LeonDurham

Possibly. Has there been any talk the Browns attempted to do so? Also: it's the Browns. And wasn't there a ton of talk that you had a bunch of people throughout the league wondering what the hell the Bears were doing? Again, Trubisky could very well end up being a great pick; it's just kinda goofy it's being spun as this move that required all kinds of brilliant strategy and trading up. You're right; nobody is going to know for sure, but the idea that Pace was just competing with himself seems to at least have as much weight as this idea he skillfully swooped in and was pulling the wool over everyone's eyes playing the long game and snatched away a pick the Bears weren't going to have if they hadn't traded up. Like, he doesn't have to be Super GM for this pick to work out. I didn't read a ton post draft but in the couple days before the draft the Trubisky to Browns rumors were all over the place. I don't know who's actually got sources but here are some links a google search turned up. Browns trying to trade up for QB - UPI - 4/27 https://www.upi.com/Sports_News/NFL/2017/04/27/Browns-trying-to-trade-up-for-QB-Trubisky/4241493330865/ Browns sound poised to trade up for QB (and they should) - 4/20 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/browns_are_poised_to_trade_up.html Browns reportedly spoke to 3 teams about trading up bleacherreport.com/articles/2705719-browns-reportedly-spoke-to-3-teams-about-trading-up-from-12th-pick-in-nfl-draft Trubisky a serious possibility for Browns at 1 http://www.cleveland.com/browns/index.ssf/2017/04/mitch_trubisky_still_a_serious.html Chiefs-Browns reportedly coveted Mitch Trubisky (post draft) bleacherreport.com/articles/2707219-chiefs-browns-reportedly-coveted-mitchell-trubisky-ryan-pace-explains-trade Browns reportedly serious about taking Trubisky over Garrett bleacherreport.com/articles/2707219-chiefs-browns-reportedly-coveted-mitchell-trubisky-ryan-pace-explains-trade I'm not necessarily concerned with portraying Pace as the Theo of the NFL, but when the alternative view holds that he was dumb and it was a bad move my counterpoint is: nu-uh. I wanted Trubisky and I was reading all those articles that the Browns wanted him and had the fire power to get to 2. I figured leading into the draft that there was a good chance they'd have to trade up to get him. So just on my end it made sense from the beginning. Then you've got what WF22 just said, that Pace knew all the offers to move up to 3. So just in my little world, this was a coup and seems like something Pace planned out quite a bit. And in the end I think it'll look something like if Theo bamboozled his way into KB over Appel rather than having it fall in his lap. I'm adding more 4D chess moves to it by assuming Glennon was part of the plan, just because it makes sense that in order to trick people you can't be sitting there with a bare QB cupboard or a washed up Cutty that has missed significant time just about every year. Just wouldn't make sense to take a safety over QB in that situation. Or it could be that Pace didn't need to do it and I still think he's a genius who got KB over a bunch of Appels. Good post. Agreed on all fronts. All this angst about the trading of picks is completely unjustified. At the very least, Pace knew people wanted to move up because he was talking to the exact same people trying to move up to 3. The same people who probably wouldn't have been calling him if they knew Pace wanted a QB. But nobody thought that. I'd even bet that if Cleveland 100% knew what the Bears would do, they would've taken Trubisky #1. It's almost like Cleveland fell for the peer pressure and was afraid people would ridicule them for over drafting Trubisky. So much of the rage was the draft experts saying no QB is worth a top 15 pick. That whole concept is dumb because the draft experts completely seem to ignore the economics of the situation. Year after year QBs are overdrafted and often flop. So the experts feel vindicated and continue to underrate them. However, the analytics state that the QB is so far and away the most important position that its inherently worth the risk to draft a franchise QB. You can draft a bust at any position. Or you can even hit. You can draft stud who will be productive for maybe 3-4 years at a far less valuable position. You can get lucky with a DT like Aaron Donald who can hold out and demand a massive contract and then be productive for 2-3 years on that contract. Or you can draft a franchise QB who can lead your team to the playoffs for a 20 year career. These guys are never available on the open market where even mediocre QB's are worth $20million/year. And most teams rarely draft in top 3. Either you draft high and take a shot or get lucky with a late rounder. And the way the draft is now, its tough to get lucky with a later pick. Aaron Rodgers basically made tons of money for all the Blake Bortles and Blaine Gabberts of the world. Any QB with any potential is getting nabbed early. I'm 100% on board with the move by Pace. Even if Trubisky doesn't pan out I'm fine with it. But I'm happy he's looked damn good so far.

Yeah I see all the articles saying how well Glennon played. It looked to me that he played OK but was again completely outplayed by Trubiaky. The clock issues and fumbled snap aside. There is a huge gap in talent and ability.

With this play calling they really don't want Mitch to look too good do they.

Watching the game on NFL network. I didn't realize Jesse Ventura did Arizona Cardinals games.

:lol:

That was a typical cutler pass.

Darren Rovell was on ESPN radio today and said the ring would fetch more than Rizzo's, Bryant's or Theos. I think that's ridiculous, but he probably knows more than me. That said, he's never going to auction it off. He could've cashed in a long time ago, and he's chosen not to.

He didn't deserve to have his life ruined for trying to field a baseball in 2003, but you didn't get to decide that either. This is a mostly private way for the Cubs to make a restitution, and it didn't prevent the team from any baseball operations. It's a marketing move, and though it's a weird thing to do, it's been a weird thing for 15 years, so it's a form of closure for everyone involved. Make up your mind. Is it a mostly private gesture or a marketing move? It can't be both. that's what I just don't get. Why the publicity. If they were going to give him a ring, whatever. There were 1908 given out. But why publicize it so everyone starts talking about it again. I'm sure Bartman is happy about the ring, but he would've been happier if it were given in private.

