XZero771679666304

To be fair, BBB didn't really say that would be sufficient. He said that's all he'd be willing to give. If that's all he'd be willing to give, he better be prepared to not get anything.

Losing Damon puts the Sox offense in a precarious position. Trading Manny for anything less than a player who will bring nearly equal production would decimate it. The only way anyone is going to get Ramirez is to give them a proven big stick.

Of course we are an improved team. Adding Eyre and Howry probably adds at least 5-7 wins by stabilizing our disaster of a pen. If Dempster pitches at all like he did last year, you can add a few more wins over last year because of the early season closing debacle. Even if Wood doesn't contribute any more than he did last year, the rotation is bound to be better, unless Prior gets smoked by another line drive. We will almost certainly get better roduction in LF. RF will be about the same. Even if Pierre only contributes a .330 OBP, that will add a lot more runs to the offensive output as compared to last year's black hole at the top of he lineup. We will get better production from SS if Dusty plays Cedeno. We'll see what happens with 2B. Hendry has done a poor job for sure, but this team is at least 10 wins better than last year's already. At least. And there will be more to come, for better or worse, I'm sure.

THe only way that happens is if Murton is dealt, IMO. Hendry doesn't want to trade Hill, so that makes Huff unlikely. I can't see the Sox trading any of the OF's now. I think the OF not is the opening day OF. Sadly, it is better than the one we had last year.

What does a 5 tool player have to do with a 3 starter. 5 tool players are much more rare than #3 starters. And what are examples of #3 starters the Cubs could get for Walker? Are you talking somebody like Kris Benson? A highly compensated pitcher with a dubious injury history and highly unimpressive results. Are we talking Trachsel? I think you got to be more specific than just the generic #3 starter, which can mean a lot of things. Walker gone means Neifi everyday, Neifi everyday in this already weakened lineup means the pitching would have to be absolutely outstanding if the Cubs want to win a lot. #3 starters are, by definition, not outstanding. And a 3/27m #3 starter (the recent going rate) doesn't come close to equaling the value of a 1/2.5m Walker at 2B, especially in this offense. Have to be a package deal cause Walker's not even worth a #3. I was just hypothetically speaking, but will look around and find someone who needs a 2b. Adam Eaton might have been nice. So you'd rather have Neifi and Adam Eaton over Walker and Jerome Williams? Do you realize just how bad Neifi Perez is? I think you're really undervaluing Walker. I said "might." I need to look @ Eaton's #'s, but am a little busy @ work & my computer crawls. Livan Hernandez & Derek Lowe come to mind as a couple "3's" who may be available. Of course, a 3rd team would need to be involved as LA & Washington have2b's already. I'd take Hernandez & Nefster over Williams and Walker. Of course, if Williams is out of the rotation that means Woods a starter. That's 1 helluva 1 through 4 (Z, Prior, Wood & Livan).... Williams > Eaton. Walker >>>>>>> Perez. Not much to think about. Hernandez + Neifi would be better than Williams and Walker, if only because Hernendez will eat a ton of innings, and is a better hitter than Neifi.

No way does Neifi start over Walker. It's not happening. And what does 5 tool player have to do with anything? Corey Patterson is a 5 tool player, do you think he should play 2nd? How can a guy who can't hit or take a pitch be considered 5 tool?? When you hear the term 5 tool player, taking a pitch is not one of the tools being referred to. Just trust me on that. Figured they factored that in by now. Dude can't hit for average or power, so there's two tools that are nowhere to be found. Oh, he can hit for power. I'm sure the ratio of XBH to the times he actually lays the bat on the ball is quite nice. Corey's got a ton of power. Introducing the bat to the ball is the problem. As for Walker, you can say he i a difference maker when you compare him with Neifi. Maybe not on most teams, but Todd is Babe Ruth compared to Perez. We are talking about a huge performance gap between the two.

While I agree with the crap vs crap point, I don't see how this is a downgrade? Defensively jones is better and your numbers seem to illustrate that offensively jones is also better? Going fom Burnitz to Jones is a lateral move to a player who actually might get better.

Plus he's athletic and can catch the ball, so Hendry should be all over him. My only fear is that Dusty would play him over Murton.

Didn't Howard Johnson give us trouble?

