cubsfan26

That's odd. Well we know Hendry has always been really high on Pie. So he probably isn't gonna just trade him for a bad young pitcher who wouldn't be in our rotation, or average prospects. If MacPhail said Pie for Brian Roberts, I'm sure Hendry would listen. I heard Hendry say Pie would have a chance to beat Fukudome out for the starter against RH pitching this spring. So if Pie has a big spring and Fukudome struggles, Pie might get a chance.

It's not only the money issue, most of it had to do with getting rid of all our team depth, and trade pieces for one player. I'm sure paying most of Marquis contract was another factor, but the main factor was the amount of talent we had to give up, and how much it weakens our team overall.

I'm not saying Peavy is the difference b/w WS or no WS, but I don't think anyone here is satisfied with being in the playoffs.

It's not a negotiating tactic by Hendry, he wants Peavy but not at the expensive of hurting his roster. I'm sure Hendry still wants Peavy alot, and if Towers calls back he will listen. But the Padres are gonna have to lower their demands. It sounds like Towers either wants 2-3 stud prospects with a average player or two, or one stud prospect with 4-5 pretty good prospects, and a average prospect or two. With Peavy only willing to go to very few teams, and his 5y 81m plus contract and full-no trade. Nobody is gonna give up that type of package to get him. Even Peavy and his agent are saying the Padres need to be more reasonable with their demands. I wonder if their has ever been a trade that has worked out when a team sent 6-7 players for 1? We will see if the Padres come crawling back or not. If they don't it's not the end of the world were still a 90 win plus team, and we will still be in the playoffs IMO.

Or, just imagine that Peavy realizes he'd be happy in 3-4 other situations and lets Towers negotiate with more teams thus eliminating the only thing Hendry had in his favor. Then oh well, we didn't get Peavy. We still have a very good team next season, with a good rotation. It's not like us not getting Peavy doesn't make us good next year. Adding Peavy would be great, but if adding him, makes you weak in other spots it doesn't make sense. You only make the move if you're sure it makes you better, and if you take away depth and all you're trade pieces. Todays deal is very debateable if it makes the Cubs better or not.

Yeah I would expect Ibanez power to be better if he went to the Cubs or Phillies. But the guy will also be 37 next year, so who knows if decline will start to set in. But I have heard the guy is in amazing shape for his age, and many believe he's less likely to decline.

Just imagine if next month Towers comes back to Hendry and is willing to accept the deal for Vitters, Olson or another young pitcher(with Pie getting traded), Cedeno, Hart and midlevel prospect. It's not like that didn't happen to the Twins last year, when they were asking for a ton for Santana, and ended up getting probably half of what they asked for. I'm not saying it will happen, but the Cubs are in a good postion. We don't need Peavy, if we can get him sure, but we don't need to mess up the depth of the roster, and get rid of all our trade pieces to do it.

Jim Hendry strikes again. I'll be so glad in June when it's clear Dempster has regressed, and Peavy is lights out in SD driving his trade value way out of our price range. That'll be awesome. Everything is saying that the Padres were asking for way too much. I really don't think money is the main issue, especially when Kenney went out of his way to say that our "plan" fits the budget (amidst all of the Peavy rumors). I agree it's more then a money issue, it's the amount of talent and what it does to our roster as well. Also keep in mind at the time we resigned Dempster, the Cubs weren't the only team in on Peavy. So you don't wait around hoping to get a player in a trade, when you can have a pitcher now. Especially when you don't really have the prospects alone to get a deal done. But if the Padres were more reasonable with their demands, in their situation, this deal would be done. So it's not just a money situation, and having Dempster on the roster isn't the main reason this deal isn't done.

Which is what UI have been saying. We're counting on Harden and Dempster to be 2008 versions of themselves. The Phillies aren't counting on Maine and Pelfrey to be mid-high 2's ERA pitchers. I don't think we are either. I think Hendry was talking about Zambrano and Harden.

