jumbo

Known liar called out as jerk calls accuser a bigger jerk

This is what the people demanding input from Alex Brown, Olin Kreutz, etc. are talking about - some football players who are in tune enough with the game to meet with McCaskey and co regularly and break down what they're seeing for him. Like the Packers game when Jenkins came in and Nagy/Lazor went empty backfield 5-man protection - it makes no sense! Those guys could explain to George that decisions like this hurt the team in the game, in Jenkins' development, etc.

I wish I could give you more than one heart for these - thank you - great reads If I was hiring the next coach I would expect physicality to be part of their answer when I asked what the team will look like. The kind of team that other teams groan when it's time to line up opposite because there's an ass beating coming win or lose. A Titans style offense would work really well for Fields. Fix the line, let draft pick RBs take the easy yards and set up the pass. Fields could be a beast throwing deep off PA or taking off against man coverage.

I agree it would be the savvy play to acquire draft capital and shed declining, high priced veterans. They would have to be in a tank or semi-tank mode due to the dead money hit to the salary cap. Essentially any bonuses for 2022 and beyond would hit the 2022 cap all at once, so if he got a $30 signing bonus on a $70 deal, then it would cost $18 in cap space for 2022 to trade him, lowering what you can spend on the rest of the roster. You can only cut/trade so many expensive vets doing that before you have to fill out the roster with flotsam to field a team. They can, of course, restucture other guys to make more space back, but then you are kind of stuck in this cycle. Lots of teams do that every year (Saints are famous for it) but it can catch up to you at the wrong time and basically put you in cap hell. If the team determines that they can get a good enough pick and have enough cap space I think they should do it, but it would have to make sense with the whole offseason strategy. For example, last offseason RRH signed with Jacksonville and was going to get the Bears a comp pick, but then by signing Dalton that cancelled the pick. So if you're going to trade guys like Quinn for draft capital, don't sign big money FA's unless you don't mind them cancelling out ARob's comp pick, which will likely be a 3rd rounder. So much to determine about the next regime (I still think Pace is gone)

I predict both Nagy and Pace are gone next Monday

I read a ood article on the Athletic about Josh McDaniels and it had me convinced that I would be happy if the Bears signed him. The main points were his handling of Mac Jones this year and his ability to adapt a scheme to any QB's strengths/weaknesses. I've also heard that he loved Fields in his scouting work for last year's draft, so there may be some interest on his part in Fields. If he did come I would think he would be a coach who has to be at the top of the organizational chart. He's not coming in to work under Pace, he will want to hire/bring his own guy. That woudn't bother me, either. I was talking to someone here in the office about Pace and the best way I could sum him up was that I think he's an average enough GM that we're not going to automatically get someone materially better than him, but I woud prefer a different flavor of GM. One who has a couple guiding principles of valuing draft picks more, only signing players over 30 if they are the last piece of a championship team, I could go on but the point is that if the coach comes at the expense of Pace I am for it.

He had another one where someone tweets to him "you were awful" and he comes back with "that's not what your mom said!"

You would think that after last season, when Nagy and Pace convinced them to stay that they had to have, for at least a brief period of time, thought about the alternative to keeping them. This should not be a brand new concept to them as they have been asked about it by reporters in the past. I believe their answer was "Pace IS our football guy," which makes sense. Sooner or later there is a guy they trust to run the team and that person is Pace. All of this is to say that if they don't already know what they want to do they're idiots (like undecided voters). I've long been a proponent of the fact that a guy like Pace as your top football guy is fine. The question is whether Phillips as their top non football guy who football reports into makes sense. It does sound like their questioning thst, but yea are ak undecided that they're now unprepared. Did something really happen in the past 365 days that changed Phillips mind about changing his role? So I'd be curious about what a guy like Armstrong's role actually looks like that broadly complements a primarily personnel/scout based GM at top of Football Ops. Something that is more than head of hiring and firing. Like DePodeata in CLE is all football ops based, but seems like hes broadly responsible for charting a course of a broad football ops expansion (heavily analytics driven). More I read and think about Armstrong and I'm wondering if it's just about him being well connected to coaches and execs and if the intent is just an alternative to a hiring consultant? Or would he have a real permanent job? I think Armstrong is a guy who could be asked all the questions people want the McCaskey's to answer and have a legitimate opinion on the direction of the team. For example, ask the question, what qualities do you want your team to show on the field? The Steelers grade a player and then ask the question, "he's good, but is he a Steeler?" What does that mean - what qualities are they looking for based on their offensive and defensive schemes/philosphies? What character requirements or whatever else do they look for? The current Bears roster is evidence of an absolute lack of a North star that would frame all subsequent decisions. I would think an Armstrong type would be the guy who sets the direction then signs off on FA strategy, big signings, whether to trade up or trade down, all balancing the long term with the short term. It's obvious that Phillips/McCaskey don't understand that balance or they would have moved on from at least Nagy after last offseason. There was no chance this team could compete this year and ownership let Pace and Nagy burn a year to win now. It's so dysfunctional. Ultimately, you wonder why Trace wouldn't just do those things himself and not need a guy like Pace. He needs a Director of Pro Personnel type instead and then Pace is gone. I think it's just "give me a better football guy" in the end, and the rest is semantics.