Is it meatball to take comfort in the fact that the greatest regular season pitcher in modern history turns into a pumpkin when the playoffs come around?

So looking at it from a Cub-centric point of view, it seems as if the Yankees paid way less for him than the Cubs did for Quintana. True? And if so, since we trust the Cubs front office, does that mean that Theo feels that Quintana is significantly better than Gray?

Love it! How did he score there? KB has got some wheels.

Boras should feel the repercussion of discouraging any client from signing an extension. Arrieta lost millions. Maybe it works out for Boras in the long run, but on a case by case basis can screw the player. Arrieta has probably cost himself 10s of millions of dollars by sucking this year.

I wouldn't mind seeing Schwarber struggle for a while before breaking out. Honestly it would alarm me more if he started tearing it up right away in Iowa.

The only thing that I'm bothered by is selling the pick. It bothers me not because it says GarPax are stupid- because even an idiot wouldn't sell a pick just for $. It bothers me because it says the ownership of one of the most lucrative and valuable franchises in the NBA wouldn't pay $3.5 million for a chance at hitting on a Draymond Green or Isaiah Thomas. But the trade doesn't bother me at all. I like Butler a lot but don't get all the angst. His value was overrated. People act like the Bulls turned down many other better deals and wanted to give him to Thibs. He's a top 15-20 player who has 2 years left on a team friendly deal on a Bulls team that has no hope whatsoever of contending while Butler is still in his prime. After that, he's going to want supermax. No thank you. Watch what the Pacers get for PG or see what Sac got for Cousins. Why people feel that Butler is worth multiple lottery picks and/or a proven young star is beyond me. There is a very limited market for him, especially given he dominance of GS. He might make a lot of teams marginally better but he certainly isn't going to push many teams over the top especially when he will probably be in decline before GS.

Can't be much more disappointing than other Mayweather fights where he never gets hit and wins a boring decision. At least we may get to see MacGregor talk tons of trash and then get knocked out.

Good one guys. I knew Eddie would shut down these chumps.

Pudge Rodriguez in yet Bonds is out. Because Bonds was a better player when juicing than Pudge. Therefore, there is some doubt about whether Pudge was actually juicing.

Hahaha, on Rizzo's HBP... Nice read. Still basking in the glory of the WS win. I really liked the part about Martinez batting with the season on the line. Funny how in any major sport, you would never dream of putting it in anyone's hands except your superstar. But in baseball, the Indians had to hit the worst hitter in baseball as the winning run with 2 out.

I have no expertise in a baseball swing. None whatsoever. And I agree that time will tell if he improves. I also like the fact that he's changing it up. But since this is a message board, I will put in my 2 cents. I don't like the swing at all. It might be an improvement over the prior swing, but that would not be difficult. I know golf does not always equal baseball. But if this were a golf swing, it would result in a weak slap slice.

Rajai Davis would have been an afterthought. While that 8th inning was a soul crushing wake up call, that 5th inning is what changed everything. And if it had, there'd be 2 men vilified: -Sam Holbrook for his inability to call a strike down the middle. -Joe Maddon for pulling Hendricks. Now here's where it gets mind boggling: Had Maddon pulled Hendricks when he did for anyone but Jon Lester, then David Ross doesn't come in. If David Ross doesn't come in, Assuming that the Indians still score there 2 runs that inning, we could very well have lost 6-5. Now I'm well aware that in every close game, there's going to be any number of factors that could have changed everything. And who's to say that if a didn't happen, that x, y, and z would have anyway. But anytime there's a close game like this, I can never stop thinking about the what ifs. Remember Ross was the one who had to field the ball, which any other pitcher could have easily fielded but Lester, and threw the ball away enabling men on 2nd and 3rd. These guys scored on the wild pitch.

you're supposed to manage world series games differently than you do all season Agreed. I am so happy this team won, and so happy that Maddon is the manager. But he would've been second guessed forever about his bullpen management. It was easy to second guess him using Chapman game 6. And I didn't feel good about it. But I trusted that Joe somehow knew that Chapman would be OK game 7. But he was clearly gassed. And bringing him out for the 9th inning yesterday. I absolutely couldn't believe it. Probably the first time all year I thought Maddon was being an idiot and making a huge mistake. Sometimes I disagree, but always trust him. He's earned it. But damn. That was bad. Even after seeing Chapman was struggling in inning 8, he brought him out again. Chapman without his 100mph fastball is an average pitcher. He had nothing. Couldn't throw strikes. He was VERY lucky to get out of the 9th. I am so relieved about this win. Because after the years of pain as a Cub fan, this would've been a horrible way to lose. To come back from 3-1 down against a team decimated with injuries. Take a 4 run lead. Then blow it on an error, wild pitch, overuse of a closer who allowed a home run to a slap hitter. I don't think I would've recovered for a while. There's alway next year, and this team is damn good and young. But there are no guarantees. To win this, the Cubs had to stage a miracle comeback in game 4 of the NLDS, come back from 2-1 in the NLCS, go into extended team-wide hitting droughts, and come back from 3-1 down. And they were the best team in baseball. Playoffs are a crapshoot. What a relief. They horsefeathering won. :yahoo:

They played their asses off. And they were killed by injuries. Hats off. So glad they came up a bit short.

Hilarious. Bill Murray is interviewing Fowler on fs1 and he's drinking. The guys on fox said first time he saw a reporter drink on the job. Clearly they never saw Harry Caray during one of the rare clubhouse celebrations.

Feel bad for the indians fans. For what happened and for living in Cleveland Ohio. But There isn't a more deserving group of fans than us!

Now they are talking up the young Indians. I agree they are going to be good for a while. But I'm sooooooo glad they aren't talking about he Cubs that way right now.