Backtobanks

The latest rumors have Bedard going to the Mariners for Jones and 4 pitchers. I wonder if that will affect the players we send the Orioles in a Roberts deal. I don't think it's possible, but it would be great to make the deal without involving Gallagher.

Getting back to my original post, the reason I posted the Pie and Gallagher for Roberts idea was because it was some of the recent speculation about the trade with the Orioles. Hoops posted (and I agreed) quite awhile ago that Hendry has a public position on Pie (untouchable), but seems to be listening to offers in private. I have posted often that trading Pie wouldn't surprise me at all because I think Lou feels more comfortable with a veteran. I have also posted many trade proposals in which the Cubs end up with Greene. Whether we like it or not, I think Lou and Hendry feel much more comfortable with Theriot starting than Pie starting. Obviously, we would all love to pick up that one or two players to win the WS without giving up players like Gallagher, Pie, etc., but it's very unlikely. I think Hendry realizes that this could be the year that the Cubs have a real shot and it's hard not to pull the trigger on making the deal that could make the difference.

Deal #1: Pie & Gallagher for Roberts Deal #2: Padres get: Mathews Jr./Rivera, from Angels (plus cash if GMJR) and Murton from Cubs Angels get: Kouzmanoff from Padres and ????? from Cubs Cubs get: Figgins from Angels I'm not sure who the Angels would want to complete the deal. Padres get two productive OFs and Headley takes over at 3B. Angels get young, productive, and cheap 3B and clear some OF glut. Cubs get speedy CF to replace Pie. Figgins CF Roberts 2B DLee 1B ARam 3B Soriano LF Fukudome RF Soto C Theriot/Cedeno SS \:D/ \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

MacPhail may look dumb now, but he might look like a genius in 2-3 years. I agree that it wasn't worth it to try to get both Bedard and Roberts because of the cost in young players. As for the Oriole fans, 2008 will be a long season, but by 2009 or 2010 they could be serious contenders.

That would be great news if it's true. I think Murton has some value to other GMs and a bunch of posters think Cedeno should be starting over Theriot. Of course, it depends on who the Orioles do want in place of them. The Bedard discussion didn't include much pitching help coming from the Mariners, so maybe Gallagher, Marshall, and Patterson?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/baseball/rangers/stories/012608dnsporanglede.2cf828b.html HAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA HA gasp HAAAAAAAAAAAA HA HA HA HA With that quote, at least we know this thread won't go 130+ pages.

I'm confused about tampering. Is talking to the Orioles about Roberts tampering? Is speculating about the availability of Bedard tampering? :?

Still need more, at least Gallagher. I also don't believe the Padres would turn over Greene and replace him with a risky player like Cedeno. Teams who want to contend don't do that. All of this discussion goes back to an old thread in which I suggested a 3-way deal with the Padres and Pirates. Don't remember all the details, but basically it sent Bay and Jack Wilson to the Padres with Greene (and maybe Hairston) coming to the Cubs while Headley, Murton, Cedeno, Gallagher/Marshall went to the Pirates. Yeah I mentioned that yesterday (and credited you), I think it was in this thread. You should dig it up because I think its the only way it'll happen. My thoughts are that Jack Wilson is fairly undervalued in the market because of his defense (although Huntington probably realizes that). Greene is a great player but isn't the type of guy for his home stadium. While hes obviously a better hitter than Jack Wilson, Wilson can probably be as effective in Petco because hes not such an extreme fly ball hitter (Wilson is roughly middle of the pack, while Greene is far and away the leader for SS). Also, obviously the Padres want a corner OF and there aren't many better than Bay. In your scenario the padres would have to kick in some decent prospects. IIRC, the Padres don't have a great system, but they'd have to contribute something pretty decent. Greene for Wilson is lopsided, but Headley for Bay is way more lopsided. Huntington hasnt done much with his players and has focused more on his staff. Hes stated that the team underacheived and hes not going to sell low, but I think presented with a fair package for both players (with possibly us having to take Morris off his hands), he'd most definitely consider a rebuild of his system. So, I was thinking about a possible alternative to Bay being moved as quotes from Huntington seem to lead you to believe that he wants to hold onto him to build his value back up. How about a Bay-less 3 way (with BTBs permission, of course)? Padres get: Wilson, Murton, Patterson Cubs get: Greene and Nady Pirates get: Cedeno and Hairston Padres get an acceptable replacement for Greene who also provides good defense but has an offense thats better suited for Petco, they get the corner OF upgrade that they want, and a possible option for the future CF hole. Cubs get to move Theriot to the supersub role and replace him with a big defensive and offensive upgrade in Greene. We also get the 4th OF who can play CF to platoon with Pie. Pirates get rid of two of their bigger contracts while replacing them with similar players who will be under their control for longer and at a much cheaper rate. Cubs get Nady and Greene and Pittsburgh gets Cedeno and Hairston? Maybe if Littlefield was still the GM, but that would be a horrible move on Pittsburgh's part to trade Nady and Wilson and only get back Cedeno and Hairston. Throw in Marshall (or someone) to get the deal done. It would solve the SS problem and reserve CF/OF and still leave us with Gallagher. Also, we would still have Marquis and Dempster (along with Gallagher and other prospects) as trade bait.

