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Limited in practice again yesterday. He's day-to-day, just like Teven Jenkins.

I mean, the point wasn't about Nagy having Dungy's career success just having his style of coaching, lead the team while letting young coordinators develop into star coaching prospects and get credit for it. Edit: not hating on Dungy because it was his defense that the coordinators taught/coached. But I think Nagy could teach his offense and someone else have more success with it by simply having a better feel for the game (Lazor already did this against poor competition).

To be fair, our only data point for Dalton not facing the Rams is the ~1 half he got against the Bengals when he had a 118 QB rating, so we haven't quite disproven that yet. But I'm almost certain we will as soon as he gets back to starting. I see your 118 QB rating and raise you, 7 points scored.

Now this is a post I can agree with. I actually think Nagy can be an acceptable coach (in a Tony Dungy situation where he's the figurehead that lets his coordinators call the shots on gameday). And I think Pace could be an acceptable GM based on talent evaluation, if he starts valuing draft picks. But they are both problems, but they aren't the only problems. There's problems everywhere. I don't think they're disasterous problems, but obviously they will continue to be problems without serious changes in philosophies.

Totally agree. It’s way too complicated to learn the offense coupled with a bad OL - and he’s gonna get killed. I think both of those points are a bunch of loaded BS. Seriously take a step back and look at the line running the same offense last year that wasn't very good and managed a 5.5 sack rate, middle of road. There are actually some solutions for the line issues from yesterday. Why the hell some of those solutions weren't employed, or barely at all, I don't know, but I think people are letting a horrific edge of the bell curve day from the line do a little bit too much heavy lifting for a line that played about as expected the first two games. Obviously the line personnel is a bit different than last years personnel, but not by that much. This! There are worse OLs in the league. The Bears themselves have had worse, as recently as last year. And neither last year's Bears or historically worse OLs have managed only 47 yards in a full football game.

I would have strongly disagreed with that take before yesterday, and I probably still disagree but I'm more open to this way of thinking. That said, I am no football savant and have no idea if it would really do any damage. But he sure looked rattled out there late in the game which is not something I expected from Fields, even as a rookie QB making his first start. Yeah, yesterday was pretty bad. It's hard to even say that Fields would have been better yesterday had he had time with the 1s before last week or if he got a legit chance to compete for the job in camp. But it couldn't have been any worse.

Yea I'm not expecting much from Lazor. His play calling run was a cake walk. But it would also apparently be a pretty low hurdle to clear over Nagy. But also I find the idea that Pace (or McCaskey even!) should be "marching down to Nagy's office" and demanding he give playcalling to Lazor very silly. Naw, just horsefeathering fire him them. I don't necessarily think that Lazor would miraculously make this a good offense but I do think it would be improved over what we've seen. They don't even have to be "good". I know it doesn't seem like it, but the defense is still good enough that they can win more games than they lose if they can score efficiently. They have failed to score TDs on 4 of 7 redzone trips this year. They also have had multiple TD passes dropped and penalties/sacks taking them out of FG range. I mean that wouldn't have made any difference against LA and Cleveland, but that could be the difference in beating the Minnesotas, Detroits, and Vegases of the league, who are varying levels of an even playing field with the Bears.

Aaron Rodgers fell to 24th. Lamar Jackson went 32nd. Deshaun Watson was the top college QB prospect for 2 years, and went 12th. horsefeathers happens all the time, man. None of those guys were "better prospects than Peyton Manning." And for every one of them, there's a dozen guys picked around those spots who flame out I mean, you literally quoted the post and misquoted me. I never said "better" than Peyton Manning. I said on the same level. Also, I don't see the point you think you are making. They were very widely considered the top prospects at their position, until the draft came and for whatever reasons they all fell, like Fields did. It seems like you are being contrarian for contrarian sake. Because people have "seen it" for the last 4-5 years who actually get paid to "see it" (HS ratings people, college recruiters, college coaches, Heisman voters, college poll votes, NFL scouts) have said this and you "not seeing it" is very clearly you choosing not to see it. When you don't know what you are talking about, maybe defer to those that do, especially when the extent of your evaluation is "I don't see it" and you are arguing actual facts like Fields being the 3rd fastest timed QB in the league right now.

