Soul

The Stros always were better than us. It took them awhile to get going, but we've seen them do this before. Occasionally they'll flame out a little in September (like in '03). I don't think we'll be anywhere near them when those final games are played head to head though.

But aren't you implying that Ryno was a hero, because many Cubs fans definitely treated him like one? Look, there have always been a few clean guys in baseball, guys who really are or were heroes. The same is true today. The only difference is that there is now a testing policy that attempts to weed out the liars and cheaters, so they appear more visible than they really are. No, I don't think the implication that Ryno is a "hero" is there. Honestly, how do you think Sandberg would react if you went up to him and said "you are my hero"? I betcha he wouldn't really know what to do. He probably would feel rather uncomfortable with it. Payton would probably be the same way. This is such a confusing topic as far as I'm concerned. Everyone attaches different definitions to the words that are being bandied about: Hero, Role Model, Criminal, Cheater, Good-Guy, Bad-Guy. And the definitions keep changing, too. How does Pete Rose look now? Before he was the Universal Criminal of all baseball history---the leper, the outcast, the poster child for crash n' burn. Now you've got guys like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmiero ready to be launched into the Hall of Fame. Who is the poster child for "cheating" now? Probably not Rose anymore. For me, a hero is someone who sacrifices his life to save others. And I'm sticking with it :) Yeah, that eliminates all sports "heroes" from the equation, but hey. There are plenty of other superlatives we can use for Hall of Famers like Sandberg. Okay, you have me there, I'll agree on the fact that baseball players and all professional athletes are not "heroes", but they certainly are role models. And from the days where Honus Wagner wouldn't let his baseball card be on something as disgusting as ciggarettes and then Ty Cobb who would punch fans to today when you have Raphy Palmiero juicing up and really good guys like Derrek Lee (IMO), there are always role models and villians. Nothing has changed as so many people claim. Yes, there still can be role models today in My opinion. We can only wish more youngsters would look to Ryno for guidance than Terrell Owens. Sadly, it isn't so...

But aren't you implying that Ryno was a hero, because many Cubs fans definitely treated him like one? Look, there have always been a few clean guys in baseball, guys who really are or were heroes. The same is true today. The only difference is that there is now a testing policy that attempts to weed out the liars and cheaters, so they appear more visible than they really are. No, I don't think the implication that Ryno is a "hero" is there. Honestly, how do you think Sandberg would react if you went up to him and said "you are my hero"? I betcha he wouldn't really know what to do. He probably would feel rather uncomfortable with it. Payton would probably be the same way. This is such a confusing topic as far as I'm concerned. Everyone attaches different definitions to the words that are being bandied about: Hero, Role Model, Criminal, Cheater, Good-Guy, Bad-Guy. And the definitions keep changing, too. How does Pete Rose look now? Before he was the Universal Criminal of all baseball history---the leper, the outcast, the poster child for crash n' burn. Now you've got guys like Mark McGwire, Barry Bonds, and Rafael Palmiero ready to be launched into the Hall of Fame. Who is the poster child for "cheating" now? Probably not Rose anymore. For me, a hero is someone who sacrifices his life to save others. And I'm sticking with it :) Yeah, that eliminates all sports "heroes" from the equation, but hey. There are plenty of other superlatives we can use for Hall of Famers like Sandberg.

Best definition so far. Another way to put it is when the home team wins and the game ends with less than 3 outs tallied in the last inning. OK. That's a new definition though. That's broader than it used to be. The definition above works for when the home team singles in the winning run in the 9th. And "walk-off" was never, ever used in that case before.

I don't think we suck. 8) Somebody would have to explain to me how & why Houston & Florida are going to collapse before I would see a Cub Wild Card berth though.

At the risk of sounding like a jerk (probably too late to try and mitigate that anyway :)), there should be no suprise at this from anyone. I had this nailed from the day Raffy lied to Congress. All you had to do was crunch the numbers (in fact, I posted them a few weeks ago). Raffy's # of ABs per HR went down at a sizeable clip right after he met Jose Canseco. He never hit for that kind of power in the major leagues----until he met Jose. It was easy to see through his smiling face and perfectly groomed mustache. But I still said he deserved the Hall of Fame because he had never been caught. Now he has. Therefore, I will say this: if Raffy's in, pony up for Pete Rose. Otherwise baseball's Hall of Fame is nothing but a sham. After seeing one of the game's *REAL* good guys get enshrined into the halls of immortality this weekend, I don't want to see favoritism or an uneven hand. Therefore, Raffy should be OUT. No further questions should be asked. Keep the Hall for the pure baseball greats. If that means kicking a few out, then so be it. Caught cheating = out. It's amazing to me how trusting you folks are. But then again, I'm a pretty jaded person so I sort of envy the goodwill many of you have. Just know this: these guys are baseball players & businessmen. Not heroes. They will lie & lie again until the cows come home to protect their empires.

Somebody call CNN 8)

Booing is part of the game, and every fan's right. Yes, even if your best pitcher just threw a no-hitter----some fool has the right to boo. If Ramirez hits a granny that wins us a classic battle, there might be a drunken waste-case out there with a Cub jersey on who forgot what color he's wearing. And he's booing. And he's stupid. And it's his right as a fan. What's the matter with you people anyway? Since when do we become offended by boos? :roll: When did baseball become a 12-step program for cuddly-wuddlies? :?

Yeah. That's revenge for all those ridiculous years put up by the likes of Womack and Vina

That, my fellow Cubbie fans, is what is known as a quality win. Man. How cool was that game? =D>

I knew we'd split with the Reds. Just knew it.

I can't believe some folks on this board were questioning his ability earlier in the year.