Realistically, what do we need to add for next year to feel like we're putting Justin in a real position to succeed? Something like this? - 2 starting caliber WRs - 1 starting caliber TE - A starting caliber Center - A starting caliber guard (ideally just extend James Daniels) - A tackle (these last few weeks to determine how good he needs to be) With the cap space open this offseason, that's probably actually doable? You're left bargain hunting on defense, but I'd be happy to finally have a team that can win games 34-27. Can we do this with defense building around Smith and Johnson? - 1 starting caliber ILB to pair with Roquan - 2 starting caliber CB (slot and boundary) - 1 starting caliber S - Rotational DL (ideally extend Nichols) CB needs some real talent additions, the rest could patch up with cheap veterans

So they wind up with new leadership but kneecapped because others will have swooped in ahead of them to acquire the best people. I even think the "best narrative" part is overrated. Nagy was a hot candidate and Frank Reich was leftovers after a coach backed out for Indy. Who has turned out better? But still, would be better if the President had been in the building to evaluate things for themself? At this point even a very brilliant outside mind can only know so much about what specifically has ailed the Bears. You would think that after last season, when Nagy and Pace convinced them to stay that they had to have, for at least a brief period of time, thought about the alternative to keeping them. This should not be a brand new concept to them as they have been asked about it by reporters in the past. I believe their answer was "Pace IS our football guy," which makes sense. Sooner or later there is a guy they trust to run the team and that person is Pace. All of this is to say that if they don't already know what they want to do they're idiots (like undecided voters).

It's a good point... Fields could be having standard rookie struggles AND be greatly held back by terrible coaching/team, which would dip him into historically poor numbers relative to other QBs. Not to say that other rookies haven't had bad coaching, but its a bit of a unique situation. Also again it's 9 games. He does have some things he needs to work on but if you parse the numbers out, he's doing some things well and has shown enough flashes to keep my faith high. If he's still in this range this time next year, then sure I'll be concerned. Isn't Mac Jones the only rookie with good ratings? Fields catches a lot of flack compared to Wilson and Lawrence who are seemingly playing about the same level. The numbers I'm basing this on may be a touch out of date, but I remember reading this a few weeks earlier in the season.

To be fair, the Bears did have Johnson following Adams around the first time they played. Johnson was similarly good on the outside and got beat pretty handily in the slot. But IDC if you have to change your whole defense, you can't let DeVante Adams roam all over the field and face man coverage with Xavier Crawford, or LBs or a safety. If he beats Johnson (joke here) from the slot, then so be it. Get beat with your best on their best. yea. Its puzzling why the Bears didnt just play spy with Adams/Johnson. IIRC, in the first meeting JJ followed Adams to the slot and didn't have the same success as he did on the outside. Slot corner is talked about like a different position and I can see how it would be. JJ appears to be best as a boundary corner. Someone with more in depth football knowledge than me might be able to explain why beyond just being in the middle of the field.

For the record, whenever anyone has "horsefeathers" in a quote, I like to really imagine the person (your wife in this case) actually using the word horsefeathers. Makes every post funnier. I'll introduce "horsefeathers" to her tonight Giggity

Something looks....not right about this picture of him Like he is crazy enough to believe they had a SB chance last year

Some Bears site floated Payton or Tomlin as candidates to replace Nagy. The guy is full of it but this is how things turn into rumors.