Right now the Cubs are a worse pitching team than they were in 2008 and a worse hitting team than they were in 2008. The point remains they must improve just to get back to last year's level. This is correct. But getting Peavy doesn't address the bullpen or the offense. It does make both weaker, with DeRo and Marshall both being involved. Unless everyone plans on all five of Z, Lilly, Peavy, Demp and Harden starting 32 games and pitching into the 7th or 8th every game, and Marmol, Shark and Gaudin being the only relievers used. do you not realize the upgrade of marquis to peavy is worth much more than the downgrade from kevin hart to atkins? yes, the bullpen gets worse if you trade marshall or whatever. but the rotation gets much, much better. and you can't just assume the rotation boost is equal to the bullpen loss because that's insane. You don't get it, yes the upgrade to Peavy over Marquis is big. But is it bigger then having Cedeno playing 3rd, having a outfield of Hoffpauir, Johnson and Fukudome for a month or longer? Or having Kevin Hart or Mitch Atkins starting when Harden is out instead of Marshall. Having a reliever like Guzman who has the upside to make a difference in the pen. Or having any prospects left to make a deal midseason if any players regress or we have a injury? Peavy over Marquis would be great. But unless you have very good health, making that deal will hurt you overall.

He might approve a trade to the Angels. All indications are that Peavy wants to remain in he NL. Now if it comes down to staying with the Padres or accepting a trade to the Angels, then yeah it's a no brainer. But there is no guarantee he will accept a trade to the Angels, if he feels the Cubs are still in it. Plus I don't see the Angels giving into the asking price for Peavy. They have a strong pitching staff much like the Cubs, and have been unwilling to trade top prospects in the past. So I don't see them giving up Vitters, Marshall,(prospects for DeRosa) level of talent to get Peavy either.

Pftttt... Peavy is a difference maker, all the others you listed aren't. You will notice a difference, unless we have perfect health next year, which isn't likely to happen.

Umm. All of 'em. Okay, so name a contender whose numbers 2 and 3 starters are as likely to get hurt and regress as Harden and Dempster Haha. Yeah, right. I'll get right on that. Any player can get hurt or regress. Uhh yeah, but what players are as likely as Harden and Dempster? It's not jyst a chance, it's a good chance. So you say "all of em" when I ask what teams are that suspect, and then why I ask to give an example you sau "haha, yeah right" Well played. I already gave examples. I said ALL OF THEM. That's not an example, that's a blanket statement because you have no answer. Name one contender who has a number 2 that is as likely to get hurt as Harden and a number 3 who is as likely to add a run and a half onto his ERA as Dempster. Just one If Dempster isn't good, then Lilly will be the number 3. Lilly is as good or better then most teams number 3's. Yes Harden is more of a injury risk then most teams number 2. But he's also better then most teams number 2's. The mix of even having him for 15-20 with Marshall for 15-18 starts might be simliar to most teams number 2-3's. Yes career stat wise, Dempster is a risk to regress. But nothing he did last year shows that it was a fluke. Plus Dempster didn't just go out and do the samething he did when he was starting before. He changed his delivery, got himself in amazing shape, and I heard he started using another pitch more. If you don't think those things effected him in a big way, then maybe it was a fluke. But I don't think it's a given that he's a mid 4's era pitcher next year. Rich Harden missing starts is ALot more likely then Dempster falling apart.

Yes thats way too much for one player, even if it's an elite pitcher like Peavy. come on. hart and cedeno are nobodies...they have no value at all. nearly every team has players like that sitting on their AAA roster. marshall is probably above average, derosa's 34, pie doesn't have a job for the next three seasons, guzman is obviously a huge injury risk, vitters is years away and already has health concerns. while big in numbers, that is not an overwhelming amount of talent. People aren't looking at the big picture, it's not just what we give up. It's what it does to the team and roster, losing DeRosa and Marshall really hurts team depth. Losing Guzman takes away a reliever with has a bunch of upside in the pen. Trading Pie, Vitters and others takes away all our good trade pieces. Tell me this, what we gonna do if Ramirez or Soriano miss a month or two? Mix that with possibly having Milton Bradley in RF? What we gonna do if Harden makes only 15 starts next year? Who's starting Randy Wells or Mitch Atkins? What if we need to add a player midseason, who do we have to trade? It's not the best interest of the team to trade all of these players for one player. Unless you rather lose with Peavy then win overall.

