Backtobanks

Two of these proposals give us 2 prospects. I would think Garza should net us at least 3.

The latest Darvish rumors (i.e. made-up stuff from reporters) is that the Cubs' $20-millionish bid was more in line with everyone but Texas's. The latest Darvish rumors (i.e. made-up stuff from reporters) is that the Cubs' $20-millionish bid was more in line with everyone but Texas's. From MLBTR: Rangers Won Darvish Bidding Easily By Ben Nicholson-Smith [December 21 at 10:33pm CST] The Rangers won the rights to Japanese right-hander Yu Darvish with a $51.7MM bid this week and though the Toronto Star reported yesterday that the Blue Jays weren't far behind, reports today indicate the Rangers outbid rival teams by a significant margin. Jeff Blair said this morning on Sportsnet 590 the FAN that the Blue Jays "did not bid $50MM, as the Toronto Star is reporting. That's totally, absolutely false and inaccurate" (hat tip Drunk Jays Fans). Buster Olney of ESPN.com believes the Blue Jays were in, but not close and suggests “nobody, including Toronto, was within country miles” of the Rangers’ bid (Twitter links). Jon Heyman of CBSSports.com agrees that no one else was close. The Rangers easily out-bid the Blue Jays and the Yankees bid in the $15-17MM range, according to Heyman. Darvish posted a 1.44 ERA with 10.7 K/9 and 1.4 BB/9 in 232 innings this past season and he hasn't posted an ERA above 2.00 since 2007. The Rangers have until January 18th to work out a deal with him. If the sides don't agree to a deal by next month's deadline, Darvish will stay in Japan and the Nippon Ham Fighters won't obtain any cash from the Rangers. The way I interpret this report is that the Rangers easily beat out the Blue Jays (2nd in bidding) and the Yankees (3rd in the bidding) who bid $15-$17 million, so the best that the Cubs could do was come in 4th at less than $15-$17 million. I stand by my statement that Theo's bid was a joke since everyone was assuming the winning bid would be around $50 million.

The question is, judging by what we have now in the big leagues and the farm, how long will it take to build a consistant winner? I know a lot of us grew up watching God awful temas, but that was before we got a taste of what it was like to root for a team that could actually win, and do it in more than 1 season at a time. Unless they push hard to acquire some top prospects and international guys like Cespedes and Solar, things are going to get ugly. Exactly what I've been saying. Assuming everything goes right, I don't see a "decent" team until 2014. If a few things go wrong (Brett Jackson not delivering as hoped, missing out on the Cubans, Stewart not delivering, etc.), it could be ugly through 2015.

It's the 2nd month, and it's almost the 3rd. And those were the two most important months of the year for putting together any semblence of a competitive team in 2012. . Aside from Darvish, the main guys we were speculating on signing are all still on the market, 2 of which aren't even officially available. I know everyone wanted Pujols, but even if we was an outside option, once Marlins, Cardinals, and finally Angels offers were made we werent going to come near that. If moves I don't like happen, I'll be right with everyone else bitching about them, but I'm not going to turn on Eptein and Hoyer just yet. If the Opening day roster looks anything like it does now, it will be hard to swallow, but we I'll give him until at least next year around this time. The fact is that our farm system alone isnt going to get us anywhere anytime soon. As far as near big league ready guys go, we have Lake, Vitters, Jackson, and McNutt. However, the guys we're really relying on are between 17-19 and at least 3-5 away from the big leagues, and who knows how many of them will even make it to AA. Will Theo make a serious bid on the 2 Cubans? His bid on Darvish must have been a joke by the accounts that I've read.

