17 Seconds

More like 2 horrific seasons. 2005 wasn't horrific

No, it's nothing like that. Nobody with any sense of logic would think so. If you got in a car accident because you were drunk, you have a problem. If you hurt yourself while drinking to the point of not being able to perform your job, you have problem. I don't know how you can criticize my logic when you're saying a person who happened to slip and fall while drinking automatically has a drinking problem. I'll ask you this again. Do you EVER drink? Isn't it true that you could easily slip and hurt your leg while drunk, just as you could do it while sober? Answer me those questions. Slipping and falling while intoxicated doesn't mean you have a drinking problem. It means you're unlucky. Saying otherwise is completely ridiculous and you know it.

Just because you don't understand it doesn't mean it doesn't make sense. I said he doesn't have a track record of sustained success worthy of a guaranteed job. Contract situations are the only reason he's nearly a lock. He has filled in admirably as a starter, but he's also pitched fairly unimpressively for stretches. Since hurting himself while drunk last year. His lack of top talent, the reason he's not a starting pitcher or a top notch reliever, suggests he's just another inconsistent arm. Overall performance is far more important than how those numbers were achieved. How many leage average pitchers aren't inconsistent? What does that even mean? Where does it come from? The fact that he was bad for like 8 innings when he was with the Cubs. Pushing aside a huge sample ize worth of numbers because "he's inconsistent" sounds a lot like you're tryong to find ways to talk him down.

I've seen at least one person that said he wished they'd get rid of Gaudin for patton if "somebody picked up part of the tab on him". Meaning he'd be okay with even eating part of Gaudin's contract just to get rid of him. Either way, the debate is whether or not Gaudin helps this team more than Patton.

He was a god awful drunk who entered Lou's doghouse immediately and hasn't shown any glimmer of hope since. A god awful drunk? Where does this stuff even come from? There's a rumor about his injury happeneing when he was drunk and suddenly he's a drunk? Adults are allowed to drink guys. A god awful pitcher who is a drunk. He's a drunk because he got injured drinking. I'm all for boozing it up, but when it gets in the way of your work, you have a problem. C'mon dude. He happened to get hurt when when he was supposedly drinking. That means he's a drunk? How many players drink from time to time? A LOT. Any one of them could have slipped and fallen while they were drunk. Calling Gaudin a drunk because of one incident is not fair at all. It's ridiculous. What if you slipped while drunk and couldn't work for the next couple weeks. Would that mean you have a problem and are a drunk? No, it would just mean you got unlucky. Gaudin is no different from anybody else. If your drinking leads to problems at work or family life, you have a drinking problem. Dude. Lol what? You make no sense. You said "I'm all for boozing it up". Okay, so let's say you drink from time to time... meaning you don't have a problem. Isn't it true that you could slip and fall during any of those times and hurt your leg? If that happened that wouldn't suddenly mean you have a problem. That's just ridiculous. That's like saying someone has a drinking problem because they got in a car accident on the way to the store to buy beer for a party.

Gaudin's performance has been very inconsistent. I don't have love for Patton, I dislike veteran relievers assured of spots despite horrible performances because of contract situations. Again, Gaudin has 449 career innings that show he is NOT horrible. It shows that he is about league average and can go from the pen to the rotation. That has value, especially on this team. I don't think people realize how thin our starting pitching depth could get in a real hurry. You can't go trading away guys that are proven to be average in that role just because you want to make way for a guy with good spring training numbers. You disputed the statement that he doesn't have a track record of sustained success. He's been inconsistent. And ever since he became a Cub, he's sucked. Middle reliever types and the kind of guys who occasional spot start, guys who aren't good enough to start on a regular basis in the rotation or be lockdown relievers, are notoriously inconsistent. The fact that his average performance in the majors has been relatively average doesn't change anything. That doesn't real make any sense. He's proven to be league avaerage for an extended period of time. Whether he's consistent or not doesn't change that. It sounds like you're looking for ways to discredit him. 449 innings worth of numbers is 449 innings worth of numbers. You ewant to throw that away because of a tiny portion of that in which you happened to watch. You're not recognizing sample size. And saying that he sucked since he came to the Cubs is just incorrect. He was great in his first 19.2 innings with the team..... with a 2.75 ERA, a WHIP under 1, and a 21/5 K/B. Then he sucked in his last 7.2 innings, most of which came after the injury.

why do we KNOW that glavie is a HOFer? because he has racked up a high total of a team stat due to playing on great teams? glavine doesn't belong in the same category as RJ and Maddux

Gaudin's performance has been very inconsistent. I don't have love for Patton, I dislike veteran relievers assured of spots despite horrible performances because of contract situations. Again, Gaudin has 449 career innings that show he is NOT horrible. It shows that he is about league average and can go from the pen to the rotation. That has value, especially on this team. I don't think people realize how thin our starting pitching depth could get in a real hurry. You can't go trading away guys that are proven to be average in that role just because you want to make way for a guy with good spring training numbers.

