raw

I'm assuming they'd go with another pitcher (Edwards, Patton) and shorten the bench until LaStella or Soler comes back. Still have 4 OFs, plus Bryant. Still have 5 IFs, plus Coghlan. Only other hitters on the 40-man who are not injured are Vogelbach and Candelario. #NailedIt

OMG!!#!!

The Pirates are not the Cubs, though. That's a key factor. If the shoe was on the other foot, the Cubs could go out and spend money or trade minor leaguers to try to close the gap. The Pirates don't have the ability to spend money. They don't have the ability to trade minor leaguers for huge upgrades because they need their minor leaguers to be successful.

Again, who's talking about giving up forever? And the Pirates finished 1 game ahead of the Cubs team that beat them in the playoffs with 4-5 rookies and spent on 3 top 15 FAs, something that the Pirates will never be able to do.

Make the playoffs hasn't been good enough the last 2 years, they've been out after 1 game. To me, it's hard to justify running in mud just to potentially lose your 1 and only playoff game for the next few years (which would be the case if they aren't better than the Cubs). I understand the whole "crapshoot" playoffs thing, but it would be different if we're talking about a division winner, guaranteed a 5-game series. But as long as they're behind the Cubs they face a 50/50 chance of going home after the 163rd game, while they need to beat a Jake Arrieta, Madison Bumgarner, Clayton Kershaw, Matt Harvey, Stephen Strasburg type of pitcher. For a small market team already pushing 90M in payroll and needing to pay arbitration guys in the near future....that's not an ideal scenario, IMO. That's silly. You absolutely keep the pieces in place if you're good enough to be a wild card team. You don't plug the plug and rebuild because you're scared of facing Stephen Strasburg in a wild card game. You don't if you're the Cardinals, who have money and have crapshot themselves to a couple World Series. But if you're the small market, payroll conscious Pirates who have barely anything to show for 3 straight playoff years except an increased payroll.....you think seriously about trading 1 aging piece you have for 3-4 potential pieces that are much younger and cheaper.

Wasn't trying to, but I could see how it could look that way. Was going more for a "they aren't going to win the division, so why pay a guy on the downside of his career 1/5 of their already higher than they'd probably like payroll just because he's a fan favorite" argument.

Make the playoffs hasn't been good enough the last 2 years, they've been out after 1 game. To me, it's hard to justify running in mud just to potentially lose your 1 and only playoff game for the next few years (which would be the case if they aren't better than the Cubs). I understand the whole "crapshoot" playoffs thing, but it would be different if we're talking about a division winner, guaranteed a 5-game series. But as long as they're behind the Cubs they face a 50/50 chance of going home after the 163rd game, while they need to beat a Jake Arrieta, Madison Bumgarner, Clayton Kershaw, Matt Harvey, Stephen Strasburg type of pitcher. For a small market team already pushing 90M in payroll and needing to pay arbitration guys in the near future....that's not an ideal scenario, IMO. so they rebuild to probably be in a very similar spot again in 5 years? i think they're set up very well with lots of good young players for the next few years and i don't see why they should start a tear down because the cubs are insanely dominant right now. lots can change from year to year. Who said anything about a tear down? I'm talking about trading McCutchen, 1 single player....who is the 4th best player on their team this year. I think Liriano and Melancon are a foregone conclusion to be traded if the Pirates are still under .500 and behind 4 teams for the WC a month from now.

yeah...i don't see how you just ignore the wild card and "rebuild" when you have a good team just because there's a likely dominant team for the next few years in your division. I don't see it as a rebuild in the typical sense of the word. They could conceivably be a wildcard contender next year without McCutchen. Marte, Polanco, Kang, and Cervelli are a solid start to an offense. Mercer and Harrison are decent role players. Cole, Taillon and Glasnow are a solid 1-2-3. They've consistently put together a strong bullpen with reclamation projects. Then throw in whatever they could get from McCutchen and/or Liriano and/or Melancon, and you still have a solid team. Granted, they can compete with McCutchen and get a decent amount for the other 2 guys....but McCutchen appears to be going the wrong way as a player and has the most trade value. Add in Cole being arbitration eligible next year, Marte, Polanco and Cervelli's team friendly deals getting less team-friendly starting in the next 2 years.....and it's something that should seriously be considered. And let's not forget who we are talking about. This isn't the Cards, Mets, Nationals, or Dodgers....the other current WC contenders. This is the Pirates who aren't signing top FAs or spending 120M in payroll to try to compete.

