brinoch

Argue all you want, folks, just don't let it get personal.

I'm going to post this once more. WATCH. THE. LANGUAGE. If a Mod sees any cute contractions or replacements with symbols, there will be specific warnings, followed by 48 hour vacations. Got it?

Agreed. It's time for some accountability for Alou... I mean Jones.

Watch the language, folks.

I've moved the thread... and watch the language folks. You know the guidelines.

The Cubs are insane.

Holy dear lord, you've changed your opinion. It's magic, I say, magic. Nice try, my foot. You are a contrarian, CubsfaninCA, and you regularly skirt the line of trollish behavior pretty regularly. You've been a dropping into threads in such a fashion almost since you joined the board. I'm all for different opinions and I like a good debate. I don't like when people reiterate the same opinions time again without sufficient support for the argument. Additionally, it's pretty clear that "almost everyone else in baseball" doesn't mean much of anything since we don't have access to their thoughts. I would add the argument, too, that it's pretty clear that there are a lot of baseball clubs that really don't know how to maximize their winning potential. The Cubs are, and have been, a great example of how not to assemble a baseball team. that's really rich. when the information doesn't back one's opinion go personal. take the next lecture to pm. Keep dodging, ducking, dipping, diving and dodging. You may not like it, but you are contrarian. It's not personal and it's not an attack. You take pride in fighting the conventional wisdom of the board. You like pointing out how stats can't do this, and stats can't do that, and how your eyes told you that Choi sucked as a Dodger. Oh, and by the way, since you never read the last PM I sent you, why would I bother sending you any more? If you don't like what I have to say, in what forum I say it, how I behave as a Mod, how and when I moderate, or if you have a problem with me personally, please feel free to contact Tim or 1908. i think i read a few of your pm's and got tired of the lectures. obviously, it offends some that i question the dependability of moneyball. if that makes me a "contrarian," so be it. i can admit i've been wrong on guys like rusch, pierre and walker. i doubt the moneyballers can ever admit error, since they can always claim small sample or gm's are dumb or "he didn't get a proper chance", etc. pot meet kettle. Well, then, since you're tired of the lectures on trollish behavior, I would suggest not acting the troll. And if a Mod sends you a warning PM, even if you are "tired of their lectures," I suggest you read it. If you are acting inappropriately with respect to the rest of the board, and you do not heed the warning, public or private, of a Mod or Admin, then don't blame me (or anyone else but yourself) if you get banned. And, since you seem to be the NSBB incarnation of Joe Morgan, let me set the record straight: I am not a Moneyballer. I am an adherent of SABR. Moneyball is fictional book by Michael Lewis about one small market team's efforts in finding economic efficiencies in the game of baseball. The A's discovered that OBP was undervalued, and so focused their efforts in that direction. Nowadays, after Moneyball, OBP isn't undervalued. Indeed, it's perhaps overvalued in terms of contract sizes. Frankly, I'm not interested in maximum efficiency. My team, the Cubs, do not need to be especially efficient. They can have all the high OBP/SLG guys they want. I want to see the Cubs win games. I believe in statistical analysis. I believe in discovering new information, looking at new data, examining baseball from new directions and trying to discern the best way to make the Cubs a better team. I believe that baseball's conventional wisdom is often wrong, and should be questioned. Despite this, I think scouts are extremely valuable because, indeed, statistics cannot tell you everything about a player. And, perhaps most importantly, I believe that in the face of nearly one hundred years of futility, a new approach should be adopted. If the Cubs were winning with this approach of "conventional wisdom", I'd be happy. Because I care more about them winning than doing things the way I'd much prefer. I've maintained this attitude throughout my life. Questions are good. Learning for yourself is good. It has served me very well in my professional life and has proved an invaluable boon to my career.

