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Is this actually news? Wasn't it dusty repeating the Rothschild jargon that he doesn't expect him to be ready? Shouldn't we wait for medical staff to give us reports?

They were both rated in the top-20 of the absolutely loaded Southern league. They were 2-3 in ERA for the Southern league. They both have pretty good stuff, Pinto has a little better stuff, Nolasco has great control. Everyone talks about Chad Billingsley of LA like he's an amazing prospect, and Pinto and Nolasco both put up similar if not better numbers at the same level(albeit a year older than Billingsley). There's no justification for saying that they "never would've made our rotation". They were 2 of our best pitching prospects, and aside from Guzman, they were the closest to the Majors with Wood and Maddux's contracts expiring. I understand their performance at West Tenn, but almost all projections have them as #3 and #4 starters for their CEILINGS. IF that's the highest they are projected to go, we aren't really losing all that much and we're improving, albeit, only for a year a position that we were DREADFUL at last year.

You weren't satisfied with 2001-2003? Where does this 6 years crap come from?

Yes, the organization bears no blame in how they handled Kerry last year. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: "Hi I'm Kerry Wood, I want to remain injuried and pitch in meaningless games to screw my next season, and possibly my career up, just to piss off Cubs fans that have held hope in me" I never said they didn't....and I'm fairly sure I could have done with out the eye rolls...the organizations use of him doesn't change the fact that he's pitched 2 full seasons out of the last 8. Kerry's mechanics have more to do with his injury problems than his use. And he should just go tinker around with the mechanics he's used since he was boy, on his own, with absolutely no direction from anyone, so that his arm completely falls off and he has no future at all? MAn I wish Steve Stone never opened his stupid mouth about the "mechanics". IT's like a catch phrase now. Sorry, but I don't want Wood just tinkiering around with his own mechanics, he's not a trainer, a physician or a pitching coach. If there are problems, then someone else should/ should have help(ed) him, somewhere along the line. Kerry is one of the biggest gamers, out there, and I respect him a ton. It's a shame what's happening to him. I don't think he wants to make 12 million and not help this team. His committment and dedication to the Cubs should not be up for debate. I don't think he wants to be injured, it pisses me off when people blame kerry for his injuries.

Why do people think Nolasco and Pinto are world beaters? Their ceilings are #3 and #4 starters. Those are a dime a dozen. Sure we should have gotten more for them, but when everyone knows our weaknesses they are going to get more from us than we will for them. Pierre will be productive, we gave up too much for a one-year rental, but it's not like these guys are Clemens and Willis. Is it just hardcore Cubs fans that overvalue EVERY SINGLE prospect in the organization, or does every teams hardcore fanbase do it? It seems like if you talk to NSBB fans, every single West Tenn player is a bonafide stud.

I've never doubted that if up to Hendry the youngsters would be playing, but unfortunately Hendry does not meddle at all in who plays and gives free reign to Dumbsty.

Yes, the organization bears no blame in how they handled Kerry last year. :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: "Hi I'm Kerry Wood, I want to remain injuried and pitch in meaningless games to screw my next season, and possibly my career up, just to piss off Cubs fans that have held hope in me"

You continually make me laugh at the stupidity of considering wins a marker for the efficacy and success of a pitcher. IF you were smart, you'd rip on his lack of IP as more of an indictment of his mediocrity, than his win totals. Because I'll take the 14 win 2003 Kerry Wood EVERY year for the next 10 years if he puts up those peripherals. What are you going to say when he goes somewhere else and becomes a perennial ace? That you were incredibly short-sighted? If so then continue on with your ridiculous, ignorant ramblings about how to judge starting pitchers. Must be all those characters from the Score rubbing off on you, at least I can only hope so.

Why the mother****** g** damn hell did they have him pitching out of the bull pen when they were out of the race, nevertheless a DAY BEFORE HE WAS GOING TO HAVE SURGERY? Everyone who had anything to do with this decision should be fired immediately.

Yes, at least to me it was, because I wasn't going to read through 30 pages (non-premium) of bitching about Pierre's slappy tendencies, lack of an arm, overrated OBP, and overglorification of Nolasco and Pinto to find out when a news conference was.

For a second, because this came after a Macias post, I thought you were referring to him, and not Nomar. I was about to have you committed, involuntarily to the nearest mental facility. For your own good, of course.

