PriortoTheoIhadWood

You can say that you're basing this totally off of this being an uncapped IFA year and them being said to be friends? Or that it's weak spin to more than double what the experts say he "should" have gotten just to land his friend? What does Soler get out of this, if he's the real target? The knowledge that the Cubs will pay his friends well to have him around? How much did this improve the odds of the Cubs signing Soler, who they've been amongst the favorites for the whole time anyway? If you think you're the one who should be lost for words in this argument then...well then I don't have any clue what else to say. Yes, I do actually...It's a swiss cheese argument for why they'd go out and give a 6 million dollar deal to a kid who's been playing pro ball in his country for 2 years yet only just turned twenty. Top pitchers from the Cuban pros (who again have a good track record coming to the majors) have gotten more than that easy in recent history for Jah's sake...easily explained by the fact that he needs more minor league time than all of them...therefore carrying the most risk...therefore not getting the big money guys like Contreras, the Hernandez brothers, or Chapman have gotten (and I'm sure I'm forgetting someone).

1. No FO pays an amatuer a couple of extra million to gain an advantage on getting his friend. If it helps? That's nice. It's not a deciding factor to pay someone 6 million dollars, and most definitely not the kind of advantage I see this FO is looking for or even consider a real advantage. 2. You asked those guys for their opinion and they gave it to you. It has less significance than you want to give it. We've all read the same stuff anyway... Soler is just as much an unknown as Concepcion. There's like 1 picture out there between the two of them. What you're saying and then backtracking from safely is not as big a factor as you keep trying to make it seem it was. Doy we're all going to give Concepcion time because he's already here and there's nothing else possible to do.

Actually reading a comment from minorleagueball on Hunter Virant made me draw some parallels to Concepcion. The description of Virant: http://mobile.minorleagueball.com/2012/5/26/3045530/2012-minor-league-ball-community-mock-draft-after-action-discussion Now obviously adjustments have to be made...everyone's technical so the velocity is higher obviously than what Concepcion has been so far...Virant is also taller, but 6'2 is fine...but beyond that I think this is more of the idea behind Concepcion...a young, athletic, malleable lefty with some of the raw tools to be a LHSP. Yes, there's weird mechanics (for both of them, as Virant is nowhere near polished with his) and the stuff isn't fully developed yet. That's to b expected of young pitchers, particularly an IFA lefty and a kid who's even younger in the pitcihng game than most his age (Virant). Concepcion is not a ruse to lure his friend by paying him 6 million dollars. Highly touted Cuban pitchers and players also have a strong track record, which IS a real advantage in taking that kind of financial dive into a prospect.

Fried is easy enough to explain if you want to, it's just hard to want to since there was a couple of more touted players on the board.

No, that's almost exactly what you're saying. I've heard they're all friends as well, and I still don't see that being a legit reason to pay someone 6 million dollars. I think he's saying that the Cubs might have seen like 4 million dollars in value on Concepcion, but they thought that the extra 3 million was worth it because of his bond with Soler. right, davell? That's alot of value in an IFA, which speaks of talent. EVEN THEN I find it incredibly had to buy from this particular FO and ownership group...even if it does miss in the long run.

No, that's almost exactly what you're saying. I've heard they're all friends as well, and I still don't see that being a legit reason to pay someone 6 million dollars. Toonster, I only said I was imagining it to be nice. I shouldn't have because it gave you an easy out. I think that's basically what you've been doing since I disagreed completely on Matt Loosen. Anyway: a) It's a loose definition on what scouts want out of a #3, and a whole HELL of a lot more goes into it than that. Matt Loosen does not...I repeat...does not...profile as a #3 except on an absolute bottom rung rotation. b) Maybe I missed it, you actually said they had a similar ceiling and Concepcion was more interesting. One of those is something I can agree with. c) No scouting report out there would say Matt Loosen has the ceiling of a #3 starter.

