Backtobanks

This $30 million contract to Seager or Correa could have been offered to Bryant and then we would have not only an impact bat, but also would fill an actual hole (LF) that this team has. The money should be spent on the rotation first. A solid pitching staff keeps you in every game. you would sign the worst/oldest player of the 3 just because nico hoerner exists? The point is that we have a team with a bunch of holes to fill. I think we need to fill those holes first before upgrading positions that are already filled by players like Happ, Hoerner, Wisdom, etc. and then deciding if they need to be upgraded. The obvious holes to fill are 2 SP, 1B, LF, and the bullpen. It's not like we're going to be contending next year.

Does Arrieta check any of those boxes? Yes, several! Also a contender is adding him for free in dollar and player terms, which is not a comparison to questioning why Davies didn't have a deadline trade market. Apparently the Padres overpaid for him anyhow.

This $30 million contract to Seager or Correa could have been offered to Bryant and then we would have not only an impact bat, but also would fill an actual hole (LF) that this team has. The money should be spent on the rotation first. A solid pitching staff keeps you in every game.

It was a good trade, but Madrigal doesn't exactly qualify for your description of an "impact bat". But Trey Mancini and his .319 OBP from first base does? There's other ways of doing this besides waiting for the next KB to come along, and we should explore those options because that doesn't happen very often. Brennan Davis is the best prospect we have, by a pretty considerable margin, and he's stroking out 28% of the time in AA, without KBs elite walk rate, power, or ability to play a premium position. Sitting around assuming him and a bunch of teenagers are all going to blossom into the next Cubs juggernaut is A. dumb and out of touch with reality, which is that prospects break, and B. the type of strategy that teams like the Pirates try to do because they have no other options. Madrigal and Hoerner are well on their way to becoming dirt cheap, productive major league baseball players. They will never be the three and four hitters of a division winning team, but they allow you to go find and pay for those types of hitters. Go get Correa or Seager, spend another $30m a year on a couple starters, and see where you're at. I'm all for sign top FAs and making this team competitive sooner rather than later, but Hoyer (and PTR) seems determined to take a 2-3 year timeout to wait for our top prospects before breaking the bank. PTR has already determined to put the money into the betting complex and his Hall of Fame honoring his family. He's learned from the master (Trump) to hide problems (the team) with smoke and mirrors so that nobody is looking at the problem.

Once one has decided that the biggest problem this Cubs team has is Nico Hoerner playing SS, no subsequent observation is necessary. The Brewers are running away with the division and have one of the best records in the ML bereft of impact bats. Of course, they have outstanding pitching and a smart manager, and front office. Nice strawman. But coming from the guy who swore Kimbrel would net very little in a mid-season trade, not shocking. It was a good trade, but Madrigal doesn't exactly qualify for your description of an "impact bat".

Once one has decided that the biggest problem this Cubs team has is Nico Hoerner playing SS, no subsequent observation is necessary. The Brewers are running away with the division and have one of the best records in the ML bereft of impact bats. Of course, they have outstanding pitching and a smart manager, and front office.

Platoon DH with Ortega next year.

It's like when I was a kid and we took anybody who had a mitt just so we could field a whole team.

Johneshwy was really bad and had no business on a major league roster, even for a day. Welcome to the 2021 Cubs.

There is no way PTR is going to spend enough money this offseason to get the Cubs to .500. The Cubs were struggling to play .500 when they still had Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, and Kimbrel. bryant/rizzo/baez were only worth like a combined 5-6 wins with the cubs this season. madrigal already makes up for what baez was doing. So now we just need to replace Bryant, Rizzo, and Kimbrel to get back to a sub-.500 team.

SS is not an obvious hole until you see what Hoerner can do. Signing a superstar SS for $30 million per year still leaves this team a 3rd place finisher waiting for 2024. Meanwhile, we have almost no pitching (besides Hendricks) and probably very little to count on for the next few years. As for Pham, I'm more than open to finding another RH LF that PTR can fit into his austerity budget. Also, I mentioned trading for Mancini/Voit to help the offense. I'm looking at many/most of these players as placeholders until 2024. As for your comment about the Preciadp/Hernandez/Caissie group not making it, Hoyer will be fired if they don't because this is where he has put all of his faith into. If you truly believe there's nothing we can do until 2024, why are we wasting money and prospects on dudes who will be 34, 33, and 32 on opening day 2024, and then spending 'big money' on Stroman (will be a month shy of 33) or Rodon (31)? You've got $80m coming off the books, you've got Heyward in 2 years, and you aren't scheduling any big paydays for your internal guys anytime remotely soon. Use the freed up cash, get the team to project to .500, and reassess next June on if you want to wait for the teenagers or use them to get big league talent. There is no way PTR is going to spend enough money this offseason to get the Cubs to .500. The Cubs were struggling to play .500 when they still had Rizzo, Bryant, Baez, and Kimbrel.