Of course, then there's this thread. Maybe he wasn't holding onto the ball too long. And definitely not a lot of open guys running around. Sent from my SM-A115AZ using Tapatalk

After a re-watch, I will actually absolve Nagy of a little bit. He actually did move the pocket more than I thought. The Browns were really well coached for when he did though as he did almost nothing outside of the pocket, just like he did nothing in the pocket. I'd say a good 3-4 of his sacks, he held onto the ball too long. Nagy called a couple RPOs which is a pretty simple read for the QB and a play Fields has run 1000 times between Ohio St, Georgia, NFL and probably high school. But on the 2nd sack, he made the right read (fake to RB) but for some reason didn't take Mooney on the slant. Last year, he would have hit Garrett Wilson in stride on that play and he probably would have scored on a bad college secondary. Here's a pretty good breakdown of every non-handoff snap. Some are a little nitpicky. But most are pretty spot on. [MEDIA=youtube]d9cExOBNjO4[/MEDIA] Run 1 - Nothing really open for Fields so he scrambles for a decent gain. Sack 1 - The OL blocking on this is atrocious but so is Fields pocket presence. You can see the pocket collapsing right away but the Browns have zero contain. Instead of scrambling to his right where he can run or throw if the defender breaks down on him, Fields just stands there waiting for the sack. The dude has no pocket awareness on this play and this will be a theme where he just takes too long to see things. Pass 1 - One of the few times he throws on time likely because the Browns play soft coverage. Sack 2 - Freeze this at 37 seconds. Fields is looking at Mooney who is open for an easy pass. Instead Fields holds it for some inexplicable reason and is sacked. Like again, this is the horsefeathering NFL. You can't just sit there waiting for something better. Mooney has completely beat his man and if Fields throws this with anticipation Mooney is still running. If this is Dalton the ball is already out. Sorry Bears fans, the kid is not ready. Sack 3 - Freeze at 49 seconds. Again what the horsefeathers is Fields reading? He has Mooney open again in the middle of the Field with room to run but he still holds the ball and takes another sack. This is the NFL, windows don't stay open for long. This ball has to come out dude. Period. Pass 2 - One of the few times Fields threw on time and surprise it is completed. Pass 3 - Fields is late on this throw which causes the defender to close down on ARob. To his credit, he then squeezes this in but if he had thrown it on time then ARob catches it with a chance at YAC. Pass 4 - Easy read and Fields sails it. No biggie horsefeathers happens. At least he actually threw on time. Sack 4 - Freeze this at 1:35. Kmet has planted his foot and Fields is at the end of his drop. Again the ball has to come out. Kmet is going to be NFL open if Fields throws this on time but once again he waits and runs himself into a sack. That is 4 sacks now and all 4 of them could have been avoided if Fields were more decisive. He simply can't wait this long in the NFL with the OL we have. This is not OSU playing Shitball U. Pass 5 - This is Fields predetermining throws. Kmet is bracketed and if he was fast thinking, he should know that means Monty has no one on him in the flat even if he isn't looking at him because the 2nd guy on Kmet is Monty's guy. So why the horsefeathers do you throw to Kmet instead of whipping it to Monty and letting him try and make a guy miss. Pass 6 - Kmet is open if Fields looks left but instead again he is just a tad too late on this throw to Mooney for this to work. Not as late as on other throws so won't knock him much on this as he also had a defender in his face but he has to throw as the WR is breaking not after. Sack 5 - At this point, I don't know what he is being coached to do but there is nothing on the front side. He has to know Kmet is chipping then releasing so he has to pivot to that side faster. You are at the end of your drop, if you don't like anything on the front side then get your eyes over to the back side where Kmet is open with space for a modest gain. You can't just stay on the route and wait for it to be open. It either is or isn't and with this OL, if it isn't then move the horsefeathers on to the backside. Pass 7 - The rollouts people clamoring for and no one is horsefeathering fooled probably because why would they as if you don't have success in the pocket, teams will be looking for the rollout. Having said that, this is a good throw on the move by Fields but Goodwin doesn't come back to the ball and lets the defender get over him for the tip. It is clear that the OL and WRs are not helping Fields out at all. Sack 6 - Freeze at 2:36, Kmet is about to flash across the defender and there will be a little window. Fields hesitates though and the window is gone. The horsefeathers OL means he now has to scramble but gets tackled from behind. Again, another play where the blocking is not great but again Fields has to make a decision quicker here. Stop hesitating and throw the ball. Pass 8 - Another roll-out that fools absolutely no one. But again, bad decision by Fields. He thinks he is going to juke Garrett and realizes he is fucked and then throws incomplete. There is nothing on the front side here. Monty is open on the backside but Fields isn't fast enough to think about what the front side being shut down means for the backside and thinks he is playing Shitball U where he can juke the DE instead of reversing field and checking backside. Nope. This is the NFL. Pass 9 - No idea why he think he can make this throw. Once again man open on the backside but Fields never makes his way there. Pass 10 - Probably his best throw of the day to ARob. Pass 11 - Throws on time to Monty who can't come down with it. At least it was on time and once again his teammates don't help him out. Run 1 - Not a good zone read at all as it fools no one. Fields lucky he didn't get killed on a bit of a late hit. Sack 7 - Another roll out that fools no one. I hope people realize that this is the NFL and this idea that teams aren't going to be prepared for rollouts of a mobile QB who is struggling within the pocket is foolish. The Browns read it so well that Fields slips for a huge loss. This is the problem with roll outs when they fail. They can easily lead to huge losses and this probably costs us a TD. Pass 12 - Takes what the D gives him and Monty runs for 11 yards or so. If only he had done more of this. Pass 13 - Nothing really open here so he tries to squeeze this in to ARob. Probably should have just taken off as he has a lane. Pass 14 - This feels like he is scared of the rush and just throws it instead of checking other reads. Incomplete and no chance. He has ARob or Kmet open on the backside if he had bothered to check or he could have run it as he has an open lane. Run 2 - Decent gain on the read option. Pass 15 - This is still actually a tad too late but not a bad pass. Pass 16 - Again this throw is a tad late which allows the defender to knock it away. Sack 8 - No chance on this one as the rush gets to him before he can finish his drop. Pass 17 - Freeze this at 5:25, and ARob is one on one at the top of the screen. Take your shot young man. Instead he dumps it to Monty who makes a nice gain. But you would like to see him recognize the one on one and give ARob a chance to make a play. Pass 18 - Freeze this at 5:38 and Kmet has the LB flat footed and his about to blow by him with Fields looking down the middle of the field. Fields doesn't pull the trigger and checks down to Monty incomplete. Again those are the types of throws he was drafted to make. The throws he was squeeze into Jesse James in camp. Those are NFL windows he is refusing to hit. Pass 19 - Does well to avoid the sack and throws it away. Pass 20 - Again not sure what he is seeing. Mooney is flashing across his vision with a few steps on his guy and if he leads him, Mooney probably runs for a first down. Instead he holds the ball and makes a tougher throw to ARob that is out of bounds. Sack 9 - No chance on this one.

