Backtobanks

I like. Is it that much less nasty with Piggy or Lahey instead of Marte? Or with Leiber in long relief and Hart in short relief? Especially when whoever gets the final pen spot will be basically the 25th man on the roster? Is it that much less nasty to pay more in money and prospects to upgrade it? That's the same point people make for not making the Roberts' trade. Getting Marte makes a good bullpen better. Of course, everything depends on cost. It's completely different. You are talking about getting better for 1 inning at a time, 70 games a year. With Roberts you are getting a 9-inning/ 150 game per year player. It's completely the same. You take a good situation and upgrade it to make it better. That 1 inning at a time, 70 games a year possibly could make a swing of 8-10 wins depending on the situation. I could argue the VORP of Roberts over DeRosa is less than the VORP of Marte over Pignatello or Cotts. I repeat, you make a good situation better in either case. lol Roberts in 2007 - 48.6 Derosa in 2007 - 21.3 Marte, in what was basically a career year, vorped 15.7 In other words, no. And Piggy/Cotts VORP is probably negative 70. Also, Eyre has more than his share of ups and downs in the bullpen. My original post was to check out the availability of Marte because he would add depth and a 2nd lefty to a good bullpen in order to give Lou more options. I agree that I wouldn't overpay for him, but it certainly wouldn't hurt having a good lefty in the bullpen regardless of the efficiency of the righties.

I like. Is it that much less nasty with Piggy or Lahey instead of Marte? Or with Leiber in long relief and Hart in short relief? Especially when whoever gets the final pen spot will be basically the 25th man on the roster? Is it that much less nasty to pay more in money and prospects to upgrade it? That's the same point people make for not making the Roberts' trade. Getting Marte makes a good bullpen better. Of course, everything depends on cost. It's completely different. You are talking about getting better for 1 inning at a time, 70 games a year. With Roberts you are getting a 9-inning/ 150 game per year player. It's completely the same. You take a good situation and upgrade it to make it better. That 1 inning at a time, 70 games a year possibly could make a swing of 8-10 wins depending on the situation. I could argue the VORP of Roberts over DeRosa is less than the VORP of Marte over Pignatello or Cotts. I repeat, you make a good situation better in either case.

Gee, and Baltimore fans wonder why they suck every year in and out. Until Angelos stop meddling around, Baltimore won't be a very good baseball team for awhile. Angelos is a George Steinbrenner wanna-be. Even if all the rumored players are involved in the trade, Baltimore will still suck even if they make this trade. When the smoke clears and Roberts is traded to the Cubs, all Baltimore will have gotten for Miguel Tejada, Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts is Adam Jones and a bunch of guys who may or may not piece together a decent major league career. There is plenty of reason for Angelos to balk on this deal. I say screw it if they don't like the offers currently out there. Promote Eric Patterson and let him platoon at 2b with DeRosa. This frees up DeRosa to sub at other positions and slowly grooms Patterson at 2b, mostly facing RHP. The combination of Patterson and DeRosa is probably not all that far off from what Roberts can provide, but for less money over less years. When Baltimore is in last place on July 31 and they still have Brian Roberts, and Roberts is miserable and is speaking loudly that he wants to be traded, maybe the demands will soften and maybe Patterson will have increased his trade value. I'm not ready to start thinking about backup plans just yet. I'm still sticking to an opening day deadline, but I don't have a problem with putting a little pressure on the O's to make a choice. Roberts Fukudome Any back up plan you can come up with won't match the production you would get with Roberts and Fukudome batting 1,2. That's a whole lot of OBP and speed on the bases with DLee, Aram, and Soriano to follow. We've been begging for OBP at the top of the order for a long time now. We are one transaction away from having it. I know people are getting impatient, but I also feel some folks are undervalueing what Roberts would bring to our offense. I doubt that Lou will bat Roberts and Fukudome 1, 2 because he wants to seperate the lefties in the lineup. I would think it would be Roberts and then Soriano, with Fukudome batting 5th. You're probably right. I could be wrong, but everyone 1-5 seemed to have pretty good splits. Soriano in the 2 hole will decrease the OBP in front of Lee and Aram. Fukudome will probably be more OBP than power, so he makes better sense in the 2 hole to me. Two table setters in Front of Lee, Aram, Soriano. If Lee doesn't drive anyone in, he'll clog bases with decent speed and a .400 OBP. The same for Aram with his .360 ish OBP. Soriano in the 5 hole can just mash, his low OBP and power would be a good fit here. I don't disagree that Roberts and Fukudome would be great at the top, but the Cubs seem to really emphasize splitting up the lefties.