He's a 24 year old 2B who has never not been on the IL. You cannot wait to see what such a player can do when there are better options readily available. He came up as a SS and moved because of Baez. The "better options" are outside PTR's budget plan for 2022 in my opinion.

And the first thing everybody wants to do is sign a $30 million per year superstar SS instead of spending it to fill the obvious holes on this team. Next year (and probably the year after) this is a 3rd place team (at best) waiting for our next "core" of possible star players in 2024. I can't see PTR spending a ton of money until the team is ready to really be competitive. Spend big money on at least 1 SP (Stroman, Rodon, etc.), sign a RH LF (Pham), make a couple of trades (Mancini would be my 1st choice, but Voit would be cheaper at 1B and Merrill Kelly), keep Ortega and Schwindel for DH/bench, and keep Chirinos around for another year. By the 2022 offseason, reassess the ML team and the progress of the prospects in the minors to determine the plan of 2023 and 2024. This is mostly bad. "Superstar" and "SS" are pretty obvious holes, right? How long do you want to wait to see if our prospect list turns out a superstar? Davis next year, and then....Ed Howard, all of 21 years old in 2023, currently getting owned in single A? The even younger Preciado/Hernandez/Caissie/Made group? And if those don't hit just press the reset button again? We have $38m in guaranteed salary next year, another $15m in arbitration for Willy, Ian, Ortega, Wieck, and then the league minimum for Mills, Wick, Heuer, Madrigal, Adbert, Hoerner, Steele, Wisdom, and whoever else. Call it, what, $60m? How does signing 34 year old Tommy Pham do anything in your plan as your top offensive move? Go get someone you know is good, gives you a shot of being good soon, and will still be good when those cheap prospects finally make it up. Then figure out how much money you have left and go from there. SS is not an obvious hole until you see what Hoerner can do. Signing a superstar SS for $30 million per year still leaves this team a 3rd place finisher waiting for 2024. Meanwhile, we have almost no pitching (besides Hendricks) and probably very little to count on for the next few years. As for Pham, I'm more than open to finding another RH LF that PTR can fit into his austerity budget. Also, I mentioned trading for Mancini/Voit to help the offense. I'm looking at many/most of these players as placeholders until 2024. As for your comment about the Preciadp/Hernandez/Caissie group not making it, Hoyer will be fired if they don't because this is where he has put all of his faith into.

It’s good to remember the 3 best position players on the team are on the IL, so there’s a significant influx on the current roster relative to what we’re seeing right now, plus any optimism you want to have about others who could be productive role players(Happ, Bote, Deichmann) or better than their current role(most of the non-Hendricks SP). There is a lot of depth to add though. This just made me sad thinking that Nico Hoerner is now a top 3 position player on this team. It was always nice that Willson was like the 5th best player, now he's the best? And for some reason, the Cubs website does not list Madrigal (assuming he's in this sad little group) on the IL. He's shown as in the minors. And the first thing everybody wants to do is sign a $30 million per year superstar SS instead of spending it to fill the obvious holes on this team. Next year (and probably the year after) this is a 3rd place team (at best) waiting for our next "core" of possible star players in 2024. I can't see PTR spending a ton of money until the team is ready to really be competitive. Spend big money on at least 1 SP (Stroman, Rodon, etc.), sign a RH LF (Pham), make a couple of trades (Mancini would be my 1st choice, but Voit would be cheaper at 1B and Merrill Kelly), keep Ortega and Schwindel for DH/bench, and keep Chirinos around for another year. By the 2022 offseason, reassess the ML team and the progress of the prospects in the minors to determine the plan of 2023 and 2024.

Does Arrieta check any of those boxes?

It's a shame the trade deadline isn't 8/31 because we would be more than happy to trade Davies back to them.

Rossy taking care of his buddies With the offense struggling, you gotta go with the better hitter (.198 vs .174) :lol:

He'll fit right in when the Cubs play the Field of Dreams game next year.