I agree with the reasons of Fields' safety but if the Bears believe Jenkins is the LT of the future, and the season is lost I can see them pushing aside a 38 year old LT to give him reps. Edit: Of course on 2nd thought, even if the Bears are eliminated from the playoffs, this FO and coaching regime may be trying to win as many games as possible to keep their jobs and ultimately they may not care about working in a rookie LT When Peters was getting up to speed a couple former OL said they could understand platooning Peters and Borom to let Peters get his legs under him. Maybe pick a couple drives and let Jenkins get out there and otherwise keep Peters as the starter. At this point I'd be pleasantly surprised if Jenkins can manage to look good even in a limited sample this season considering many looked at this as a lost season for him.

I did say in every post that I don't expect them to make any trades. I'd like it, and I think the valuation part is interesting, I even acknowledged that Pace could aggressively buy

So, I just posted in the other NFL thread that the NFC is terrible re: Saints making it in. But really, the NFC is terrible. The Bears are behind the 8-ball with 5 losses, but they definitely can sneak in again as an 8-win ish team. LA, Arizona, GB, Tampa, and Dallas are for sure in the playoffs. Lions are for sure not making it. The other teams are: Saints- starting Trevor Siemien/Taysom Hill 49ers- always injured, Jimmy G better keep playing like yesterday or they'll be playing a rookie QB WFT- QB situation is a mess NYG- Daniel Jones is their QB, team is worst than Bears PHI- Jalen Hurts is their QB SEA- Geno Smith is their QB MIN- Cousins is solid, Bears have a shot to take care of them to get edge CAR- Sam Darnold is their QB ATL- Ryan is old and team is worse than Bears And these teams are fighting for 2 spots. Nobody on this list seems like a sure bet to coast toward a wildcard berth. None are probably winning a playoff game anyway, but in the Bears situation, they gotta try to compete. They don't have a 1st so they need to win as many games as possible to make that pick further down in the draft. I honestly don't think they will trade anyone. Even trying to pseudo compete, I would still try to trade Robinson, Hicks, and one of the QBs. If anyone gives anything for Foles, that's a no-brainer. I'd also give up Dalton for a decent offer, though I think he's a guy they could bring back as the #2 next year. Bears got dead money counting for him anyway, may be able to lower that for a guy that Fields seems to genuinely like and learn from. Hicks, to me, is just taking up space. He's not a big difference maker so far this year. They've had good games without him, bad games like yesterday with him. Give the reps to other guys (Nichols, Blackson, Tonga) to see how big of a role they can have in the future. Robinson is a completely different situation though. He's obviously not performing this year, but maybe not completely his fault. May be killing his ability to get a 3rd round comp for him with his non-production. I think he's looking at a 1-year deal if things keep going this way. So, you're maybe looking 4th or 5th round comp. And that's in 2023 anyway. If the Bears can even get a 4th in 2022 for him, they gotta do it. They only have 5 picks (2 difference making picks) next year, another would be nice. 2022 picks are WAY more valuable than 2023 at this point, given the cap issues and like 32 free agents on the roster. Agree, I am not expecting any trades even though I want them to happen. Robinson and Hicks seem like possibilities and should be traded if a trade is out there. I expect the team to keep everyone to try to be the 7 seed again. If all those trades in the original post were made the bears would have: 2022: 2, 3, 3, 3, 5, 5, 5, 6, 7 2023: 1, 2, 3, 4, 4, 5, 5, 7 But we'll end up with 2022: 2, 3, 5, 5, 6 2023: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 7 Pace said the team would be aggressive, so hopefully they don't trade more picks away to patch their holes

Yes, I agree. I don't think they're going to trade anyone because ownership/front office wants to complete. I wish they would acknowledge that every better team they've played has blown them out and try to recoup draft capital. Nagy wouldn't want to trade anyone Pace would if he was coming back Ownership could tell Pace he's coming back, then can him after the fire sale. I doubt it, though. I love trade deadlines, but the NFL is never anything like NBA/MLB. This team needs the draft capital to reload but I don't see them taking that route.

I looked up all the "who could the bears trade" stories. I don't think they'll trade anyone, but the list of players ranges from the reasonable (Robinson and Hicks), to the knee jerk (trade Montgomery because of Herbert), to the even beyond unlikely (Foles to New Orleans, Quinn to some contender, even Graham was listed as a trade target). I don't see ownership giving up on the season after they squeeked into the playoffs last year, and I don't see Pace being cold blooded enough to trade Nagy's guys and then firing him. This team doesn't look like it could beat any playoff team, but I can see ownership and Pace/Nagy thinking they could improve enough in season to do something. I was really most interested in the price for these trades Robinson was a 2022 2nd and 2023 5th, I would think a 3rd would be a good return Hicks was a 2022 5th Foles was a 2022 7th Montgomery 2022 3rd Quinn was listed as 2022 3rd There was also some Dalton speculation. I'd trade all these guys except Montgomery given the chance, even if the return wasn't awesome. I'm so sick of going into the drafts short on picks.