Still need more, at least Gallagher. I also don't believe the Padres would turn over Greene and replace him with a risky player like Cedeno. Teams who want to contend don't do that. All of this discussion goes back to an old thread in which I suggested a 3-way deal with the Padres and Pirates. Don't remember all the details, but basically it sent Bay and Jack Wilson to the Padres with Greene (and maybe Hairston) coming to the Cubs while Headley, Murton, Cedeno, Gallagher/Marshall went to the Pirates. Yeah I mentioned that yesterday (and credited you), I think it was in this thread. You should dig it up because I think its the only way it'll happen. My thoughts are that Jack Wilson is fairly undervalued in the market because of his defense (although Huntington probably realizes that). Greene is a great player but isn't the type of guy for his home stadium. While hes obviously a better hitter than Jack Wilson, Wilson can probably be as effective in Petco because hes not such an extreme fly ball hitter (Wilson is roughly middle of the pack, while Greene is far and away the leader for SS). Also, obviously the Padres want a corner OF and there aren't many better than Bay. In your scenario the padres would have to kick in some decent prospects. IIRC, the Padres don't have a great system, but they'd have to contribute something pretty decent. Greene for Wilson is lopsided, but Headley for Bay is way more lopsided. Huntington hasnt done much with his players and has focused more on his staff. Hes stated that the team underacheived and hes not going to sell low, but I think presented with a fair package for both players (with possibly us having to take Morris off his hands), he'd most definitely consider a rebuild of his system. So, I was thinking about a possible alternative to Bay being moved as quotes from Huntington seem to lead you to believe that he wants to hold onto him to build his value back up. How about a Bay-less 3 way (with BTBs permission, of course)? Padres get: Wilson, Murton, Patterson Cubs get: Greene and Nady Pirates get: Cedeno and Hairston Padres get an acceptable replacement for Greene who also provides good defense but has an offense thats better suited for Petco, they get the corner OF upgrade that they want, and a possible option for the future CF hole. Cubs get to move Theriot to the supersub role and replace him with a big defensive and offensive upgrade in Greene. We also get the 4th OF who can play CF to platoon with Pie. Pirates get rid of two of their bigger contracts while replacing them with similar players who will be under their control for longer and at a much cheaper rate. The reason I wanted Hairston is because he could cover all 3 OF positions, while Nady could only cover the corners.

How in the world do they match up with the Cubs? They're better at SS and CF. They have 2 starters, 2 setup men, and a closer for pitchers. They will be fighting the Twins for 3rd place, miles behind the Tigers and Indians.

Dont you know its illegal to propose a three way deal without the express written consent of BTB? Thanks for putting him in his place. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Still need more, at least Gallagher. I also don't believe the Padres would turn over Greene and replace him with a risky player like Cedeno. Teams who want to contend don't do that. All of this discussion goes back to an old thread in which I suggested a 3-way deal with the Padres and Pirates. Don't remember all the details, but basically it sent Bay and Jack Wilson to the Padres with Greene (and maybe Hairston) coming to the Cubs while Headley, Murton, Cedeno, Gallagher/Marshall went to the Pirates.