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4. 5-star recruit, 2nd rated HS football recruit to Trevor Lawrence, who he beat in a Nike camp for MVP, and in the national playoffs last year. Trevor Lawrence was seen on the Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning level of QB prospects and Justin Fields was better than him every time they were on the same field. OK, so the guy who is *better* than a Peyton Manning-level prospect somehow fell to No. 11. This is the kind of hype train I'm just not seeing. Aaron Rodgers fell to 24th. Lamar Jackson went 32nd. Deshaun Watson was the top college QB prospect for 2 years, and went 12th. horsefeathers happens all the time, man.

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4. I think you're selling Cutler short. The arm definitely went a long way but he had a great reputation for leadership and general chutzpah at the QB position as a 4 year starter in the SEC who was basically the only draftable player on the roster the entire time. I'd even go as far as saying he was a great college QB in a sense, just kinda scraped his career in before offenses exploded on an SEC team without an SEC roster Eh. Cutler's reputation for leadership wasn't good, at least at the NFL level. Not sure what his teammates in college thought, though. And the Bears alone drafted 2 of his teammates from Vanderbilt (one in the 1st round). Cutler was great in college and a great prospect. I think he also went 11th in the draft, like Fields. But Fields was rated the 2nd best prospect for the last 4 years to a generational prospect.

Maybe if talent = arm only. Cutler has a better arm, but Fields has shown better in literally every other aspect of quarterbacking than Cutler and he runs a 4.4. 5-star recruit, 2nd rated HS football recruit to Trevor Lawrence, who he beat in a Nike camp for MVP, and in the national playoffs last year. Trevor Lawrence was seen on the Andrew Luck, Peyton Manning level of QB prospects and Justin Fields was better than him every time they were on the same field.

