PriortoTheoIhadWood

Always liked Howell...no velocity but buried his curve really well. That was always cool.

Reading this list I see why BA is pretty high on the system. Alls I sees is upside up and down, with a blend of guys who'll make it to the show (still). Even before Theo the system was on the way up, but he's pushed things forward a little. There's still plenty of gains to be made too.

Stacked typically refers to a superstar filled roster...elite players...guys can have elite YEARS but not be elite players (Derrek Lee 2009 comes to mind instantly...a case of a very good MLB regular having a superstar/elite season)...The 2008 team was well designed, but there isn't a single truly elite MLB player on the roster except for the then 38 year old Jim Edmonds. Lets face it...it was also a HUGE deviation from what the Cubs hoped and dreamed of when they opened the decade with the most exciting young rotation in baseball. 2008 coulda/woulda/shoulda had a 27 year old Mark Prior anchoring the rotation and yadda yadda yadda.

Maybe you didn't follow the Cubs as closely in the early part of the decade. 2003 was the year that the was supposed to be the beginning of dominance for a decade. The 2008 team was the end of any relevance. but in terms of which team was better, it's not even close. the 2008 team was completely stacked. That 2008 team was not stacked by any stretch of the imagination. They didn't have any holes, but they were basically just good everywhere instead of having any real greatness. 2003 had a HOF RF and what should have been 2 HOF starting pitchers at the beginning of their careers. 2003 had the feeling of a team on the verge of continued dominance and 2008 had the feel of a complete one-off opportunity. Not to mention 2003 did something no other Cubs team had ever done, win a playoff series, while 2008 ended in completely bombed. Say what you will about playoffs being a crap shoot, but let's not pretend they don't matter or shouldn't influence your opinion of a team. Completely agree with this. It's all in the pitching talent for me and 2003's SP staff would eat 2008's for breakfast. The guy who was the 3rd best pitcher on the '03 staff was the ace of the '08 staff, and it wasn't because he became a significantly better pitcher from '03 to '08. I think the Prior situation is the only thing that makes me a "real' Cubs fan. That whole thing STILL stings.

Have until 1/31/12 to order Sickels' book IIRC. Always worth it...

Leyland is a smart guy. That team's window isn't going to be open forever. The closest to a trustworthy starter behind Verlander is Fister/Scherzer, and neither guy is someone I would call a sure thing (though I like both). JUST DO IT TIGERS. G'dammit it makes so much sense for them to do it. Verlander - Garza - Fister - Scherzer would stack with most anyone not located in Philly. I insist.

Sounds like good news with the Tigers...been saying all offseason they fit like a glove for Garza.

Just the pitching staff of '03...and by pitching staff I mean Prior. The whole Prior thing still stings a little. If that guy stays healthy the Cubs are one of the best teams of the last decade, and he'd only now be hitting his 30s IIRC. That whole thing just sucks to think about...

Meh to both Flaherty AND Gonzalez...the potential 2B I hated to see lost was Lemahieu. Dude can ball. Even then he's basically Barney with less D and a possibly better bat. Isn't Flaherty 26 next season and pretty much looking to be a Blake DeWitt anyway? Not a big loss IMO...possibly useful though.

+1 Everything after '03 seemed like they were chasing the magic of '03...G'damn that was such a great baseball season to watch. 2008 was a fun peak, but the pitching on that roster didn't come close to the talent of the '03 staff and that made all the difference.

Yes, please. Like most anyone I like Zunino too...

Months later, this quote still applies for me. I think it will hit me during the season when the team is surprisingly good on the field and everyone's all "zomg the Cubs are gonna be blah blah blah before you know it!" you are going to be pretty behind the curve if it doesn't hit you that this is our front office until 2014 How behind are we talking? What's happening in 2014? Are they leaving? What's to even be behind about?

Months later, this quote still applies for me. I think it will hit me during the season when the team is surprisingly good on the field and everyone's all "zomg the Cubs are gonna be blah blah blah before you know it!"

Can't remember but isn't Vogelbach around 240 maybe even 230 now?

