic play. It's not an idiotic play. Suppose Molina airmails the ball and Ronny ends up scoring. Who made the idiotic play Molina or Cedeno? I mean Molina threw the ball down to second when he shouldn't have. it was a freakish play with a bad result. Please, stop the nonsense. so if it wasnt stupid, what was it? unlucky? A mistake? I mean, it's not like the only 2 adjectives you can use to describe a play are "idiotic" and "unlucky".

wooooosh your post seemed pretty sincere and other than the snaggle tooth, she looked good in that picture

is this is a competition of who made the most stupid plays? i think cedeno would blow the competition away if so. I think he was being sarcastic and saying that throwing errors don't mean a player is being dumb We are all arguing degree of deficiency here. Some say "idiotic", some say "dumb", some say "not the smartest"...... Its all a matter of the adjective that you want to use. And how many players in professional sports actually get thrown out sliding past second base on a walk? I'm guessing the odds of it happening during a ballgame are pretty astronomical. And then to admit that you didn't know there was a rule that you couldn't pass 2nd base? That is getting into Michael Barrett territory. In regard to Bruce, pointing out one of many "insert adjective for Cedeno's deficiency" mistakes over the course of his time with the Cubs isn't piling on. Piling on would be if he took the time to list multiple instances. I don't get the Barrett reference

Jewel is kinda is/was hot, but damn dude you picked a horrible picture to make that argument with

is this is a competition of who made the most stupid plays? i think cedeno would blow the competition away if so. I think he was being sarcastic and saying that throwing errors don't mean a player is being dumb

i love how people make that "thrown out at 2nd base on a walk" thing into some completely idiotic move. didn't he just overslide the bag or something? oversliding the bag isn't idiotic? It was a mistake. It happens more than people let on. I don't really see how it's "idiotic". i think it's pretty stupid. if you think about it, he's got about a 7 foot span to stop himself and still be on the bag. just one of the many stupid thing he did during his time here. i'll always remember him firing balls into the first few rows behind the visitor's dugout. That's another thing that's not "idiotic". It's not like he was like "wait should i throw it to Lee... or into the stands? I think I'm supposed to throw it in the stands." It was a throwing error. It had nothing to do with being an idiot I think he was definitely a dumb player, but it seems like there is a lot of piling on

i love how people make that "thrown out at 2nd base on a walk" thing into some completely idiotic move. didn't he just overslide the bag or something? oversliding the bag isn't idiotic? Because it was a 3-2 count with 2 outs there is no need to slide because 1. The batter makes an out either a ball in play or K, inning over 2. The batter walks, he moves to second and even if their is a throw that beats him he is still safe 3. The batter fouls off a pitch, he goes back to first 4. The batter gets a hit, in which case sliding into second is completely idiotic because he could potentially advance to 3B or even score if he stays on his feet and sees where the ball is going Was it really a 3-2 count with 2 outs? I don't remember. Why did the catcher even throw it then?

There's a difference between dancing around a topic and coming out and refuting it heavily

i love how people make that "thrown out at 2nd base on a walk" thing into some completely idiotic move. didn't he just overslide the bag or something? Yep, so they're not even right. He was thrown out going from 2nd to 3rd. At least Ryan Theriot is a smart baserunner. i thought the "Theriot is a smart baserunner" stuff stopped after last season when he made numerous baserunning blunders (and I'm not even talking about CS)

i love how people make that "thrown out at 2nd base on a walk" thing into some completely idiotic move. didn't he just overslide the bag or something? oversliding the bag isn't idiotic? It was a mistake. It happens more than people let on. I don't really see how it's "idiotic".