Barrett would rake in that ballpark, I think. You mean they want him for the grounds crew? =D>

I like. Is it that much less nasty with Piggy or Lahey instead of Marte? Or with Leiber in long relief and Hart in short relief? Especially when whoever gets the final pen spot will be basically the 25th man on the roster? Is it that much less nasty to pay more in money and prospects to upgrade it? That's the same point people make for not making the Roberts' trade. Getting Marte makes a good bullpen better. Of course, everything depends on cost.

Gee, and Baltimore fans wonder why they suck every year in and out. Until Angelos stop meddling around, Baltimore won't be a very good baseball team for awhile. Angelos is a George Steinbrenner wanna-be. Even if all the rumored players are involved in the trade, Baltimore will still suck even if they make this trade. When the smoke clears and Roberts is traded to the Cubs, all Baltimore will have gotten for Miguel Tejada, Erik Bedard and Brian Roberts is Adam Jones and a bunch of guys who may or may not piece together a decent major league career. There is plenty of reason for Angelos to balk on this deal. I say screw it if they don't like the offers currently out there. Promote Eric Patterson and let him platoon at 2b with DeRosa. This frees up DeRosa to sub at other positions and slowly grooms Patterson at 2b, mostly facing RHP. The combination of Patterson and DeRosa is probably not all that far off from what Roberts can provide, but for less money over less years. When Baltimore is in last place on July 31 and they still have Brian Roberts, and Roberts is miserable and is speaking loudly that he wants to be traded, maybe the demands will soften and maybe Patterson will have increased his trade value. I'm not ready to start thinking about backup plans just yet. I'm still sticking to an opening day deadline, but I don't have a problem with putting a little pressure on the O's to make a choice. Roberts Fukudome Any back up plan you can come up with won't match the production you would get with Roberts and Fukudome batting 1,2. That's a whole lot of OBP and speed on the bases with DLee, Aram, and Soriano to follow. We've been begging for OBP at the top of the order for a long time now. We are one transaction away from having it. I know people are getting impatient, but I also feel some folks are undervalueing what Roberts would bring to our offense. I doubt that Lou will bat Roberts and Fukudome 1, 2 because he wants to seperate the lefties in the lineup. I would think it would be Roberts and then Soriano, with Fukudome batting 5th.

Doesn't hurt to ask.

I've suggested going after him for quite awhile. The latest from Jason Stark: My own guess at some useful relievers who may be available: Damaso Marte, Joe Nathan, Jamie Walker, Chad Bradford, Huston Street, Alan Embree, Kevin Gregg, Jon Rauch, and Chad Cordero. He would give us the loogy that we need. I'm not sure what we would have to give up, but it might be worth it in our "win it now" mode.

Taking on his $4.5MM salary is the key phrase here. Any team that would take on a player the calibur of Uribe for $4.5MM isnt thinking stright, especially if its one in a major rebuilding phase. Over at the Orioles Hangout, they had discussed trading Payton (if he didn't come to the Cubs) for Uribe. I think Payton makes app. $5 million, so it would come out about even salary wise.

I would expect the Orioles to grab him within hours, since they were talking about trading for him.

On the Orioles Hangout, some of the posters are proposing names like Votto, Bailey, Bruce, Cuerto, Encarnacion, etc. for Hernandez. #-o

Get the Roberts' deal done and let BRob, Theriot, and Pie steal the bases.

Woo, another 10 days These "experts" or "insiders" keep predicting "in 10 days", "next week", "very soon", "before opening day", etc. When the trade does happen, then you'll see all of them taking credit for calling it right.