Yea, it's a pretty huge advantage. That said, that should be much less of an issue because: 1. we're rich and 2. Porcello has had two offseasons to build up animosity while new toys come in to play with. I'm not sure of big of a worry money actually would be. They might even look to get rid of those arb years with a contract... And again, I'm going to insist that most people are sleeping on the talent. More often than not a guy who comes up at 20 and makes an impact ends up being a damn good player...OK, more often than not is unfounded, but probably closer to true than not. I am not losing sleep over some kid struggling in the bigs at 21/22...especially since just 2 years ago he was considered an elite talent and nothing physically has gone wrong since. The guy hasn't even found some consistency in his repertoire yet and he's held his own as a big leaguer. Personally I think he's better put together physically than Turner and is a better athlete too, but that just might be stating too many opinions. Iunno...I'd be fine with Turner (clearly prospects are the in thing) but with our super sleuth we love to find steals FO I would love for the Cubs to get their hands on Porcello. Just saw this year a talented young AL pitcher (who too many slept on prior to the season too) come into the NL and pick up more K's and groundballs...That happens to Porcello and suddenly he's back on top of the world. Oh and as far as fastball velocity goes...Porcello throws his 2-seamer way more often than Garza too. Overall, he can bring heat if he has to.

the K rate hovering around 5 per 9 innings pitched throughout his entire major league career, which isn't far from his minor league K rate. #2 starters on good teams need to miss bats, and porcello hasn't shown that ability at all. Couple things with this: 1 - Tigers had him pitch to contact often. I also think they took away his breaking ball early on, and it's regressed a little. 2 - He's got plenty of stuff to pick up that K rate. I'd be infinitely more worried about the K rate if he was a junkballer, but he's not. 3 - Turner has never posted great K rates either, and personally I think Porcello's stuff is right there with him. Throw in that he came in at 20 and made an impact and all I see is upside...He does have the disadvantage of being exposed more than Turner, but like I said we haven't seen Turner struggle yet either. I also think he ups the chances of getting Castellanos, who I really like also. I would do a Porcello, Castellanos, Smyly + fodder deal without thinking twice.

+1 Don't get the hype.

Are you hopped up on the dope? What's not to like about Porcello? He had a couple bad seasons at 21-22? Spilled milk to me. Still think everything is there to be a top pitcher. Size, youth, stuff, and health are all there. Mechanics need some work but he's not exactly crapping the bed there. What's so super amazing cant miss about Turner? What happens when he hits his bumps? About the only true, standout advantage is service time and that can be cleared up with a reasonable contract.

Not for nothing, I like Porcello more than Turner. I would love a Porcello - Castellanos - Smyly - Other/Fodder for Garza trade. I think between Porcello and Smyly there's a #2 starter in there.

OTOH he'd help in run prevention.

Thought the same thing...they're the one team I like trading Garza to.

I really like McNutt and Wells. Everyone else is a prayer...Even those two guys are a prayer...Have not quit on Simpson...The 2011 guy I really liked was Scott the South African kid...I like Austin Reed because I remember he had a cool changeup as a RH HS pitcher...Like with the rest of the farm there's talent but it's all out of wack for one reason or another. McNutt's athleticism surprised me if that has any significance.

Iowa line: .330/.365/.600 MLB line: .280/.325/.450 I like Vitters more than I should (I secretly believe he can top that MLB line), but I like the tools man. There's LITERALLYZ nothing wrong with the swing, and he'll get hit by pitches. If he learns to swing at strikes ten it's game over man, game over.

Great to hear about that shift...So many people hated the deal at the time. People really slept on the guys talent. So many had him pegged and clearly had never even seen him pitch. I'm perfectly fine with keeping him, but I think the Tigers should still be mega interested. Teams window is now...

I only count 3 elite arms currently set for FA - Cain, Hamels, Greinke - with Anibal Sanchez as a very good 2nd tier option. After that, a 31 year old Marcum is probably the next best starter. That pitching field is thinning fast. Hoyer and Theo need to use all their power to land Hamels. All of it. Oh and I do think he hits FA. I think the Giants might lock up Cain even over Lincecum...