Make the playoffs hasn't been good enough the last 2 years, they've been out after 1 game. To me, it's hard to justify running in mud just to potentially lose your 1 and only playoff game for the next few years (which would be the case if they aren't better than the Cubs). I understand the whole "crapshoot" playoffs thing, but it would be different if we're talking about a division winner, guaranteed a 5-game series. But as long as they're behind the Cubs they face a 50/50 chance of going home after the 163rd game, while they need to beat a Jake Arrieta, Madison Bumgarner, Clayton Kershaw, Matt Harvey, Stephen Strasburg type of pitcher. For a small market team already pushing 90M in payroll and needing to pay arbitration guys in the near future....that's not an ideal scenario, IMO.

What do you consider competitive? The Cubs could conceivably finish 20+ games ahead of a decent Pirates team. Do you think the Cubs are going to come that far back to the pack? Do you think the Pirates are going to take that big of a step forward? The question isn't whether or not they could be good. The question is can they be as good as the Cubs. They are going to need Glasnow and Taillon to be really good. They are going to need McCutchen to get back to MVP numbers. They are not going to be able to go out and sign a Jason Heyward or Jon Lester to really make a run for it. I just don't see this as a situation where the Pirates can continue to fade under .500 and say, "oh well, we'll get the Cubs next year!". Teams get better as players develop and get better at the ML level or they add talent. The Pirates have very little developing left to do offensively at least and don't have the ability to add talent other than thru the draft or trades.

I didn't say it was likely. But it makes sense for the Pirates to do. They obviously aren't going to catch the Cubs this year. They have wildcard hopes but they are under .500 and are another loss tonight away from being behind 5 teams to fulfill those hopes. But the bigger issue is that even if Taillon and Glasnow hit the ground running next year (along w/ Cole) they aren't going to be able to add any other pieces to be as good as the Cubs next year or probably the year after. McCutchen is going to be 30 after the year and already seems to be losing his speed, he's also walking less and striking out more than his recent MVP caliber seasons. They aren't going to be able to compete if he's not an MVP caliber player, and if he's not and they don't trade him this year (or this offseason) they'll be stuck w/ the last 2 1/2 years of his contract, which I don't think is ideal for a team like the Pirates if they aren't winning.

I'm assuming they'd go with another pitcher (Edwards, Patton) and shorten the bench until LaStella or Soler comes back. Still have 4 OFs, plus Bryant. Still have 5 IFs, plus Coghlan. Only other hitters on the 40-man who are not injured are Vogelbach and Candelario.

They also adored Barry Bonds, Bobby Bonilla, Jay Bell, Jason Kendall, Aramis Ramirez, Jason Bay, and Neil Walker. Basically, they'd get over it. And the Pirates have never cared all that much about fringy fans. They are not a team that is going to be able to add pieces to keep pace with the Cubs over the next few years. And their philosophy has always been, if they aren't good enough....rebuild. McCutheon's value is never going to be higher than it is right now and his value isn't as high as it once was for the Pirates, as they have Marte, Polanco, Kang, Cervelli, and their pitching staff (with a great PC) to build upon. And between trades of McCutheon, Melancon, and Liriano, they could get a ton of young talent and not have a ton of drop off while also shedding 3 of their top 5 salary commitments.

They've only lost 6 games by more than 2. 9-9 in 1-run games 6-5 in 2-run games 31-6 in games decided by 3 or more.

They've only lost 6 games by more than 2.

Eh, they aren't horrible, confidence diminishing peripherals. Lack of Ks are concerning, but he's been tougher to hit (BABIP luck). 6.5 K/9 to 4.15 BB/9 and a 5.19 xFIP = pretty damn bad Yeah, but his ERA is 2.39 and he's 3-0 with 0 blown saves. Eh, i got nothing. Didn't look up his xFIP.

Or the entire season notwithstanding. He's been pretty good. Only given up runs in 5 outings this year. not if you look at his peripherals Eh, they aren't horrible, confidence diminishing peripherals. Lack of Ks are concerning, but he's been tougher to hit (BABIP luck).

Or the entire season notwithstanding. He's been pretty good. Only given up runs in 5 outings this year.

Ugh. This reeks of DC where ump keeps a guy alive on a questionable non-strike call and Strop gets charged with a soft run. C'mon Travis.

The one time he doesn't try to lift the ball?

horsefeathers the closer, Zobrist. horsefeathers him good.

Ross game Ross season.

Strop is so good.

David Ortiz wants in on this conversation.

GRANDPA! PUT THIS MAN IN THE ALL STAR GAME!