javy knows my name

This would be flat-out hilarity.

What would Minnesota do with Jeff Clement? I don't understand the mention of him here.

Isn't the reported twins asking price Kemp, LaRoche, and Kershaw? No need to add Hu or upgrade from Kershaw to Billingsley to get it done. And the dodgers aren't willing to do that. I'm guessing Kershaw will be the sticking point for both teams. This would have been a whole lot easier if Elbert didn't have shoulder surgery. Upgrade from Kershaw to Billingsley? I've heard a lot of talk that teams prefer Kershaw. Given that Kershaw is like 15 years old, I would have to think he is the better prospect.

I'm well beyond amazement and into infuriated now. I think I remember Lou saying that one things he wanted was a left handed bat he could leave in the middle of the line up against lefties. He seemed to think one the Cubs problems against lefties were to many right-handed batters in a row. The theory being it allows the pitcher to get to comfortable throwing to that many righties in row and get in a groove. Does anyone know if there is anything to Lou’s mad little theory. That's a really bogus excuse. And nothing like babying the Cubs hitters: "It's not that you're impatient, it's just that we have too many righties in a row!" This is borderline Dusty crap and I'm sick of it. I thought Lou was gonna kick their free-swinging asses and instead he's placating them. I am confused how Lou is saying he would like a lefty who can hit left-handed pitching in the middle of the line up giving hitters an excuse for not being patient. This. This is how they got themselves out against the Doug Davises of the world. Lou is essentially saying that an extra lefty hitter thrown in there would improve their success against lefties. This is obviously ridiculous, as their problem was pitch selection, not "the guy got in a groove." The only time guys who don't top 85 mph "get in a groove" is when they get an impatient team to swing at their bad pitches. Obviously, Greg Maddox was a master at this, but this is Doug Davis we're talking about. Yes, I realize we had one very decent game against Davis, but for me, he stands for all mediocre lefty pitchers. Our performance against him during the season was an aberration - just look at game 2 of the postseason.

Yeah, they wouldn't need to do that. I don't know if any single player in MLB could justify that type of offer.

Where'd you read that the Red Sox are willing to deal Ellsbury? Everything i've read says the only holdup in the trade is that Boston won't part with him. Does anyone know what Ellsbury's ceiling is? What little I saw of him last season showed no hr power (though he did hit quite a few doubles in the playoffs). It seems to be that he is being greatly over-valued, and though he would get on base more, the Twins would face a pretty big dropoff power production from the center-field spot, IMO. If Ellsbury, Lester and second-tier prospects got Santana, I wouldn't hesitate if I were the Sox. Santana, Beckett and Dice-K/Bucholz might be the best three-man rotation the world has ever seen.

OH MY GOD. NO. NO. NO. NO. Do you know who Johan Santana is?! This is the best pitcher out there, period. Not the best pitcher on the trade market. Not the best pitcher who is a free agent next year. He is the best pitcher in the major leagues. The Yankees trump your offer with Phil Hughes. Marshall, Gallagher, Colvin and garbage don't get you Miguel Tejada plus all of his salary. This is just insanity. WHY would the twins do your deal? Please, I just want one reason. If trades like this got done, the league would be full of either teams with 13 AAAA-ers or teams with 5 stud pitchers and 8 elite hitters. Please. First off, I didn't say it was likely. I said it was prefered. Secondly, when Team A trades a player because they can't afford him they usually come up short on talent. Very rarely do you get all you can when teams know you have to trade the player. Granted, we are talking about Johan Santana and the likelihood of the Twins getting taken for a ride or slim to none. I don't believe that what I offered was garbage. I'm certainly not saying that any player I listed is as highly touted, or has a higher ceiling then Hughes does. That's not to say that I don't think the players I mentioned have value. And I believe that the players have more value then most here believe. If the Yankees give up Hughes, Kennedy, and Melky. They're basically giving up a possible #1 SP, #4 or 5 SP, and an average CF. While the Cubs don't have a possible #1 to give up, they could give enough SP to fill the middle/back end of a rotation (see Pierre, Juan trade) and still include young, experienced ML talent in any of Murton/Cedeno/Theriot/Fontenot. Or could give up someone like Patterson, who I think will be a starter in MLB. Again, I'm not saying the Cubs could "with out a doubt" get Santana for one of these packages, I'm just saying they should explore it. There is no reason to explore this. There is no "young, experienced ML talent" in this group - (Murton/Cedeno/Theriot/Fontenot) These are Yankee pipe-dreams. I thought Cubs fans were better than this. I don't think the Twins get this done with Hughes, Kennedy and Melky, let alone with guys that we don't want or need. Well, apparently that's what's being offered. So, it's that or Ellsbury and Lester from BoSox. If that's not good enough for you, or the Twins then they can keep him and lose him and get a couple picks at the end of next year. I don't think that's what the Twins want. I think they want the best value available. Hughes may be the best single player they can get, but when was the last time you saw a team drop their top 5-6 prospects to get a guy? Pipedream? The pipedream is expecting a team to give up every prospect in their system. Like I initially stated, the Twins will in no way get back equal value when trading a player like Johan Santana. It rarely happens that you get equal talent. Especially when teams know you're shopping that player. One final thing. All of Murton/Cedeno/Theriot/Fontenot have experience. They have been on the ML roster, have played in games. That my friend is experience and each and every one of them is an experienced MLB player. They have no value. Since you did not specify that you would offer an experienced MLB player with no value, I felt like your trade proposal was lacking.