Good or better than this embarrassment of a team that's on the field now? I agree that certainly doesn't take much effort or money. Marquez, Davis, and Steele look like the only prospects that will be in the ML sooner than 3 years from now and while all of them look like "good" prospects, the real "possible star" prospects are at least 3 years away. I don't think Hoyer and/or PTR is going to spend a ton of money this offseason because there's just too many holes to fill. After acquiring a couple of mid-tier FAs and seeing how Steele, Davis, etc. along with the rest of the 2022 roster perform, they might have a better idea of when the "possible star" prospects will make the team. Anyone currently in a full season league can easily reach MLB within three years. There are a bunch of potentially useful players across A, A+ and AA for us right now that could be average or better big leaguers. In fact, there are way too many for me to bother listing here - we have one of the very deepest farms in the league right now. And there are a few guys in there that could be really good if things break right. Hell, even guys like Preciado, Caissie or Alcantara could be in MLB by the end of three years if they develop quickly. --- edited to add I think I misread your post. I thought it was saying that it would be more than three years, but you were saying it would be that third year when high impact guys could arrive. Let me list a few guys that could be contributors or stars that will reach by then: 1) Davis has the capability to be a star level player. A .900 OPS from a capable CF is a star. 2) Diechmann can definitely be a contributor. If he can figure out how to unlock his power while also making contact (instead of one at a time), he could be more. 3) Amaya could be a really good starting catcher by 2023. He's not likely a star unless he hits for more power, but a solid defensive catcher who gets on base is pretty valuable. 4) Morel could be contributing as soon as next year in a utility role. 5) Rivas can hit righties in MLB right now. If he can play the OF well enough and learn to hit lefties, he can be a good MLB starter. 6) Strumpf could be a contributor by end of next year, let alone in 2023 That's just the hitters at AA and AAA. There are a bunch of interesting relievers at those levels, too. There are also a number of SP who could be up by the end of 2023, including Kilian in AA who could be up by the end of next season. Even a guy like Jensen could be up by the end of next year even though he's down in A+ right now. Davis could be a star, but I don't believe he will be a ,900 OPS ML CF. Those numbers make him a first ballot HOFer.

Good or better than this embarrassment of a team that's on the field now? I agree that certainly doesn't take much effort or money. Marquez, Davis, and Steele look like the only prospects that will be in the ML sooner than 3 years from now and while all of them look like "good" prospects, the real "possible star" prospects are at least 3 years away. I don't think Hoyer and/or PTR is going to spend a ton of money this offseason because there's just too many holes to fill. After acquiring a couple of mid-tier FAs and seeing how Steele, Davis, etc. along with the rest of the 2022 roster perform, they might have a better idea of when the "possible star" prospects will make the team. You don’t think Davis is a “star” prospect? I think Davis could be a solid ML player, but not necessarily a "star" (which is fine).

Good or better than this embarrassment of a team that's on the field now? I agree that certainly doesn't take much effort or money. Marquez, Davis, and Steele look like the only prospects that will be in the ML sooner than 3 years from now and while all of them look like "good" prospects, the real "possible star" prospects are at least 3 years away. I don't think Hoyer and/or PTR is going to spend a ton of money this offseason because there's just too many holes to fill. After acquiring a couple of mid-tier FAs and seeing how Steele, Davis, etc. along with the rest of the 2022 roster perform, they might have a better idea of when the "possible star" prospects will make the team. Anyone currently in a full season league can easily reach MLB within three years. There are a bunch of potentially useful players across A, A+ and AA for us right now that could be average or better big leaguers. In fact, there are way too many for me to bother listing here - we have one of the very deepest farms in the league right now. And there are a few guys in there that could be really good if things break right. Hell, even guys like Preciado, Caissie or Alcantara could be in MLB by the end of three years if they develop quickly. Those are the "possible star" prospects that I said are 3 years away.

This team is 3 years from being good unless PTR decides to spend big and I betting that's not going to happen. There are at least two reasonable paths in this thread alone to being good or better next year. TT's doesn't even involve the team spending big. Good or better than this embarrassment of a team that's on the field now? I agree that certainly doesn't take much effort or money. Marquez, Davis, and Steele look like the only prospects that will be in the ML sooner than 3 years from now and while all of them look like "good" prospects, the real "possible star" prospects are at least 3 years away. I don't think Hoyer and/or PTR is going to spend a ton of money this offseason because there's just too many holes to fill. After acquiring a couple of mid-tier FAs and seeing how Steele, Davis, etc. along with the rest of the 2022 roster perform, they might have a better idea of when the "possible star" prospects will make the team.

I suggested Heyward for Hosmer with the necessary tweaking (prospects/cash). We're desperate to get rid of Heyward and the Padres are just as desperate to get rid of Hosmer. What do you think the Padres' motivation is to get rid of Hosmer I'm just going by the multiple stories of the Padres trying to find a way to dump Hosmer.

He's at full 10/5, I highly doubt the places that would trade for him and that he'd go to intersect at all... especially considering I have a feeling the places he'd accept a trade to is pretty close to 0 if not 0. Forgot about the 10/5. Was going to say he might move in a situation where we take an even worse contract (more years or more AAV). Do buyouts happen a lot in baseball? He's a great clubhouse presence and his defense is still solid (I think) so its not the worst thing in the world to have him as an extra OF on the roster as long as its clear he is not an everyday or even platoon starter for the next team that attempts to contend. I suggested Heyward for Hosmer with the necessary tweaking (prospects/cash). We're desperate to get rid of Heyward and the Padres are just as desperate to get rid of Hosmer.

This team is 3 years from being good unless PTR decides to spend big and I betting that's not going to happen.