AB's against lefties: 2003: 17 AB 2004: 36 AB 2005: 29 AB 82 AB's total vs. lefties 783 AB's total vs. righties Wow. He just can't hit lefties. It's been proven. In three years, with 82 AB's, he did squat. Hmm... let's do some numbers here on those HR's. 36 HR's in 783 AB's... is 1 HR every 21.75 AB's. 2 HR's in 82 AB's... that's 1 HR every 41 AB's. That's the worst split ever. Okay, not really. It's not even all that surprising. Of course, given the size of, dare I say it, the sample, I find it hard to draw any such conclusion that Choi cannot hit lefties. Indeed, I surmise that if the Cubs had not acquired Karros in 2003, Choi would have had a greater chance against lefties and perhaps, as his minor league career indicated, he would have hit just fine against them. Shouldn't you also ask the question: Why did the Cubs even acquire Karros? Maybe because something was wrong. Every sign out there proves that Choi can't hit lefties. He is average against righties, but he can't hit lefties. You can cite sample size (and yes I have taken a couple statistics classes) but Choi hasn't given me any reason to believe that he'll ever hit left handed pitching well at all. Definately not well enough to play every day. Also, for those of you that think the Cubs should bring Choi back to Chicago, Pittsburgh has 3 left handed starters, Milwaukee has 3, St. Louis has 1, Houston has 2, and Cincinnati has 2. That's 11 out of 25 left handed starters. Choi is not the answer. The Cubs didn't set out to acquire Karros. They set out to get rid of Todd Hundley. The price was taking Grudz and Karros -- and it was a pretty good deal, frankly. Choi hit lefties fine in the minors. I, personally, suspect he would be fine against them today. Certainly, he wouldn't be any worse than the rest of this bunch. Again, would you rather have Choi and Walker playing or Perez/Hairston/Bynum and Walker? I seriously hope that everyone would rather have Perez on the bench and not in the game. If you can find a right-handed first baseman who mashes left-handed pitching, I'm fine with acquiring him -- particularly if they have the flexibility to play other positions or spend some time in the minors when Lee gets back. Craig Wilson would do, but I doubt he's available.

No gay jokes. Period.

Holy dear lord, you've changed your opinion. It's magic, I say, magic. Nice try, my foot. You are a contrarian, CubsfaninCA, and you regularly skirt the line of trollish behavior pretty regularly. You've been a dropping into threads in such a fashion almost since you joined the board. I'm all for different opinions and I like a good debate. I don't like when people reiterate the same opinions time again without sufficient support for the argument. Additionally, it's pretty clear that "almost everyone else in baseball" doesn't mean much of anything since we don't have access to their thoughts. I would add the argument, too, that it's pretty clear that there are a lot of baseball clubs that really don't know how to maximize their winning potential. The Cubs are, and have been, a great example of how not to assemble a baseball team. that's really rich. when the information doesn't back one's opinion go personal. take the next lecture to pm. Keep dodging, ducking, dipping, diving and dodging. You may not like it, but you are contrarian. It's not personal and it's not an attack. You take pride in fighting the conventional wisdom of the board. You like pointing out how stats can't do this, and stats can't do that, and how your eyes told you that Choi sucked as a Dodger. Oh, and by the way, since you never read the last PM I sent you, why would I bother sending you any more? If you don't like what I have to say, in what forum I say it, how I behave as a Mod, how and when I moderate, or if you have a problem with me personally, please feel free to contact Tim or 1908.

AB's against lefties: 2003: 17 AB 2004: 36 AB 2005: 29 AB 82 AB's total vs. lefties 783 AB's total vs. righties Wow. He just can't hit lefties. It's been proven. In three years, with 82 AB's, he did squat. Hmm... let's do some numbers here on those HR's. 36 HR's in 783 AB's... is 1 HR every 21.75 AB's. 2 HR's in 82 AB's... that's 1 HR every 41 AB's. That's the worst split ever. Okay, not really. It's not even all that surprising. Of course, given the size of, dare I say it, the sample, I find it hard to draw any such conclusion that Choi cannot hit lefties. Indeed, I surmise that if the Cubs had not acquired Karros in 2003, Choi would have had a greater chance against lefties and perhaps, as his minor league career indicated, he would have hit just fine against them.

Holy dear lord, you've changed your opinion. It's magic, I say, magic. Nice try, my foot. You are a contrarian, CubsfaninCA, and you regularly skirt the line of trollish behavior pretty regularly. You've been a dropping into threads in such a fashion almost since you joined the board. I'm all for different opinions and I like a good debate. I don't like when people reiterate the same opinions time again without sufficient support for the argument. Additionally, it's pretty clear that "almost everyone else in baseball" doesn't mean much of anything since we don't have access to their thoughts. I would add the argument, too, that it's pretty clear that there are a lot of baseball clubs that really don't know how to maximize their winning potential. The Cubs are, and have been, a great example of how not to assemble a baseball team.

Your eyes and your memory have misled you. Choi had an OBP of .389 and an SLG of .496 (OPS of .885) when he was injured. But he still can't hit lefties. He never has been able to. That's a fact. And the key is those were his stats BEFORE he was injured. What has he done since then. You can state your case based on that but he's not that same player. I could make the argument that Sammy was still hitting well before he got beaned in the head and that should warrant a contract. But Sammy changed after that, teams know that, and that's why he isn't playing this year. Choi never could hit lefties, and after he suffered the concussion, he changed. And that right there is reason enough that Choi shouldn't play everyday. The guy at best is a platoon player. Really? Wow, he sucked as a Marlin in 2004. Only had a .388 OBP and a .495 SLG (.883 OPS). That's just awful, I say. Definitely took a dip to Neifi-esque suckitude with a .331 OBP and a .453 SLG (.789 OPS) as a Dodger in 2005. In the minors, Choi faced lefties everyday and wasn't platooned. He did fine against them. TT, post the numbers.