Jason Bartlett is a nice pickup too. The Rays terrible run prevention last year wasn't just bad pitchers. The defense behind those pitchers was just awful. Bartlett is a very good to elite defensive SS. Even if he isn't any better than replacement level on offense, he has a lot of value for Tampa. And if Brignac shows he's completely ready, Bartlett isn't so good you can't bench/trade him for the new guy. As a Rays fan, I like the deal. Trade from a source of depth to get lots of value where we're weak. I hate to lose the potential of someone like Young, but I feel it's worth it. I don't think Garza will ever be a #1, but that's not what the team needs. A solid #3/possible #2 is exactly what the team does need. Another good thing, in my opinion, is this deal reinforces what I've believed for a couple years: There's almost 0 chance the Rays will trade Crawford for prospects. It never made any sense to me that people thought the team would trade him unless it was for an elite pitcher(Oswalt, Santana, Zambrano. etc.). He signed a below market deal to stay in Tampa. He's been an all-star and the face of the franchise. Only way it'd make sense to trade him is if 1) he was in the last year of his deal and 2) he refused to sign an extension. Neither of those things are anywhere close to being true. This is why the Rays are stupid.

OH MY GOD. NO. NO. NO. NO. Do you know who Johan Santana is?! This is the best pitcher out there, period. Not the best pitcher on the trade market. Not the best pitcher who is a free agent next year. He is the best pitcher in the major leagues. The Yankees trump your offer with Phil Hughes. Marshall, Gallagher, Colvin and garbage don't get you Miguel Tejada plus all of his salary. This is just insanity. WHY would the twins do your deal? Please, I just want one reason. If trades like this got done, the league would be full of either teams with 13 AAAA-ers or teams with 5 stud pitchers and 8 elite hitters. Please. First off, I didn't say it was likely. I said it was prefered. Secondly, when Team A trades a player because they can't afford him they usually come up short on talent. Very rarely do you get all you can when teams know you have to trade the player. Granted, we are talking about Johan Santana and the likelihood of the Twins getting taken for a ride or slim to none. I don't believe that what I offered was garbage. I'm certainly not saying that any player I listed is as highly touted, or has a higher ceiling then Hughes does. That's not to say that I don't think the players I mentioned have value. And I believe that the players have more value then most here believe. If the Yankees give up Hughes, Kennedy, and Melky. They're basically giving up a possible #1 SP, #4 or 5 SP, and an average CF. While the Cubs don't have a possible #1 to give up, they could give enough SP to fill the middle/back end of a rotation (see Pierre, Juan trade) and still include young, experienced ML talent in any of Murton/Cedeno/Theriot/Fontenot. Or could give up someone like Patterson, who I think will be a starter in MLB. Again, I'm not saying the Cubs could "with out a doubt" get Santana for one of these packages, I'm just saying they should explore it. There is no reason to explore this. There is no "young, experienced ML talent" in this group - (Murton/Cedeno/Theriot/Fontenot) These are Yankee pipe-dreams. I thought Cubs fans were better than this. I don't think the Twins get this done with Hughes, Kennedy and Melky, let alone with guys that we don't want or need.

Can he play RF? He can't play any defensive position. He's not "Pat the glove"

OH MY GOD. NO. NO. NO. NO. Do you know who Johan Santana is?! This is the best pitcher out there, period. Not the best pitcher on the trade market. Not the best pitcher who is a free agent next year. He is the best pitcher in the major leagues. The Yankees trump your offer with Phil Hughes. Marshall, Gallagher, Colvin and garbage don't get you Miguel Tejada plus all of his salary. This is just insanity. WHY would the twins do your deal? Please, I just want one reason. If trades like this got done, the league would be full of either teams with 13 AAAA-ers or teams with 5 stud pitchers and 8 elite hitters. Please.

I'm well beyond amazement and into infuriated now. I think I remember Lou saying that one things he wanted was a left handed bat he could leave in the middle of the line up against lefties. He seemed to think one the Cubs problems against lefties were to many right-handed batters in a row. The theory being it allows the pitcher to get to comfortable throwing to that many righties in row and get in a groove. Does anyone know if there is anything to Lou’s mad little theory. That's a really bogus excuse. And nothing like babying the Cubs hitters: "It's not that you're impatient, it's just that we have too many righties in a row!" This is borderline Dusty crap and I'm sick of it. I thought Lou was gonna kick their free-swinging asses and instead he's placating them.