That's nothing. Braves fans can't cheer or boo anything until the scoreboard or the PA system tell 'em to !! did the Braves actually start the tomahawk chop, or did they steal that too? No tomahawk chops until the drums started beating. Pavlov would have been proud !! Braves stole it from the Seminoles. 'Noles have been doing it forever.

Yet Dusty dispatched Cox & his Braves in the playoffs rather handily... How do you figure? Both times they faced each other in the playoffs, Bakers squad won in the deciding game. So what are you arguing for? Isn't that what I just said?

Yet Dusty dispatched Cox & his Braves in the playoffs rather handily...

LMAO! Freakin' awesome!

Z makes me smile. Nice effort El Toro

Haha, that was one of the best Cub games I ever watched. Was that the game in which Ricky Gutierrez had an "interesting time on the basepaths, but eventually scored against the Rockies? I think so. That was the one where the final play was grounder with the bases loaded, the Rockies threw it all over the place, and Guttierez finally sprinted for home and just beat the throw to score the winning run. I wanna say Girardi hit the grounder. I believe so. Gads, that was a wild game :D

Worst home plate Umping since Angel Hernandez in the infamous "Mongo" game. Burnie HR ding dong!

I understand that the starting pitching pulls us up some. But hey man---are you 100% sure we're going to keep this rotation intact for the entire 2nd half? And if so, what makes you think that? It's been one injury after another with these guys. Maybe they just don't have what it takes to be consistent major-league starters. I'm glad they're all pitching at the same time again. But let's be realistic. The history shows one or more will go down again. Wow Soul. You are a negative nancy. I hope everyone around here isn't that way! No, many try to keep a positive outlook. However, all of us are required to refrain from statements that attack the person instead of the argument. I know it was in good fun, just giving you a heads up. Check out the Member Guidelines or contact a Moderator or Admin if you have any problems. Doh, I forgot the most important part, Welcome to the Forum! I don't mind being called a "negative nancy" because honestly, I *am* pretty negative about this ballclub right now. I didn't consider it a personal insult. I mean, I've seen much much worse in terms of talent. And we've all been through years where the All-Star break brings a ballclub 20 under .500 and woefully out of contention. This isn't *THAT* bad. We've got some talent. There are some positive aspects to the club. I don't see a real contender here, though. That doesn't mean I'm not rooting for them---'cuz I am, believe me.

dusty? is that you? i don't see how you can possibly say greenberg is being "thrown out there" on a regular basis - he had one PA and went to the DL! murton is the only one who's got anything resembling playing time, and that's only because we've been up against a bunch of lefties lately. as soon as the righties come back, it's hollandsworth all the time. LOL. Oh yeah WOW. Can't wait for Holly to come back and save us :roll: huh? do you think i'm happy that hollandsworth will be starting practically full-time or something? I kinda thought that's what you were getting at, yeah. Sorry :oops:

There's not real evidence to back up the idea of Raffy juicing. From 1988 - 1994, he slowly and annually ('92 his only real hiccup) raised his AB's, Walks, HR's, RBI's, OBP, and AVG and kept his K rate steady. He peaked when most players do, 5-7 years into the bigs. He simply learned how to play well and did it for over 15 years. His biggest weakness is his inability to find a winning team to play on. Raffy was improving before Jose was around, and continued long after he left. He never had a dramatic size shift, and his increases and decreases in production were right along where age and experience would have it. If he juiced, he's brilliant for perfectly timing it. :roll: Not really. The most Raffy ever hit was 26 before Jose arrived in Texas. And it was with 631 ABs. That's 1 HR every 24.25 ABs. Not exactly lightning, my dear Watson. Canseco arrives in 1992, during probably Raffy's worst season as a pro. 22 HRs in 608 ABs (.268 avg). That's 1 HR every 27.6 ABs. With his average dipping and the production falling off, Texas signed Jose as an insurance policy. It worked, but in ways they could not have imagined. In 1993, after an entire offseason having known Jose Canseco, Rafael Palmiero became a different ballplayer. He hit 37 HRs in 597 ABs. That's 1 HR every 16ABs. An unbelievable improvement that has never been seen in baseball outside Barry Bonds---who was totally clean, right? :roll: A brief hiccup in 1994 (1 HR every 18.9ABs during the strike season---still much better than before) and the rest is history. Au contraire---it's very good *anectodal* evidence that Raffy used steroids. Certainly not enough to go after the guy in any legal sense, of course. Certainly I wouldn't claim it to be proof in any way. But then again, we're not even going to uncover the total truth about admitted users like Jason Giambi, so fans are left to wonder about nearly all ballplayers. And the case against Raffy is, by comparison, stronger than most other ballplayers. Remember, not all steroid users develop into gorillas---it depends on how often you use and how you work out afterwards. And not all users develop facial acne, either. Sosa obviously did, but Canseco did not. It's a common side effect, but not universal.

The pre-game fare must consist of something Habenero: http://seeds.thompson-morgan.com/us/en/product/949/1?SA=1113

He changed a few shirt sizes right around the time he joined the Texas Rangers. Who showed up at around the same time? You guessed it, Jose Canseco. This season he has obviously lost quite a bit of weight, right along with Sosa, Giambi, and others. But he never got caught, so it doesn't matter. His power numbers began when he met Canseco, and he did size up quite a bit. Like I said, he's in. Along with everyone else who didn't get caught.

I understand that the starting pitching pulls us up some. But hey man---are you 100% sure we're going to keep this rotation intact for the entire 2nd half? And if so, what makes you think that? It's been one injury after another with these guys. Maybe they just don't have what it takes to be consistent major-league starters. I'm glad they're all pitching at the same time again. But let's be realistic. The history shows one or more will go down again.