Errrrr. Yeah, and Vegas is a good place to get over a gambling problem. :P

This is a message board. When Hendry signed Nomar people were happy. When Hendry got Barrett people were happy. When Hendry traded Sosa people were happy. When Hendry signed Burnitz people where unhappy. It is completly unreasonable for people to be happy about Jones given his career arc, the Cubs payroll, and need. A little optimism does go a long way. Blindness however, only gets one to walk into walls over and over again. Being unhappy about the way the offseason has gone is one thing, but the level of melodramatic overreaction and blanket criticism in recent weeks has been ridiculous. Sure Jones sucks, and it is disappointing we didn't do better. Hendry has done a poor job, and I think we could do better than him, too. The upcoming season is going to be harder than it needed to be. But people are dismissing even the hint of optimism as lunacy and declaring Hendry the antichrist and the 2006 season as dead already. It's just silly. It's like mob panic. The answer is simple then. Instead of complaining don't open or read any thread that contains things you don't like. No one is making you open a thread or read a post. And no one is making anyone come here and vent. When people start getting antagonized for being optimistic, and the hyper pessimism is in nearly every thread, that "you don't have to read it" stuff goes right out the window. Everyone here is entitled to a decent atmosphere.

This is a message board. When Hendry signed Nomar people were happy. When Hendry got Barrett people were happy. When Hendry traded Sosa people were happy. When Hendry signed Burnitz people where unhappy. It is completly unreasonable for people to be happy about Jones given his career arc, the Cubs payroll, and need. A little optimism does go a long way. Blindness however, only gets one to walk into walls over and over again. Being unhappy about the way the offseason has gone is one thing, but the level of melodramatic overreaction and blanket criticism in recent weeks has been ridiculous. Sure Jones sucks, and it is disappointing we didn't do better. Hendry has done a poor job, and I think we could do better than him, too. The upcoming season is going to be harder than it needed to be. But people are dismissing even the hint of optimism as lunacy and declaring Hendry the antichrist and the 2006 season as dead already. It's just silly. It's like mob panic.

Aubrey Huff? Cliff Floyd? Wilkerson? Nixon? Bradley? So you were ready to give up Hill for Huff? Floyd may not even be available. As for Wilkerson, apparently, the Washington GM really values Soriano. Who could the Cubs have matched with? Nixon (See Floyd) As for Bradley, it sounds like Coletti didn't want to deal w/ the Cubs and the Cubs would have had to give up a real good prospect for him. I wanted either Vlad, Sheffield or Ichiro, but just cause the Cubs want someone doesn't mean another team will throw them in the Cubs lap. From what I heard, the Mets told the Cubs that Floyd was not available. You are right, the Red Sox have an OF shortage and likely wouldn't have dealt Nixon even before Damon left. Bowden wanted Cedeno for Wilkerson, and you summed up the Bradley problem.

I find this to be the most offensive post in the thread. Far worse than any f-bomb. The guy shows up and makes a post that he obviously spent a lot of time on, just trying to start discussion. I don't agree with his points either, but that's no reason to respond with a childish, overreacting post and say the entire thread should be locked because he mentioned the words "clutch" and "leader." I'd be pissed off if I were him too. I rarely find a thread here at NSBB that doesn't degenerate into high school squabbling, but this probably takes the cake. And a mod chastised him for posting it. Like his opinion or not, he's welcome to post it. It's fine to debate players, take different positions, and work to persuade others that your position is correct -- that's the lifeblood of a message board. Saying a thread is "ridiculous and should be locked" is not welcome. The part of the post that came before it is fine, but the last line is insulting, intolerant and condescending. Just because some people are in an overreative frenzy does not give them the right to insinuate that an opposing viewpoint is not welcome and devoid of validity.

He has played 65 games in RF, and his defensive numbers look pretty good (for what that's worth). His OPS is also 50 points or so higher in day games.

Was non-tendered. He has a .885 OPS agains LHP over the past three years. Would he make a good platoon mate for Jones?

I was talking offense. C - Barrett >>>>Miller 1B - Lee >>>>>>>>> Karros/Choi/Simon 2B - Walker > Grudz Grudz had a career year in 2003, and Walker has a comparable OBP and a lot more power) SS - Cedeno > KGon 3B - ARam >>> Bellhorn/Harris/2003 ARam LF - Murton < Alou (though Alou had an average year at best) CF - Pierre = Lofton RF - Jones << Sosa You remember the KGon-Miller black hole? Ugh. No more of that. We don't know what the 2006 bench will look like, and there are good bench bats out there to be taken.