Yeah, complaining about the run game is akin to complaining about the defense today. They barely had the ball on offense, were behind all day, and were in long down and distances all game with being sacked every series. …at least part of that was because they never bothered to try to establish the run. 1st drive- 4 plays, all runs 2nd drive- 1st play sack, ran 2nd and 20 3rd drive- ran 1st down for 1 yard, sacked 2nd play (and 3rd play) 4th drive- 9 yard pass on 1st, ran 2nd and 1, 9 yard pass on 1st, threw 2nd and 1, false start on 3rd and 1 taking them out of a run situation 5th drive- passed all 3 times to open half trying to get something going on offense, I guess. 6th drive- 9 play FG drive, dropped back on the first 7 plays (1 holding call). Then ran wildcat, got 5 yards and threw final 2 plays 7th drive- Down 20-6 at this point, but tried to pass all 4 plays 8th drive- Ran 1st play, never again in final 7 plays. That 2nd FG drive (6th drive), maybe they should have run the ball more, especially once they got the PI call and got inside the 10 on a 5-yard run. But I think they did somewhat try to establish the run. But they literally got sacked on 3 of the first 4 drop backs. Can't establish the run on 2nd and 20. Probably don't want to try to establish the run after a 1-yard run on 1st down either.

I don't think anyone has said he's a sure thing. What Bears fans are "acting like" is open to interpretation. But what is clear is he is the most talented QB the Bears have ever had on the roster in their 102 years of existence. But I also think most of us are aware what happened to the last guy that with great talent (Cutler). I don't think Fields is a sure thing, but he's as close to a sure thing as the Bears have ever had And if he fails, I think it will say more about the organization as a whole than him as a talent. Today was exhibit A, sure Garrett had and the Browns D had a great day, blah, blah, blah but, Nagy was 80% of reason why they had such a great day. Fields was bad today. But there was almost literally no chance he could have been anything but. The times he wasn't immediately pressured, he held onto the ball too long. But part of why he held onto the ball too long is because of the shitty route concepts. The Browns, IIRC, were the worst rated secondary in the league thru 2 weeks (I know, they played the Chiefs Week 1), but they were able to sit at the sticks all day because they knew the Bears couldn't block them long enough and even if they didn't they knew Nagy wouldn't call anything other than curl routes.

Yeah, complaining about the run game is akin to complaining about the defense today. They barely had the ball on offense, were behind all day, and were in long down and distances all game with being sacked every series.

I'm not here to form opinions on Fields right now because it's way too early. But I don't get why Bears fans are acting like Fields is some sure thing. I don't think anyone has said he's a sure thing. What Bears fans are "acting like" is open to interpretation. But what is clear is he is the most talented QB the Bears have ever had on the roster in their 102 years of existence. But I also think most of us are aware what happened to the last guy that with great talent (Cutler). I don't think Fields is a sure thing, but he's as close to a sure thing as the Bears have ever had And if he fails, I think it will say more about the organization as a whole than him as a talent.

not going to seriously reply to this because you’re just doing Kyle things but fields is literally one of the fastest people that has ever played quarterback in the nfl Is he playing hurt or something? Maybe he's just never run full speed as a Bear yet. One of the best rushing plays I can remember seeing from him so far is this one at 4:21: It's nice, but it doesn't make me go "holy crap, that guy is one of the fastest NFL QBs of all time" He's literally the 3rd fastest timed QB in the league right now. Lamar Jackson and Kyler Murray are faster (historically add Vick and I can't even think who else), that's literally it. He also had like the 3rd fastest run in the preseason in terms of MPH. There are also several well publicized reasons why he's an elite prospect. If you don't see why, you should flip that rock over and join the rest of civilization.

28 of 70 now. Doesn't include the playoff game vs. the Saints, which only didn't include the 2nd half because of the very last play of the game (29 of 72). Or overtime vs the Saints, where they played 8 1/2 minutes.

I get it. You don't think it's a big deal what Nagy says, you make it clear every time 2 days after the conversation has ended. And yes, he does have every right to be coy with every single thing around the team. But we also have every right to criticize him as his Fangio induced good season followed by a pair of mediocre years which include failure to put an NFL caliber offense on the field hasn't given him the benefit of the doubt. Criticize him for that then. Or, how about this idea......I type whatever I want? And in reality, isn't it all a criticism of his level of success/coaching? If it was clear Trubisky just didn't have the brain to be an NFL starter. If his handpicked Plan B, Nick Foles wasn't jettisoned to 3rd QB because they couldn't find anyone else dumb enough to take his contract after he failed. If Dalton was any different from the previous 2 QBs and was actually putting up more than the exactly 7 points each half of football he has played. He wouldn't be criticized for his QB comments and decisions if he had shown he can make the right QB decisions. The best offensive football under Nagy, came when he didn't even call the plays. So, yes, him saying "Justin will play isn't ready" 1. isn't going to be believed when we here others (including the same offensive coordinator who called the plays during the Trubisky 30ppg run). 2. doesn't make sense to say when he was ready enough to be 1 very early in-season injury away from starting, considering you have another experienced QB on the roster. If Sean Payton said Winston wasn't ready to be a starter and started Taysom, he'd get criticized, but not to the same extent. If Bill Belichick kept trotting Cam Newton out there instead of Mac Jones, well maybe he knows what he's doing. Nagy has given no indication he knows what he's doing, as far as the QB position is concerned. And lying about his reasons doesn't sit right with me that he has the franchise's best interest in mind. And I'm not even a Nagy hater. I think he clearly is a strong leader. I think he needs to be hands off on the playcalling, but I think he's a guy that will get the most out of his players at most other decisions. I think he can evaluate talent and for the most part puts people in the right spots to succeed. But I think the best case scenario would be him bringing in a playcaller he trusts and taking a backseat in that area and is the coach in Chicago for the next 10 years.