The first two didn't strongly impact our chances of contending, I don't think. Stewart could be horrid, but could be pretty good too. DeJesus would actually be exactly the type of productive value player we'd need to offset bringing in impact FAs and paying them as such. The reason this team has basically no chance to contend next year and very little chance in 2013 is passing on Darvish and Pujols, and possibly Prince. This team needs impact players in order to be able to contend, and two of the three that would have fit this team are off the board and there's very realistic doubt that we'll be involved with the third. Yes, Stewart COULD be good. There's a better chance that he sucks. A big market team that's interested in contending doesn't count on a player like that to play a corner infield position. I agree with your point on DeJesus, if we were actually interested in surrounding him with impact FAs. Which to this point, there is no indication that we are doing. The Cubs are going to HAVE to spend on free agents eventually. Next time, we probably won't be so lucky that both the Yankees and Red Sox won't be in on any of them. I don't have a problem with DeJesus, but selling off everything for prospects that might be good in 3-4 years doesn't seem like the answer to a big market team. Not only might the Yankees and Red Sox be in on future FAs, but you also give the Cards and Brewers time to rebound from the loss of their sluggers.

Is that new? My twitter says that's new. The Chicago Tribune article made it sound like someone had stepped in and banned the Cubs from any further Red Sox hires. It makes a whole lot more sense that the Cubs and Sox agreed on that arrangement and that must be considered part of the compensation. http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-report-cubs-facing-ban-on-more-red-sox-hires-20111220,0,7066821.story After I saw this notice, I saw that Theo hired 3 scouts from the Red Sox. :lol:

Well put. It seems like people are more upset about this because Theo and Jed did it and not Hendry. Fact is, Hendry gave $900,000 to a guy coming of a 74 OPS+ season, and while I thought the $1.5 was legit (my bad) it seems like they might give him what... $1.2 or $1.3 million... after a 122 OPS+ season? I don't expect Johnson to fully recreate those numbers one iota, but we could do a whole lot worse, and there aren't many options out there that can do a whole lot better at the price. The fact is there are better options out there for approximately $1 million more - Andruw Jones. I understand many posters remaining positive (or trying to), but if we're being honest Theo/Hoyer has sucked this offseason and "rebuilding" has pushed back "contending" for probably an additional 2 years. While you're listing all of the accomplishments, let's not forget that he passed up Darvish, probably Fielder, Pujols, etc. Now if he manages to sign the 2 Cubans and pull off a big trade or two, then we can talk about a good offseason. Yes he did pass on Pojuls, for 10/270, who will be 34 years old by the time we can put together a really good team around him. he passed taking a risk on a starter for likely close to 20 mil a year. Who will only have 2 years left on his deal by the time we build a really good team around him. He hasn't passed on Fielder yet. By the moves he's making so far, Castro will be 34 years old by the time we can put together a really good team around him. :lol:

Well put. It seems like people are more upset about this because Theo and Jed did it and not Hendry. Fact is, Hendry gave $900,000 to a guy coming of a 74 OPS+ season, and while I thought the $1.5 was legit (my bad) it seems like they might give him what... $1.2 or $1.3 million... after a 122 OPS+ season? I don't expect Johnson to fully recreate those numbers one iota, but we could do a whole lot worse, and there aren't many options out there that can do a whole lot better at the price. The fact is there are better options out there for approximately $1 million more - Andruw Jones. I understand many posters remaining positive (or trying to), but if we're being honest Theo/Hoyer has sucked this offseason and "rebuilding" has pushed back "contending" for probably an additional 2 years. While you're listing all of the accomplishments, let's not forget that he passed up Darvish, probably Fielder, Pujols, etc. Now if he manages to sign the 2 Cubans and pull off a big trade or two, then we can talk about a good offseason.

So he's Joey Gathright/Felix Pie reincarnated. Wait, don't we already have Tony Campana? what the [expletive] does he actually have in common with Felix Pie??? Speed, strikes out twice as often as he walks, no power.

How is this "breaking news"? Theo has been dumpster diving for the last few weeks and has offered to trade anyone that anyone will take (except Castro). As for Fielder, any of you posters who think we've been serious bidders have been smoking something.

So far Theo has Hendry beat by a mile in the category "Worst Offseason by a GM".

Theo's a great shopper. Just think that for a little more money he could have signed Andruw Jones and would have been stuck with a guy who can play all 3 OF positions and actually has a little power.

So he's Joey Gathright/Felix Pie reincarnated. Wait, don't we already have Tony Campana?