I posted in the Byrd thread that expanding the trade idea with the Padres to acquire Hairston with Greene would eliminate the need for Byrd. Obviously, the offer would start with Murton and Cedeno. How about adding on Patterson (to back up Edmonds) and Marshall?

Instead of Byrd, expand the trade discussion with the Padres to get Greene and Hairston. Obviously, unless a third team is involved, the offer would start with Murton and Cedeno. Hairston would become the 4th OF and could cover all three positions.

Who was ever suggesting just Cedeno as the main piece of the trade? I should rephrase my position. The Padres are a contending team with a weak offense. Their starting shortstop would likely be Cedeno if Greene gets traded to the Cubs. I don't think they want to open the season with him any more than we do. Agreed. The Cubs would have to either really wow them with the other parts of the deal or at least involve another team. The latest from Ken Rosenthal: The Padres are targeting Matt Murton for left field, a notion that gels with Kevin Towers' stated quest to acquire a corner outfielder via trade. Plus, Towers gets along well with Cubs GM Jim Hendry. Not sure how the teams would match up, unless things expand to include Khalil Greene. The Cubs would have to be sure they don't need Murton for other deals or because of other deals. Rosenthal agrees with the recent rumor that the Orioles will decide whether to trade Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts by month's end. He notes that Cubs starter Jason Marquis actually does have trade value, and could be part of a package for Roberts. Other teams are interested in him too - go figure. Innings are innings I guess. Marquis, 29, is owed $16.25MM over the 2008-09 seasons.

Way too many.

The Orioles Hangout site is talking about Greene because he wants to be on the East coast. The Cubs need a SS more than a 2B, but maybe a deal could be worked with the 3 teams to send Roberts to the Cubs and Greene to the Orioles. Padres get: Cedeno, Murton, Patterson Orioles get: Greene, Headley, Marshall Cubs get: Roberts, Payton, plus cash Follow it up with the Dempster, DeRosa, ???? for Burnett. Roberts leads off and pushes Soriano down in the order. Payton backs up all 3 OF positions. Rotation would be Zambrano, Burnett, Lilly, Hill, Marquis/Gallagher/Hart. \:D/ \:D/ \:D/

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-071105rogers,1,60753.column Thinking back to what Phil Rogers was speculating in November: "If the Cubs signed him [Fukudome], they might be in position to use Felix Pie in a significant trade, possibly with San Diego for shortstop Khalil Greene." I think there already is a Greene thread about he and the Padres not reaching terms on a long term deal. He does have 2 years left before free agency. Maybe San Diego moves him now for Pie and something else. Greene will probably make $11M in the next 2 seasons. The only problem is that Fukudome signed specifically to play RF. The stories claim that is why he picked the Cubs over the White Sox. Unless you convince Soriano to play CF, the Cubs would need a CF. I agree with some of the other posts about Murton, Cedeno, plus Marshall (?). If the Byrd deal doesn't work, it would be nice to expand the deal to get Hairston as a 4th OF.

I think Santo is just picking up on Hendry's comment of 2 more deals. As for the "you will like these moves" quote, I think it's just Santo being the eternal optimist, not inside information.

I would rather have Fukudome or DeRosa 2nd: Soriano Soriano Fukudome DeRosa Lee Lee Ramirez Ramirez DeRosa Fukudome Soto Soto Theriot Theriot Pie Pie

Those players would be great, but the Burnett speculation centered on DeRosa and Dempster with DeRosa being available because of the Roberts trade. I wonder what other options for a Burnett trade there are if DeRosa is not part of the trade package. I'm sure the Cubs aren't going to play Theriot and Cedeno at SS and 2B.

Until tomorrow. The only way this deal (and this thread) is dead is if Roberts is traded to another team, until then it's alive and well.

Compete for 3rd place.

So, what was the answer to the pitcher with 300 strikeouts question?

J.R.Richard?