have seen this before. choi, jerome walton.... it's a legit question. not trying to knock the kid. The Marlins are really the only team that has allowed Choi to play regularly, and when given that opportunity, he produced. Then they traded him to the Dodgers who let him rot on the bench. perhaps i'm wrong, but didn't a bunch of teams have a chance to claim choi off waivers recently?? I believe the Red Sox have him stashed at AAA now. Doesn't change the fact that when give a chance to actually play regularly, he played well. if the guy could produce, he wouldn't be stashed in AAA. He also just came off the DL. But, whatever, don't let your disdain for Choi get in the way of your analysis. it's an objective opinion. i actually watched the dodger play. i change when the information changes. unfortunately, there are those who never budge an inch. Really? As far as I can tell, you've never budged from being a contrarian who makes it his mission to be go against the grain. I've also never seen you admit that anyone else might possibly be correct. In case you were curious, when Choi gets an opportunity to play he produces at a decent clip. I know this is hard, but rather than trusting your eyes, why don't you check out his stats? They don't bite. He's not an All-Star. Probably won't be an All-Star. But for the right side of the infield, would you rather have Walker and Perez/Hairston or Choi and Walker? Plus, when Lee is back, Choi can be sent to AAA, be a PH, DH for interleague, be traded, or whatever. He's certainly a better option than Clark or Durazo and the other retreads that have been proposed recently.

have seen this before. choi, jerome walton.... it's a legit question. not trying to knock the kid. The Marlins are really the only team that has allowed Choi to play regularly, and when given that opportunity, he produced. Then they traded him to the Dodgers who let him rot on the bench. perhaps i'm wrong, but didn't a bunch of teams have a chance to claim choi off waivers recently?? I believe the Red Sox have him stashed at AAA now. Doesn't change the fact that when give a chance to actually play regularly, he played well. if the guy could produce, he wouldn't be stashed in AAA. :roll: Whatever you say. I guess the fact that he actually has produced when given the chance to play regularly doesn't mean anything. No one is saying he's a star player. However, there are some AL teams that could use him as a DH, and probably a handful of teams around the majors that could use him at first base. He just happens to be in an organization that has productive players at 1B and DH already. Didn't he play regularly with the Cubs before he got his concussion? I don't remember him doing anything for us. Choi is just as bad, if not worse, as Jacque is against left handed pitchers. I think it's unanimous on this board that Jacque should have a platoon partner. So why should Choi get the chance to play when he can't hit lefties? He doesn't deserve it. Your eyes and your memory have misled you. Choi had an OBP of .389 and an SLG of .496 (OPS of .885) when he was injured.

have seen this before. choi, jerome walton.... it's a legit question. not trying to knock the kid. The Marlins are really the only team that has allowed Choi to play regularly, and when given that opportunity, he produced. Then they traded him to the Dodgers who let him rot on the bench. perhaps i'm wrong, but didn't a bunch of teams have a chance to claim choi off waivers recently?? I believe the Red Sox have him stashed at AAA now. Doesn't change the fact that when give a chance to actually play regularly, he played well. if the guy could produce, he wouldn't be stashed in AAA. He also just came off the DL. But, whatever, don't let your disdain for Choi get in the way of your analysis.

Except we're not in the American League, haven't played any Aermican League teams and total stats for Major League Baseball are irrelevant since we're in the National League, compete against teams in the National League, and one day will hopefully win the National League Pennant. So, with that said, the Cubs are: 16th in Runs 16th in Hits 15th in Home runs 16th in OBP 15th in SLG 16th in OPS 16th in BB's The Cubs are the worst offensive team in the National League. The team OBP is .306. That's positively Neifi-esque.

Here's a piece of advice for Mabry... RUN!!!

I love bunting so Perez and Blanco have a chance to drive in a run. So helpful.... Zero outs and a man on second with Jerry, Neifi and Henry coming to the plate. Or one out, a man on third, and Neifi and Henry coming to the plate? I know... PH with Murton!

That was not pleasant to watch. Ouch. I hope he gets better soon.

Yeah, that was ridiculous. By far the filthiest pitch I've seen in a long time.

Yes, but they were also behind 4 other teams.

I'm not liking the direction this is taking. Please cease the inappropriate awards discussion.

The 2004 Expos don't have s*** on us. Much as I'm frustrated with this team too, watch the profanity. I know. I've seen other people do the same thing and I didn't think it was that big of a deal. And when I, or another mod sees it, we let them know that profanity is not acceptable.

The 2004 Expos don't have s*** on us. Much as I'm frustrated with this team too, watch the profanity.