Part of Theo's plan.

I'm not too bummed that he didn't do that. It was a good deal for the Padres, but I don't know how much sense Grandal makes for us and he's chip number 2. Grandal opens up the possibility of trading Soto (for decent prospects), while Boxberger/Carpenter/Cashner compete for the closer's role freeing up Marmol as a trade chip (for decent prospects). Obviously Alonso takes over 1B and Wood slides into the back of the rotation. Is Latos that much better than Garza that we hve to give up both he and Marshall for essentially the same package -Volquez /+Wood? Probably not, but everybody loves to jump all over me if I propose a deal that favors the Cubs so I left it favoring the Reds.

I'm not too bummed that he didn't do that. It was a good deal for the Padres, but I don't know how much sense Grandal makes for us and he's chip number 2. Grandal opens up the possibility of trading Soto (for decent prospects), while Boxberger/Carpenter/Cashner compete for the closer's role freeing up Marmol as a trade chip (for decent prospects). Obviously Alonso takes over 1B and Wood slides into the back of the rotation.

I had no interest in Crisp whatsoever before that rumor, it just made me want him even less. I guess I'm just confused about what's going on. Do we want young players and prospects or do we want Crisp, Varitek, and Wakefield? Both. "Parallel fronts" and all that. Obviously you aren't intelligent enough to comprehend the almighty Theo's plan. :lol:

While Theo takes his time to analyze everything, 4 days ago he probably could have traded Garza and Marshall to the Reds for Boxberger, Grandal, Wood, and Alonso.

If this is the first of "trading off our assets", I guess we can assume Fielder won't be a Cub. Starting to feel like the Cubs of the 1950s when the only drama was whether they could escape the cellar.

The Yankees always had Marshall on their radar. I guess it's too late to speculate what we might get from them.

I find this kind of thinking insane. Expensive free agents are expensive because they are really good and help teams win games. As a big market team, the Cubs can afford them and should employ them. There is no reason for this rebuiliding to be some multi-year task where we are forced to live with the garbage that is currently on the roster just because some people get off on the supposed purity of building solely from within. Signing good expensive free agents does nothing to prevent you from building up a farm system. Throwing away seasons is inexcusable. Where did he mention throwing away seasons? Why are you so hell bent that management is throwing away 2012 because we haven't signed a big name? Look at the roster as it stands now (without signing a big FA) and tell me management isn't throwing away 2012. True, but that's largely because Hendry was a failed GM for a decade before this season. Theo is not. I do not like what they have done (or failed to do) so far, but I do believe he can still turn this into a winning organization. There's no doubt Theo can turn this into a winning organization, but the question is when will it happen. If he's going to take 3 more years, then let me be the first to say Theo is a failure. Hendry wasn't the best GM, but he did get 3 postseason appearances and might have had more without tons of injuries.

I'm amazed at the number of people that are still caught up in the Theo hype. Quit blaming Ricketts, Wrigley field, or whatever. There's money to be spent and Ricketts turned all baseball decisions over to Theo. The buck stops on Theo's desk. It's starting to look like he's already working on getting his new contract because he's going to be close to a decent team when it's ready to be renewed. So far the 2012 Cubs look to be a 70 win team with the Cards and Brewers losing their power bats. So we trade all of our tradable assets this year for prospects and push our next winning back for 2 more years (assuming that all our our prospects become stars which isn't likely). For all of you that don't want to overpay for some overpriced FA, just realize that Theo is going to have to make Soriano-type contract offers to FAs next year. My expectations of Theo were that he would field a decent team in 2012 followed by a consistent contender in 2013 and beyond. There would be 1000 pages ripping Hendry if he did this little by now.

Well it looks like we're not going to add any stars this offseason which means we have to add 4 next offseason in addition to filling the new holes we will have by then.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-your-morning-phil-yankees-cespedes-hamilton-20111220,0,5791888.story So we now know that Theo's plan is to suck for 2 more years and then be a factor in the NL Central race. I suppose we can look forward to a WS Championship by 2025.

So your goal is trying to win in 2020 (maybe)?