Umm. All of 'em. Didn't the Phillies just win a World Series with that rotation?

Yeah unless were hit with a ton of injuries, this team is a 90 plus win team again. Bradley production or whoever will be better then Edmonds when you factor in AB's and games. Plus lets not forget Soriano missed 50 games last year, with mostly a freak injury. Having him for more games will also help, and make up some for DeRosa dropping off some power wise. As for Theriot I don't see a major decline I still think he hits 290s, 350s-360s with 720s or so OPS. This team might not be 33 games above 500 again next year, but I think we will easily be 18-20 games above 500.

Yes thats way too much for one player, even if it's an elite pitcher like Peavy.

No one would rather have Randy Johnson than Jake Peavy. But a rotation of Zambrano, Harden, Lilly, Dempster, Johnson with Marshall as the 6th starter looks pretty good to me. A ton of question marks in that rotation. If Harden goes down and Dempster starts sucking, we suddenly have one high 3's ERA guy and a bunch of low to mid 4's ERA guys. Unimpressive. You can say that kind of stuff about just about any rotation. You could say Dempster will be much worse, and Harden might miss more starts then last year. But how do you know that Zambrano and Lilly can't have better era's next year. Plus having a guy with a high 3's and a bunch of low to mid 4's is pretty simliar to most teams rotations around the league. Adding Peavy doesn't make that big of difference if those issues are still here. Especially if you don't have Marshall to fill in for Harden or whoever else is hurt. Not to mention not having depth postion player wise, or prospects to make other good deals. Hendry made the right move here, getting Peavy would have weaken the Cubs too much depth wise.

Wow I figured the Cubs were probably offering 2y at 18, with a vesting option for a 3rd year. A year ago Bradley probably would have gotten 4y at 40m, now he will probably have to settle at 3y at 27-30m tops. Personally I think the Rays getting Joyce helps our chances to get Bradley. The Rays are less desperate now to bid guy for another hitter, and will probably go cheap with Giambi, Griffey or someone like that.

Well all wanted him really bad, but were not retards at the same time. We realize that making this deal, would hurt our depth and possibly weaken us as a team overall. Plus what happens if we need to make another trade? You see guys like Pie, Cedeno, Hart and others as a crap. But I see them as trade chips that will allow us to possibly add another good player. If we just traded away our top prospect, our depth, and valueable trade chips, were in a bad postion for next season.

This sucks, but I'm not surprised at all. Jim Hendry was in no postion to get desperate, and wasn't going to give into demands that put the Cubs in a bad postion. I don't think some realize that this probably cleans us out for anymore trades for the rest of the season. If we actually expect to add good players to the roster. Not to mention it would have probably destroyed our depth losing DeRosa and Marshall and not replacing them. Good bye Jake Peavy trade rumors.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/1325828,CST-SPT-cub11.article

Edwin Jackson was traded for Matt Joyce.

Whats up with Sullivan dislike for Gaudin? Even though Lou talked about Gaudin being in their plans next year, and Hendry reportly liking Gaudin. Sullivan keeps bringing up that they could end up nontendering him. I wonder what Bruce knows about the Cubs plans for Gaudin. I think it would be really really stupid to nontender him.

Hopefully thats Mike Valarezo Mike Valarezo isn't the assistant GM... he's a special assistant to the GM with 4 other guys. Randy Bush is the assistant GM. Yeah I know, I was just hoping he meant that. Because he's an assistant to Hendry, even though his offical title isn't assistant GM. Because I thought his sources were with Mariners minor leagues, and he had a friend in the Cubs front office. Otherwise I dunno who is friend could be unless it was the Mariners assistant GM.