I think the point he is trying to make is that Nagy has said, "Fields will start when he's ready and we will all know when that is". He wasn't ready last week with Dalton as an option, so why is he ready this week when Foles is the only other option? The only thing that makes sense is they think Dalton is better than Fields, but Fields is better than Foles. I mean, we know they don't want to waste anymore time on Foles, which is understandable. But a lot of us have questioned why they thought it was OK wasting time on Dalton. Are football coaches allowed to lie to the media?! I get it. You don't think it's a big deal what Nagy says, you make it clear every time 2 days after the conversation has ended. And yes, he does have every right to be coy with every single thing around the team. But we also have every right to criticize him as his Fangio induced good season followed by a pair of mediocre years which include failure to put an NFL caliber offense on the field hasn't given him the benefit of the doubt.

Most famous example are the Purple People eater Vikings defenders with Alan Page and Carl Eller in the HOF. Then you have Chris Doleman and John Randle who overlapped 4-5 years in Minnesota. But yeah, you have a good point here. The most similar to the 2000s Bears is probably the Eagles of the 90s with Reggie White, Jerome Brown, Clyde Simmons, Eric Allen, etc. All really good players who had some all-pro seasons, several pro bowls between them, but White was their Urlacher and is the only 1 in the Hall. Kreutz was probably top 3 at his position for most of his career. But he wasn't a dominant type of player. And yeah, Bears didn't have a 2000 yard rusher or a 4000 yard passer that he blocked for until late in his career in NO. I completely disagree on Hester. I think Atlanta got to see a little bit of what he brought to the table late in his career. Many opponents dreaded kicking to him as well and there's also the rules changes that he influenced (though those were safety influenced as well). He also has very quantifiable statistics with the most return TDs (and non-offensive) TDs in NFL history. We already saw a kicker get in, so I think that opens the door for Hester.

The Peanut Punch was that good though. 44 forced fumbles. 6th all time. Everyone above and within 8 FF of him is a pass rusher that forced fumbles by blindsiding QBs. Closest DB to him is Brian Dawkins, a recent HOF at safety. He's also tied for 15th in passes defensed. Ronde Barber (has a HOF case as well) and Champ Bailey (HOF) are the only exclusive CBs to have more all-time tackles where Tillman is 35th all time in solo tackles. If Tillman could have stayed healthy 2 more years late in his career, he would have likely hit 40-45 INTs and 50 FF (top 3 all time), which would have made him a shoe-in. He's also well respected and an ultimate good person and former Walter Payton man of the year winner and is doing the FBI stuff, which may also play into swaying some votes on the fence.

you're crazy thinking those 2 above Briggs. I'd say Hester, Briggs, Kruetz, Tillman in that order Really? I think opposite order after Hester. Hester, Tillman, Kruetz, Briggs. I don't think the latter 2 really belong. Both are pretty close, IMO, but I don't think quite uniquely good enough for HOF worthiness. Tillman's case will be really helped by the fact that his name is heard every week whenever someone knocks out a fumble. Hester is the pure definition of uniquely good. He should be 1st ballot, IMO.

Huh? I think the point he is trying to make is that Nagy has said, "Fields will start when he's ready and we will all know when that is". He wasn't ready last week with Dalton as an option, so why is he ready this week when Foles is the only other option? The only thing that makes sense is they think Dalton is better than Fields, but Fields is better than Foles. I mean, we know they don't want to waste anymore time on Foles, which is understandable. But a lot of us have questioned why they thought it was OK wasting time on Dalton.