I could buy Jones having a down year because of external factors, these things happen. However, there's no discernable difference in production between the rest of his career and '05. He was performing the same as he always was. Not to nitpick a generally good post, but Jones' 2005 numbers were significantly below his career averages pretty well across the board, aside from XBH. His OPS was about 30 points below his career norm.

Woah, woah, woah... I think JJ sucks. The Cubs 06 are just highly underrated on here right now. I agree that Jones sucks, and I also agree that people are being ridiculously pessimistic. I am not a blue Kool-aid drinker, but a lot of people here are reminding me of lemmings right now. Four keys for the Cubs in 06: 1) Prior pitches atleast 180 innings 2) DLee has a .950ish OPS 3) Demp is still a solid closer. 4) They keep Walker If those 3 things happen the Cubs will be very very good. If all those thing don't happen? They will still be pretty solid. The key is really the starting pitching. If Kerry come back in may and gives us 150+ innings, Prior gives us 200 innings (which I believe he will), and Z is Z, we will be competitive. People bemoan the offense, but if the season started tomorrow we would have amuch better offense than the 2003 NLCS squad did. Hell, adding Eyre and Howry to our train wreck of a BP will improve the team by 5-10 games alone.

a team w/ a 100 mil payroll shouldn't need platoon buddies for their corner OFer's. Good in theory, but what RF was out there that's far superior? Unfortunately, Giles & Abreu were pipedreams. Bring on Rondell White. YES If we're forced into this crap, let's at least have some depth. White or C. Wilson should start on this team, but we should get them even though they won't because they aren't "athletic". [rant]What bloody good does it do to be athletic in baseball? Is being athletic going to get you more hits? more extra base hits? More K's pitching? No, they don't do any of that. The only thing you could remotely claim it helps you is on a small handful of defensive plays, and I'm sure glad we sacrificed a vast majority of our offensive output trying to look good while we glide to the ball in the field.[/rant] BTW, that was directed at Hendry's comments, not at anyone else. Really, I think if Hendry adds a player like Eduardo Perez, White or Craig Wilson and keeps Walker and Patterson, I think we'll be all right. That is as long as the pitching comes through. After hearing Hendry tonight after the Jones signing, CPatt is gone. He basically said the only reason they tendered him a contract was because teams weren't willing to deal for him because of the possibility of him being non-tendered. He also said he will do whats best for the Cubs first(yea I believe that :roll: ) and whats best for Corey 2nd. So I think the probability of Corey being on the Cubs next year is very very slim. Yeah, you're right. But I think the chances of Walker being dealt are dwindling, thankfully. And if the Cubs interest in Perez turns into a signing, we'll be OK.

Woah, woah, woah... I think JJ sucks. The Cubs 06 are just highly underrated on here right now. I agree that Jones sucks, and I also agree that people are being ridiculously pessimistic. I am not a blue Kool-aid drinker, but a lot of people here are reminding me of lemmings right now.

I'm not sure about the award, but they gave up a good pospect. I also heard something about Coletti not wanting to deal with the Cubs.

a team w/ a 100 mil payroll shouldn't need platoon buddies for their corner OFer's. Good in theory, but what RF was out there that's far superior? Unfortunately, Giles & Abreu were pipedreams. Bring on Rondell White. YES If we're forced into this crap, let's at least have some depth. White or C. Wilson should start on this team, but we should get them even though they won't because they aren't "athletic". [rant]What bloody good does it do to be athletic in baseball? Is being athletic going to get you more hits? more extra base hits? More K's pitching? No, they don't do any of that. The only thing you could remotely claim it helps you is on a small handful of defensive plays, and I'm sure glad we sacrificed a vast majority of our offensive output trying to look good while we glide to the ball in the field.[/rant] BTW, that was directed at Hendry's comments, not at anyone else. Really, I think if Hendry adds a player like Eduardo Perez, White or Craig Wilson and keeps Walker and Patterson, I think we'll be all right. That is as long as the pitching comes through.

God I hope the Cubs keep Walker now. We need that OBP.