Okay I get that part. But don't go like what? The idea they shouldn't have gone after Fields in that spot becaus the line wasn't built out? (Dumb, and they still went amd at least tried to add two pieces anyways). The idea they shouldn't have spent money because of the cap? Dumb and wrong. i'm not agreeing with him, i think he's just saying the bears shouldn't keep bringing promising QBs into bad situations and expect it to ever be different The problem is that the offense and defense were polar opposites. The defense is a win-now unit and the offense was and is a complete mess, worse than a bad situation. In 2020 the team sold out on more defense with Quinn, practically no help to the offense except Foles. After teh team limped into the extra playoff spot ownership was too scared to can Pace and Nagy and went with status quo, hoping that the team would catch lightning in a bottle with Mitch out of the way and the promise of Andy Dalton? I can't even believe it as I write it. Such a comedy of errors

Is there any chance the Bears trade Robinson or any other player on an expiring contract? I don't think they can trade much of anyone that is signed through next year because their cap hit will accelerate to this year, not enough space. I would guess that this is too early for the team to throw in the towel on the season, but it should be obvious that this team will not advance in the playoffs if they could manage to make it. As raw said earlier, they can win against other mediocre teams but are obviously outclassed by the upper tier. Players signed through 21 season and could be valued in trade: ARob Hicks (groin) --major gap-- Graham --another gap-- Ogletree SS Gipson --bad joke-- ODonnell Scales

Davante Adams kind of beat him pretty solidly on Sunday. Not a ton of catches, but a couple big plays. But IIRC, they had to move him to the slot, in a position that Johnson isn't used to playing, in order to have success. Johnson shut him down on the outside whenever Adams was lined up there. Slot corner is a major need for this team. Vildor might be better in the slot than the boundary, but Shelley & the rest are pretty underwhelming. Let's see what their other major needs are now/this offseason: LT Jenkins insurance RT Starter or Borom insurance RG if Daniels not resigned C upgrade on Mustipher (maybe not major) WR to replace ARob WR to fill out balance of roster after Mooney TE to replace Graham (resign James maybe) SS if Gipson not resigned It feels like there is still so much work to do to this roster, and next draft will be 2, 3, 5, 5, 6 (I don't think we'll be getting any comp picks based on all the needs and not much in the way of attractive FA leaving) Cap space for all the above is going to be tight, even with a cost controlled rookie contract QB and LT (and maybe RT)

But Nagy signed Glennon and drafted Trubisky. True, I forgot Glennon. The Trubisky part was in my FA comments, so wasn't considering him in that category, though obviously picking Deshaun was the no-brainer that no was not, but fair point.

Fields has to be good on a really strong scale IMO. It's not enough to develop Fields, there has to be strong offense output. But there's also a somewhat related point. This offense might just not be good enough of a supporting cast for Fields to put up strong numbers. While that isn't an indictment of Nagy, it is of Pace. And Pace should be on shaky footing IMO too. And Nagy certainly can't survive Pace getting the axe. And if Pace and Nagy never got secret extensions, Pace's contract is done this year and Nagy is entering a lame duck final year. So it's likely a choice between cutting ties or re-upping to the tune of 3-4 years. I think Pace is more or less avaerage when it comes to the draft. He has hit on late rounds studs/steals. He has blown early picks. It is a crap shoot for most teams to some degree. His big weakness is his use of multiple picks to get one player (Anthony Miller, David Montgomery, Jenkins) He's had some success in FA, but also made some really bad calls: Jimmy Graham at his price, Quinn was looking bad but may have turned things around - too soon to say, choosing Trevathan over Kwitkowski, Dion Sims for $15MM. Happens to every GM, I know. Hicks was a brilliant signing, so were so many other rotational DL, ARob was a great signing. The QB's I'll put on Nagy, as I don't think Pace targets either without Nagy's input. To sum up, I'd be fine with moving on from Pace for his handling of the OL the last few years. The rest of his track record seems about league average.