OK, once again, whether I quoted you to your exact word or not...You do not hand out a 6 million dollar contract to an IFA in the hopes that this lures another, better IFA. It's a big reach from my standpoint, and if that played into this signing at all it was only in the tiniest way. Again, what about this FO or ownership groups ACTIONS make you think this idea makes significant sense? WHY would Concepcion be...your exact words here...THE key to getting Soler? Is it possible...and I know I'm going out on a limb here...that a kid who was pitching in the Cuban pros at the ripe age of 18...and doing well...just might have some talent that the Cubs think they can mine and make shine? Even despite the not-even-2-months-into-his-career-in-American reports, which changed pretty damn quickly from before he signed anyway?

If you want to find the next Tommy Hanson (or the #3 starter version of a late round pick) you don't start with a 23 year old in High A who might have an above average slider and who might have hit the absolutely bare minimum it takes to call a fastball a mid 90's fastball. At least get some height and projection on him...Or at least shoot for a lefty if you're doing any of the above don'ts...

Phrasing it as a question simply made it the passive aggressive form of attack I think it was intended to be. Personally...and this is just me...I'm highly unlikeable...I think you've been passive aggressively attacking Concepcion in this therad since I stated my distaste for Loosen even being said to have the ceiling of a mid-rotation guy. I'm highly unlikeable so maybe I'm just imagining it...but that's totally how it reads to me.

Fleita is the one who built the one thing the Cubs had/have going for them...the Latin America operation. It's already landed the team it's best player and some relief arms. He's a guy who's reputation will increase now that he's working for people (and I'm talking about the Ricketts') who will appreciate the job he's done and doing. I actually like him more than McLeod, who will also see his reputation rise just from being here for the turnaround we're likely to see in the next 3-5 years (if not sooner).

It's fine to question what's going on with him. It's laughable to say that they signed him for the hell of signing him or to lure someone else. You don't give an IFA 6 million dollars for those reasons, and that's common sense simply common sense. I'm not sure who put out the 92 stuff whenever it was out there, but it was out there up until the Cubs signed him. I didn't read that one way or another either...glowing or not...it was what it was stated to be. It's not even shocking to hear he's in the 80's right now. He probably weighs 160 soaking wet.

Waiting for his new slash line to load....pretty sure his ISOd is close to .050, which would be nice. He's up to .266 with the BA, and I even think his ISOslg might be .150. His last 10 line before tonight from MiLB.com is .324/.410/.559. Things are looking up for the Vitters!

Concepcion's pedigree, which I can pretty much trust to be real, blows Loosen's out of the water. To me, this kind of stuff matters. It matters alot. The fact that you're even putting them on the same plane is ridiculous to me. I'd like the reports of his mechanics being terrible...And again, reports were mighty positive about him until the second he inked that contract with the Cubs...so pardon me if I'm leery of what is essentially noise coming out of the first two months of his American pro career...noise from people who've been knocking his signing since he got the money, and who suddenly forgot that during the process there were reports of hitting 92-93...as a projectable teenager with no real weight training or MLB conditioning program of any kind...already holding his own as a pro in a county that is pretty good at playing baseball. All of a sudden he's getting money for the sake of spending money...and you wonder why I'm talking about a mini-leash? Again, really?

Already linked a pre-draft look...You would think for a guy you claim has #3 SP upside at the ML level that he'd be able to dominate A/A+ hitters with this slider. His K rates are nothing to brag about, and you would expect that from a 23 year old in High A for the second time with a supposed above average to plus ML pitch. Soooooo...I'm calling bs. Wait all you want, but I expect you'll be disappointed with your claims. It's not an aside. Yes, I would go with 93-96 which is not 93-94. That...person is very easily amused. I would say that about somebody in the majors, maybe, since 95+ consistently is no joke at that level (no innings limits, not as severe with the pitch counts, best competition, etc). I'm not defining anything, but I know a pitcher who can be a mid-rotation starter when I read/see one. Matt Loosen is not that. I have never lied to myself about Nick Struck either. OTOH, if I was to bet money on which one becomes a #3 starter at the highest level between Struck and Loosen, it would be Struck by miles and miles. Struck, to me, was a guy who they liked how he was throwing, saw him performing well, Cubs figured he could handle moves/had good makeup/maturity, and the Cubs also figured they could use the press of a 21 year old arm making it to AAA so quickly. Right place, right time, and the abilities to make the situation work out well enough that nobody complained. I have no clue what makes you think Concepcion needs his mechanics overhauled. The guy hasn't even been stateside for two full months yet. Is there just a thing for short RH starters pitching below their age level with what, in the majors, is non-exceptional stuff? Is this their weekend or something? Francescon is almost a non-entity to me as far as long term rotation options in this minor league systems go.