We know the Padres liked Olson and offered Khalil Greene for him. But that doesn't mean the Padres love Olson or anything like that. When you factor in what the Padres ended up getting for Greene, Olson would have been a good trade for them. But thinking Olson was a main piece in a deal, is also kinda guessing. Sean Marshall probably has more value then Olson, and Gaudin probably has simliar. I don't see how Olson is this great piece that needs to be on the team to get Peavy. Of course following rumors all offseason we would think so. But nobody knows for sure if Pie for Olson trade was made for a Peavy deal. Wait, what? Where did I ever say anything about Olson being a main piece in the trade? The only reason I mentioned his name was to show the difference between a player who we know interests Towers (he ever repeated it a few days ago) and a player who "might be involved" based on speculation of some writers who don't really know. I was referring to the "the guys acquired for DeRosa will presumably be shipped for peavy". There's no reason to presume that at all.

I have, he with Kevin Hart, Vitters and Olson were the main names I heard. We've heard spculation about what the Padres might want, which is basically just a guess. How many names have we actually heard mentioned, and how many of those are the Padres actually interested in? It's all just guessing and even making things up. We know they were interested in Olson. We have no idea if they were interested in Stevens.

Are people talking about the team collapsing? I haven't seen that. The Cubs have made a million moves without getting any better or positioning themselves to be better in the future. That's frustrating. There were some posts a few pages back saying that Hendry is going to be surprised that his team is a couple games over .500 halfway through the season. I agree its frustrating though. Obviously I was being kind of sarcastic, but would it really be a surprise if that ended up being true? I think most people has us at 85-90 wins right now. If we catch a few bad breaks it's not that crazy to think that they could be only slightly above average

I don't see how Hendry has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt this offseason. Also, whether ot nor he makes other moves doesn't really excuse some of the other dumb things he's done. Getting as little as he did for DeRosa is basd. Giving Miles the contract he did is bad. Giving Bradley what he didis bad. Trading Cedeno and Olson for Heilman is bad. Those are bad moves, regardless of what follows them. What he got for DeRosa was pitching prospects which presumably will lead to Peavy. Who knows how the contracts to Miles and Bradley will work out? Waiting for their prices to go down might have resulted in them signing with another team and then posters would jump all over Hendry for not signing them. On the surface, the Cedeno + Olsen for Heilman deal doesn't look great, but Olson's strongest traits were that he had an option left and it was rumored that the Padres wanted him in a Peavy deal. He has been a terrible major league pitcher. I'm not defending any of the moves Hendry has made, but none of us are fully aware of what's happening financially with the Cubs and other clubs and what kinds of discussions are going on with other GMs. That's why I said we need to wait and see what the final roster looks like. Why are you presuming the guys they got from Cleveland are going in a Peavy trade? Stephens is one of the rumored names in a Peavy deal, but if none of them go to SD they still add to the minor league depth to replace pitching prospects that would be in the deal. I haven't seen anything about Stevens being involved. And yes they add to the system, of course they do. The point was that they weren't a good enough package for the player we traded for them.

Huh? I think you're mixing up Olson with Gregg you're right. my bad :oops: but Olson has not had a stellar career with the exception of his k/bb ratio. minor league career, or major league career?

I don't see how Hendry has earned the right to be given the benefit of the doubt this offseason. Also, whether ot nor he makes other moves doesn't really excuse some of the other dumb things he's done. Getting as little as he did for DeRosa is basd. Giving Miles the contract he did is bad. Giving Bradley what he didis bad. Trading Cedeno and Olson for Heilman is bad. Those are bad moves, regardless of what follows them. What he got for DeRosa was pitching prospects which presumably will lead to Peavy. Who knows how the contracts to Miles and Bradley will work out? Waiting for their prices to go down might have resulted in them signing with another team and then posters would jump all over Hendry for not signing them. On the surface, the Cedeno + Olsen for Heilman deal doesn't look great, but Olson's strongest traits were that he had an option left and it was rumored that the Padres wanted him in a Peavy deal. He has been a terrible major league pitcher. I'm not defending any of the moves Hendry has made, but none of us are fully aware of what's happening financially with the Cubs and other clubs and what kinds of discussions are going on with other GMs. That's why I said we need to wait and see what the final roster looks like. Why are you presuming the guys they got from Cleveland are going in a Peavy trade?