Wow, I want to see something done but we shouldn't need three highly rated prospects for a one-year rental from a team selling their team for spare parts. Again, Cub fan myopia. "Highly-rated prospects?" Here's Rotoworld's take (boldface is mine)-- The Chicago Tribune believes the Cubs are offering pitchers Sergio Mitre, Ricky Nolasco and Renyel Pinto to the Marlins for Juan Pierre. Not bad, though the Marlins could try to do better. If acquired, Mitre would go right into Florida's rotation. The other two should probably begin the year in Triple-A. Dec. 7 - 12:53 am et Yep, Cub fans wearing Harry's glasses might be a more accurate phrase. Like Choi, and Cruz, and Hill and countless other crappy prospects traded away when Cubs fans thought they were sooo good. Just make the trade and get someone who will be guaranteed to be our leadoff guy and then gocus on SS/RF. None of the pitchers mentioned have a higher ceiling than #3 and that's only one of them perhaps. They aren't as good as we think they are. If I'm wrong, I'll eat a lot of crow.

I have a question for EVERYONE who is saying too much talent is being given up. Granted this is absolutely true for a one year rental, however, if other teams know your sever weakness (see sub .300 OBP for the leadoff spot) then aren't they going to realize that THEY have the power seat. That the trades will favor them? That we aren't going to be able to just steal something? I just don't get how you think other GM's would voluntarily low ball themselves when they KNOW we need a leadoff/high OBP guy and that's what we are going after.

I thought rotoworld said the Sarloos trade fell through, and the Cubs are the top suitors for Bradley?

Curious to knwo what his Road/Home splits are. Since coming to Florida his AVG has been 20 or more points worse away from Pro Player, and his OBP and SLG have followed. Do you have his stats at Wrigley? 71 AB .282 .354 Not bad, but a small sample size. Intuitively when he learns to play the Wrigley grass, those numbers would get better. I bet we'd see a .360 + OBP out of him next year, which would mean alot of opportuniiteis for Lee, and Aram to knock him in.

he didn't have an argument, so it's impossible for me to twist it. his 'argument' was 'you gotta take chances'. my argument was that you didn't...there are other CF on the market and the cubs have other leadoff possibilities. he hasn't came back w/ anything for that other than 'pierre could be good again'. i'm not comparing gonzalez to pierre, i was just making an argument like he did...w/ nothing backing it up other than 'you gotta take chances'. Fair enough, but I interpreted his argument to mean that Pierre has put up .370 before, so he could do it again, especially with that long Wrigley grass. That is at least based in some thought process rather than lets just take a chance. If he didn't mean that, then I appologize. I took it as prior history suggests type of argument.

Curious to knwo what his Road/Home splits are. Since coming to Florida his AVG has been 20 or more points worse away from Pro Player, and his OBP and SLG have followed. Do you have his stats at Wrigley?

I don't think that is the issue. The issue is Juan Pierre and his value. I also think other teams know what we need so they can take advantage of us more. Whenever teams know about your shortcomings, they have the advantage we have to pay a little more to get it. The Phillies know it too and if smart, would ask for more than nolasco/pinto because they know they have the trading advantage.

Couldn't we get Pierre for Center and Obtain Bradley for RF. He can play right if i'm not mistaken. Get Lugo for SS move Cedeno/Walker to 2nd and call it a day.

And what if it's .326 like it was last year? That's the chances you have to take. At least it's about .200 points better than Patterson right? ;) why is that a chance you have to take? that makes no sense. He's posted .378, .374, and .361 too. and a .332. what's your point? yeah, he could be a decent leadoff guy, but there are only a few one year rentals that i give up the top 3 minor league arms for -- and slappy mcgee ain't one of them. and unless you're finding a way to get dunn, abreu or manny (w/o your top minor league arms, who you traded for your dreamboat, once in a lifetime, 'prototypical leadoff guy, mind you), this team isn't going anywhere next year anyway. so what's the point in giving up the farm for a guy that can help you win 81 games instead of 79? Sorry you can't comprehend my point (taking chances). Pretty simple concept. This team isn't going anywhere next year?? That's a great attitude. gee, i hope the cubs can fight through my bad attitude to win the world series next year. i don't get your point because you don't have one. all you said, was, 'you have to take chances'. and i say, no you don't. you don't hav anything to back up your 'gotta take chances' claim. should the cubs trade hill, pinto, paw, pie, nolasco and everybody in the system for alex gonzalez? no? well, you gotta take chances, and that's the extent of my argument. i win. For Christsakes that's not what hes saying. Really convenient to twist it like that. He's saying taking a chance on Pierre isn't bad because he's had at least 3 .370 OBP years. Some people and their ridiculous arguments. :roll: If I checked last Agone has never given you a glimpse at a .370 OBP so that would be a foolhardy chance taken. Pierre has done it several times. Now if you just don't like Pierrre, you just don't like him, but I can't stand seeing people twist others arguments that blatently.