You don't sign a supposed nobody to 6 million dollars to lure another FA. What in the hell would would have anyone thinking that from this kind of FO? This is the kind of FO that throws money around like that? Has ownership done anything to even hint that they just are willing to throw away significant chunks of cash like that?

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/college/weekend-preview/2009/268005.html

Who was the nub projecting an .190 ISOslg in his prime the other day? When do we burn him at the stake?

Why does 3 have to be in quotes? If Loosen actually has #3 upside, which I still hiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiighly doubt, then he's trade bait to any team who actually buys that. A medium sized, non-projectable RH with no standout physical attributes doing above average in High A at age 23 is not someone you're thinking of as a future anchor, and believe it or not a #3 starter is one of the anchors in a rotation. I don't buy your analysis of the slider, and I haven't even seen it. If it was that good, I'd have heard about it by now (or even possibly seen it by now). It would have been more talked about in the draft, after the draft, sometime during his time in the minors...SOME point in time. It's probably a nice pitch, for him, as his pitches go. Good for him there. It's not eating up hitters below AA ball for Jah's sake. That's why I find it easy to say that does not project to much. 93/94 is not mid-90's, and even then touching mid-90's in the minors is less impressive than you're trying to make it sound. Even then, he's doing that again...in High A...through 25 innings (over 7 starts)...and he's maxed at 78 IP for a season in the minors so far. Literally none of this says mid-rotation arm upside. As far as the Concepcion signing...I doubt they just decided to up and spend 6 million on a lefty who was starting in his country's pro league (and Cuba is a good one) at 18 for the hell of it. I also have to that few, if any, liked the deal, and it's been panned by every major analyst I can think of. There are no some on that deal, but I do think that his talent has been *undersold* since he got that deal no one expected him to get. Before he became a Cub there was reports of him hitting 92 maybe even 93 (with the aptitude and athleticism to maybe grow into that along with a couple decent secondary pitches), but those went away quickly. So he didn't come sprinting out of the gate...That's not really something to hold against a young IFA making his overseas debut. Matt Loosen is just finding his feet in High A at 23 and that's fine, but the 20 year old who was just playing pro ball in Cuba 8 months ago gets the mini-leash? Really?

He's a 19/20 year old hyped Cuban IFA now spending his first season in America living the life of a minor league baseball player. Lets allow more than a month and a half for that to sink in.

Yeah, I'm just going to go ahead and totally buy that he doesn't have actual mid-rotation upside on the kind of team the Cubs should want to have. He most definitely should have more developed secondary pitches right now (he's 3 years older, drafted out of college...I mean, really?), but long term and at the ML level none of them project to much. I highly doubt we see him have anything much to do with them mid-90's as a major leaguer, unless it's out of the pen. I honestly don't even find this one debatable.

BJ Upton just nailed Pedroia at home plate from CF. Havent seen him do that in a while, but his arm was known to be very strong back before his shoulder injury. That wasn't even the best thow I've seen him make as a pro. I would like him to be a Cub.

I'm not sure Concepcion's ceiling is better than Loosen's. Both seem like end of the rotation arms with mid-rotation ceilings if all goes well. I don't see Loosen's upside as anything more than bottom of the rotation or pen. He's a 23 year old unimpressive stuff RH currently in AA. Maybe mid-rotation upside in a bottom tier rotation. I'd say Concepcion's ceiling is better than his, and being newer, LHeder, and three years younger makes him way more interesting. Also willing to bet he's a better athlete with way more room to grow/get better moving forward...

Yeah, there's pretty much no way I pick Fried over Almora there, and I like the idea of Ruiz later. I actually like Mooneyham or Selman (115 to the Giants) more than Wood, but I guess it can be argued that Wood is the most talented of the three.

Jackie Bradley Jr would be awesome, and hopefully possible. I don't think it'd be crazy to ask for him. I think he's got similar upside to Jackson without the absolutely ridiculous K totals.

More reason to support celebrities being assholes on Twitter.