Not really. Throwing away a guy who can start with a proven league average ERA for a 24 year old reliever who can't get past A+ just because he had a good spring training would be an awful, awful move. Seriously guys, these are spring training numbers. Rocky Cherry.

He was a god awful drunk who entered Lou's doghouse immediately and hasn't shown any glimmer of hope since. A god awful drunk? Where does this stuff even come from? There's a rumor about his injury happeneing when he was drunk and suddenly he's a drunk? Adults are allowed to drink guys. A god awful pitcher who is a drunk. He's a drunk because he got injured drinking. I'm all for boozing it up, but when it gets in the way of your work, you have a problem. C'mon dude. He happened to get hurt when when he was supposedly drinking. That means he's a drunk? How many players drink from time to time? A LOT. Any one of them could have slipped and fallen while they were drunk. Calling Gaudin a drunk because of one incident is not fair at all. It's ridiculous. What if you slipped while drunk and couldn't work for the next couple weeks. Would that mean you have a problem and are a drunk? No, it would just mean you got unlucky. Gaudin is no different from anybody else.

If Gaudin were to be moved, it would be more to open up a roster spot and hopefully dump some salary. I wouldnt expect much in return at all. Probably wont happen though. Afterall, every team needs a mop up man. Gaudin is better than just a mop up man.

Not at all unpredictable, that a promising young arm would be lost because the Cubs have to find space for overpaid veteran relievers with no roster flexibility. It's a real shame they trade Marquis for an immovable object. Patton is a near 25 year old who spent last year in High A. He supposedly has good stuff and has had a strong spring, but let's not go overboard here. The odds of getting decent production out of Patton aren't so different than Vizcaino having a decent year. And Gaudin is a better option than Patton, without question. Vizcaino and Gaudin don't have track records of sustained success worthy of guaranteed spots. Gaudin doesn't? He now has 449 career innings of about league average numbers. With the injury risks in our rotation, guys like Gaudin who can pitch out of the pen and then do spot starts at a league average quality are valuable. I don't really understand the sudden love for Patton. Yeah, he has good stuff. Lots of guys do. He's almost 25 and hasn't gotten past A+, hasn't even been good there, and we're dumping about dumping a proven commodity like Gaudin so we can make room for him. This is the very definition of putting way too much stock in spring training numbers.

He was a god awful drunk who entered Lou's doghouse immediately and hasn't shown any glimmer of hope since. A god awful drunk? Where does this stuff even come from? There's a rumor about his injury happeneing when he was drunk and suddenly he's a drunk? Adults are allowed to drink guys.

I am not trying to make a case for him to start, Im just saying his bat should belong in the Majors. Maybe he sucks like everyone says he does. nobody is saying he sucks. it's just that his defense and lack of position makes it really hard to find a spot for him. if he keeps hitting well he'll make it as a bench player somewhere eventually.

the daryle ward that the cubs let go? jake fox could be fine as a journeyman bench player like ward. he just doesn't fit into this current team plus ward is still probably more competent defensively than fox

Just a little??: Jake Fox TEN SOU .307 105 388 76 119 29 1 25 79 225 46 73 4 2 .397 .580 .976 Idk maybe Im wrong, just think he's better than people think i never said he couldn't hit well at aa. hell, it would be pretty sad if a 25 year old without a position DIDN'T rake in aa I belive M. Hoffpauir was 30 and in AAA last year so shouldnt he rake he did rake in aaa for the past 2 seasons, better than fox. and he can actually play a position adequately.

i don't know what a flaming blitzkrieg is but i'm intrigued

Just a little??: Jake Fox TEN SOU .307 105 388 76 119 29 1 25 79 225 46 73 4 2 .397 .580 .976 Idk maybe Im wrong, just think he's better than people think i never said he couldn't hit well at aa. hell, it would be pretty sad if a 25 year old without a position DIDN'T rake in aa

whoa. patton has earned his spot over the out-of-options gaudin because of a good spring training? come on. it's spring training. remember when rocky cherry was perfect in ST? gaudin has proven he can be a decent reliever/starter, which is something we'll need with harden in the rotation. what has patton proven? he's almost 25 and has never been past A+ ball.... and hasn't even been good there.

so are you trying to tell us fox isn't a bad defender? based on that?

there's so much funny about this. he's better than player a, unless he hits first, in which case player a is better than he is. Clearly you lack the proper understanding of the nuances of the game. Being a leadoff man isn't just batting first, it's a state of mind that numbers cannot express. i can't tell if this is sarcasm or not. i'm going to go ahead and assume it is, but you anime folk are tricky

yeah fox can probably hit a little, but not well enough to be a dh.

to be nice, or because you think you could get something?

lol bleacherreport oh and this quote- should probably tell you that you shouldn't be reading anything on that site anymore

if he could play any position adequately he'd probably make the team, but he can't