And what if it's .326 like it was last year? That's the chances you have to take. At least it's about .200 points better than Patterson right? ;) why is that a chance you have to take? that makes no sense. He's posted .378, .374, and .361 too. and a .332. what's your point? yeah, he could be a decent leadoff guy, but there are only a few one year rentals that i give up the top 3 minor league arms for -- and slappy mcgee ain't one of them. and unless you're finding a way to get dunn, abreu or manny (w/o your top minor league arms, who you traded for your dreamboat, once in a lifetime, 'prototypical leadoff guy, mind you), this team isn't going anywhere next year anyway. so what's the point in giving up the farm for a guy that can help you win 81 games instead of 79? Don't you think calling giving up Nolasco and Pinto "giving up the farm" is a wee bit dramatic? Neither is even a top 5 Cub prospect, maybe not even top 10.

Murton could hit 2nd I think. He has high OBP too, but then doesn't Cedeno, as well? Cedeno's isn't as high's as murtons I don't believe, but I could be talking out of my ass.

It actually wasn't the entire article but I get your point. Main points... 1) Mark Prior for Bobby Abreu. Will not happen. 2) "the only pitchers the Cubs are interested in trading are relievers or prospects. " 3) "minimal interest in Aubrey Huff to fill their right-field vacancy" 4) another quote - According to one team that inquired about Pie, the Cubs "don't have very many untouchables -- but he's one." I don't know how the Cubs can hope for a good OF bat w\o moving Pie but we shall see. Would you believe you could trade: Hundley Hawkins A.Gone Brendan Harris/Francis Beltran Bobby Hill Choi And get significant to all star production back for many of them? Hendry has a good track record of trading. But none of those players were the quality of Abreu at the time of the deal. Lee and Ramirez had still just shown glimpses of what they've become. Nomar was an injury problem with 2 months left on his contract. Karros and Grudz were bad, and I sure hope Hendry isn't targeting players of that caliber. I don't see an Abreu or Dunn deal happening without dealing Pie and/or Hill. But I agree that the Cubs could easily get guys like Wilkerson, Bradley, and other names that have been mentioned. WHAT!?! The most impressive off all of his trades: Hundley for Grudz and Karros and CASH!?! Karros and Grudz were bad? From what I remember, Grudz was surprisingly good, and Karros was mildly effective when used in a platoon. I mean, the trade was an absolute flecing all on its own, but Hendry had to rub it in and get cash with the deal. I still can't believe it. The day it was made I laugh/cried myself to sleep. Also, didn't we net Murton in the trade that got us Nomar? Every single trade that Hendry has made has been gold, unless there is one that I'm forgetting. ...now, just about every single signing that Hendry has made has been abysmal. I agree with you almost completely though there were a FEW bad trades - namely only when the player was devalued by the Cubs first Sosa Farnsworth Cruz And then the Alfonseca/Clement deal but no one knew Willis would be an absolute stud, he was an afterthought.

It actually wasn't the entire article but I get your point. Main points... 1) Mark Prior for Bobby Abreu. Will not happen. 2) "the only pitchers the Cubs are interested in trading are relievers or prospects. " 3) "minimal interest in Aubrey Huff to fill their right-field vacancy" 4) another quote - According to one team that inquired about Pie, the Cubs "don't have very many untouchables -- but he's one." I don't know how the Cubs can hope for a good OF bat w\o moving Pie but we shall see. Would you believe you could trade: Hundley Hawkins A.Gone Brendan Harris/Francis Beltran Bobby Hill Choi And get significant to all star production back for many of them? Hendry has a good track record of trading. But none of those players were the quality of Abreu at the time of the deal. Lee and Ramirez had still just shown glimpses of what they've become. Nomar was an injury problem with 2 months left on his contract. Karros and Grudz were bad, and I sure hope Hendry isn't targeting players of that caliber. I don't see an Abreu or Dunn deal happening without dealing Pie and/or Hill. But I agree that the Cubs could easily get guys like Wilkerson, Bradley, and other names that have been mentioned. Yea I agree but CFICT merely said a GOOD of bat. Not a superstar OF bat.

We have Social Forum, and Fantasy sports forum, but getting a non-Cubs Sports Discussion Forum might be a nice addition? Whaddyasay?