These two guys have as much proof against them as Sammy. Piazza especially. There are all sorts of stories of his bachne. You're right, and later in my post, I didn't count Sammy among the 9 out of 21 users. But, if I didn't mention anything next to his name, someone would have said something to the effect of, "Everybody knows..." It's pure conjecture at this point. Unfortunately, I think he's going to be kept out of the HoF based on pure conjecture. I don't know. There's rock-solid proof on Bonds, Arod, Manny, and Clemens, and McGwire all but admitted usage, but Sammy has never been linked to any steroid story, nor was he named in the Mitchell report. Agreed there's nothing as rock solid as the evidence against the players you mention. How do you think about the fact that he pretended not to know English when he testified in front of Congress? Aside from the other evidence which can or can't be explained away this is the most damning evidence against him.