The Roberts' trade could have an effect on Cintron. Cedeno sounds like a certainty and Patterson is a maybe in the offer.

I really like Murton, but he can't play CF and that's where the Cubs need somebody. Also (assuming the Roberts trade happens), DeRosa and Ward can cover the corner OF positions. Fukudome has said he would fill in at CF if asked, but he picked the Cubs because he was told it would be as a RF. It's a shame Soriano doesn't want any part of CF because Murton/ Soriano/ Fukudome would be a very productive OF if Pie flops. I guess the best solution would involve Pie being successful in CF and then everything else falls into place.

Well, the question was "What would it take to get Spilborghs?", so what would be a good price? Those numbers still aren't bad for what we're looking for (RH- 3 OF positions) plus he's still cheap and not a real threat to take Pie's job.

Ryan Spilborghs looks like the perfect fit for what Hendry wants: right-handed, plays all 3 OF positions, hits with power. Against lefties: .338(BA) .395(OBP) .510(SLUG) .905(OBS) He is their 4th OF, but I don't know if he would be available. How about Murton + Marshall for Spilborghs?

You have to think if you are the Orioles. Why would they trade Roberts for a downgrade at the position in addition to yet another back end guy for their rotation that would probably get shelled in their division? While I'm not agreeing that Marshall and Patterson is enough for Roberts, the Orioles are going no place for the next 2-3 years with or without Roberts. Marshall would certainly step into their rotation (#3-#5) and Patterson would probably start at 2B for them. Both of these guys would play and be under their control for quite a few years. Add that to the fact you save $12 million over the next two years on Roberts' contract and you might make a decent point.

We can argue about giving up our 3 top pitching prospects for Roberts, but that won't upset me half as much as giving up any pitching in this deal: Cubs Still Talking To Rangers About Byrd MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan writes today that the Cubs' talks for Marlon Byrd still have some life. Not much has changed - the Cubs would give up Matt Murton, but the Rangers want young pitching.

I said: How is my statement that everything prior to 2000 is irrelevant wrong? I'm not going to defend our track record on developing hitters over the past 10 years - it's not possible. However, listing every 1st round pick since 1965 is most certainly not relevant to the discussion. You can use the 1st round draft picks in the 1965-1980 to trade to the Giants or send to the Reds (Dusty will find a place for them).

Piniella: Cubs pitchers will bat 9th Cubs manager Lou Piniella was talking about the importance of the eighth spot in the lineup and used the examples of the Cardinals' Tony La Russa and Milwaukee's Ned Yost batting the pitcher there. "Thank God I haven't been hit with those questions here," Piniella said. Which, of course, prompted the question. "We'll just leave the pitcher right where he's at, and we'll let Tony and Ned do what they want," Piniella said. "I like it the conventional way." -- Chicago Tribune :lol:

I assume by the other thread, you mean "The Infamous 2nd Trade" thread. That thread was basically asking what the original two trades were and what happened to the second trade. I am assuming the 2nd deal (whatever it was) is dead. This post is wondering what moves will happen as a result of the Roberts deal.

Assuming the offer of Gallagher, Cedeno, Veal, and Ceda for Roberts happens, I would think there would be another deal (or 2) that would have to be made. Obviously, the Cubs would still need at least a backup CF and a loogy. If the deal is expanded to include Payton (and Marquis?), then you would certainly have to deal Murton someplace. As much as I like DeRosa, I loved the idea posted awhile back of DeRosa plus Dempster for Burnett. With Cintron, Patterson, and Payton, I would think DeRosa is expendable. Possibly one of those West Coast teams in need of a 3B would consider DeRosa. He's miles ahead of Inge and a better bet than a recovering Crede.

The optimist in me hopes you are right, but the realist in me says the deal is for just Roberts or Roberts and Payton.

When the "people in the know" said he was working on two deals that would make people happy, I certainly don't think names like Byrd or Crisp would cause people to pre-order WS tickets. To make people happy, I would think it would have to be Figgins or Burnett and possibly Nathan in addition to the Roberts deal.