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year. Thank you. I was scrolling down trying to find out if someone would post this, otherwise I was going to. The effect of Coors on Holliday's totals has been wildly overestimated when you consider that Rollins plays in a similarly hitter friendly park. Even more ridiculous is the fact that he wasn't even the best shortstop in his league, and this shortstop happened to play in Pro Player :shock: Wonder what Rollins' number would look like in Pro Player... :-& rollins at citizens bank: 300/336/556 rollins at dolphins stadium: 341/404/659 Not trying to start an arguement, but how many games did Rollins play in PP, and who did he hit against. It's like saying Player X had a career line of .315/.408/.495 at Wrigley before being signed by the Cubs, problem is he played 8 games there and hit against Cubs pitching. With the Cubs he put up .265/.335/.406 at Wrigley. Now, that's a made up player, but I've heard things like that mentioned on enough Cubs broadcasts in my life to make me cringe. oh, i know. i don't think rollins would be nearly as good with a full season in pro player stadium. but in rollins defense, his home/road numbers aren't that different. still not close to mvp-worthy, but i don't think playing in philly had a HUGE effect on him this season. i just thought rollins split at dolphins stadium was interesting. It makes sense that a guy would hit for a better average at PP. But Rollins would have hit 12 hrs this year had he played there.

If they get Izturis, what would he do? .300 with 20 homers? I'd rather have Izturis than Jack Wilson's hideous contract. :-&

I have FJM on the line. They told me this would be easier than a Joe-chat.

As if Citizen's Bank is Griffith Stadium or something? That place is more of a bandbox than Coors these days. Coors was 10th in baseball in home runs this year. Thank you. I was scrolling down trying to find out if someone would post this, otherwise I was going to. The effect of Coors on Holliday's totals has been wildly overestimated when you consider that Rollins plays in a similarly hitter friendly park. Even more ridiculous is the fact that he wasn't even the best shortstop in his league, and this shortstop happened to play in Pro Player :shock: Wonder what Rollins' number would look like in Pro Player... :-&

Yeah, but there is just no way they are beating USC. They have do that and they need a loss from Arizona St. IIRC

That was done a few years ago when some people intentionally misspelled his first name to be demeaning. :shock: I'm sorry, but that is so heavy-handed it's ridiculous

I know you hate Notre Dame, but this is ridiculous. ND has at least two rivals - USC and Michigan. Maybe to ND and their fans, but not so much for the other team and their fans. That's the thing, my defineiton of a rivialry must include both teams (a) with a history, (b) a history that includes many important games, and © a history that includes some level of enmity. ND-Michigan is traditionally at the begining of the year, is out of conference, and aside from the John Carney kick hasn't included much in the way of drama. ND-USC is out of conference and the fate of the two teams is many times decided before the game begins. I don't think many USC teams have prepared their season to play ND. They are out of conference games.While USC/ND is out of conference, it's ludicrous to say their fates are decided before the game. I couldn't tell you the exact number, but USC and ND have played many a game in the rivalry where one team ruins the other's national title hopes and/or sends themselves on to one. 1964, 1973, 1977, 1988, and 2005 are five good examples of USC and ND ruining each other's title hopes, and in the last four cases, the winning team went on to play for a title of their own. One could say that about any team who plays a team who is going for a national title. If that is your definition, Illinois-OSU and Michigan State-OSU are big rivalrys. Live the dream! My final thought on the subject is remembering when Reggie Bush said of the 2005 win at ND: "This is the biggest win of my career." The man had already won a Rose Bowl and a national title. In all fairness, he won the best college football game of the last 6 years. Guh? http://bealonghorn.utexas.edu/whyut/photos/images/young_vince_td.jpg I meant up to that point. And make it four years (last being Miami-OSU in '01)

I know you hate Notre Dame, but this is ridiculous. ND has at least two rivals - USC and Michigan. Maybe to ND and their fans, but not so much for the other team and their fans. That's the thing, my defineiton of a rivialry must include both teams (a) with a history, (b) a history that includes many important games, and © a history that includes some level of enmity. ND-Michigan is traditionally at the begining of the year, is out of conference, and aside from the John Carney kick hasn't included much in the way of drama. ND-USC is out of conference and the fate of the two teams is many times decided before the game begins. I don't think many USC teams have prepared their season to play ND. They are out of conference games.While USC/ND is out of conference, it's ludicrous to say their fates are decided before the game. I couldn't tell you the exact number, but USC and ND have played many a game in the rivalry where one team ruins the other's national title hopes and/or sends themselves on to one. 1964, 1973, 1977, 1988, and 2005 are five good examples of USC and ND ruining each other's title hopes, and in the last four cases, the winning team went on to play for a title of their own. One could say that about any team who plays a team who is going for a national title. If that is your definition, Illinois-OSU and Michigan State-OSU are big rivalrys. Live the dream! My final thought on the subject is remembering when Reggie Bush said of the 2005 win at ND: "This is the biggest win of my career." The man had already won a Rose Bowl and a national title. In all fairness, he won the best college football game of the last 6 years.

That one got my vote because there was a story a few years back about a kid getting stabbed for yelling "Roll Tide!" in an Auburn frat. That rivalry is vicious.

I was gonna put Bruce on there but I really don't think he'll see much time at all.

No way! I thought you needed to play like four months in the bigs! It's 130 AB's, 50 innings, or 45 days on the roster before September call-ups. ok thanks