MSG T

I remember thinking " yes, got rid of DeJesus and got Bowa" didn't have a clue who Sandberg was. Pretty decent trade.

To give Theriot protection??

More than Theriot hitting 2nd? Or are you saying it irritates you because Theriot should be hitting 8th?

I'd have to go with Ruth. He was a top pitcher before becoming an everyday player, and he was, from everything I heard, a good RF before he ate eleventy billion hot dogs and 50 beers per day. If not Ruth, then Mays. I'd have to go with those two as 1 and 1A.

If this isn't sarcasm, who would you suggest they get? Cause the only ones better than him, and there aren't many, aren't going anywhere for a long, long time.

They could always bring back Hector Villenueva as his personal trainer. Get him on the "Hector Villenueva Eat To Be Free Diet". :D

Why is it no big deal if people like Aramis take part in [expletive] fighting and Michael Vick is massacred for dog fighting? I realize the differences, the legal issue, the fact that Vick was the ringleader in his case, but to say 'who cares' to cockfighting ignores the issue of why these 'sports' are illegal in the US - they are inhumane. The difference in the two is that Aramis, Pedro and/or whoever else was involved, wouldn't be facing jail time, assuming they were participating where it's legal. Does it put him in a good light? No. Is it an inhumane entertainment choice? Yes. Does it give his detractors something else to complain about? Yes. But in the long run, it's really not that big of a deal. If it were shown that there's a big ring of Latin American ballplayers running cockfighting here in the US, then yes, it would, and should, turn into a big deal. But since I've seen nothing that even suggests that is a possibility, then no big deal. BTW, I'd love for countries that allow fighting ( and the betting on) of any kind of animals, including bullfighting, to see just how distgusting of an activity it is and ban all of it. But I'm not going to crucify any of the people involved for doing something that's legal where they were participating. I wouldn't have crucified Vick if he had participated in dog fighting in a place where it's legal. Would you blast someone for going to Amsterdam and doing something that's legal there, if they didn't bring those activities back with them to the US?

We're supposed to be going down the last week of March. I'm excited as hell, and it will be a nice change since I walked out of my house this morning into -10 degree temps. I hate winter, but ST makes JAN and FEB worth it.

Dear Meph, =D> Thanks for the explanation. I always understood the stat in general, but not how they determined each of the values.

Take the blue pill.

*AHEM* http://images.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/_photos/2003-06-03-sosa-lower-inside.jpg To be fair, that's a little different than Sammy being proven to have used steroids. Did he use steroids? I don't know, I'd like to think there would be some pretty definitive evidence if he had, since he's 5th in HR now. Maybe he just hid it better than Bonds and Roger? Who knows, but they aren't going after him the way they have a few others. You'd think if there was evidence, it would be as looked as the others.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

His 2007 line against lefties of .225/.269/.494 is downright awful. And there's one less lefty in that division this week (Santana). I think the Tigers will come out of this okay. I didn't say the Tigers didn't do alright with this signing, I just said, Granderson now needs to hit lefties at a better clip, to be worth the money he's getting. When your lead off CF is hitting 84 XBH's per season and posting a 136 OPS+, who cares how well or bad he hits lefties? I'd be happy with Pie putting up a .750 OPS against lefties this year, since that would probably mean he's 100 points higher against righties( in many more PA's against those righties).

Since I don't have anything of quality to add to the Roberts discussion, of course neither does anyone else, I would like to say... GR, how do the Dogs keep pulling those games out? I've watched a couple of the games on the Connections channel, and they keep pulling victory out of the jaws of defeat. It's looking like they only have a couple of tough games left to run the table. There's an outside shot both they and Butler are Top 10 when they play on the 23rd. Should be a great game. I don't know. They're my alma mater, but I never get to watch the games and I don't watch ESPN or any other highlight show anymore, so all I get is the box score & recaps. They do have some talent this year, which they haven't had for a while. I'd love to see them run the table the rest of the way and actually get a team in the tourney that they have a chance to beat. If Young, Korver, Houston, Emmenecker and Cox can stay healthy, they'll go places. If one has a down game the others pick the team up. It seems like they spend the first half figuring out who's on and who's not, then they spend the second half feeding whoever is hot. All of those guys have carried them at some point this year. I'm not a big fan of theirs, but I am happy for the school and fans, they haven't had much to be happy about since Lloyd and Kreklow. Even if it's a one year thing, I'm still happy for them. BTW, my cousin played football there for Chuck Shelton. He was on the same team as Yagelski and Dunsmore.

Since I don't have anything of quality to add to the Roberts discussion, of course neither does anyone else, I would like to say... GR, how do the Dogs keep pulling those games out? I've watched a couple of the games on the Connections channel, and they keep pulling victory out of the jaws of defeat. It's looking like they only have a couple of tough games left to run the table. There's an outside shot both they and Butler are Top 10 when they play on the 23rd. Should be a great game.

He was worth that. I find myself very much at odds with the philosophy that we should be concerned with winning at all costs. Some of us take our kids to see these games. That is the large part of the appeal to baseball. It is something that you can share with your son or daughter. While it is wrong of us to expect these players to be more than human, I would like them to set examples of fair play and good behavior. What those standards of behavior are will probably never be entirely clear, but they should exist. Hitler would be worth the price of winning??? That is just plain wrong. As far as the Bonds thing, if they hadn't won in , say, 25 years, I'd agree with you, build it up and do it right. But we're talking 100 years here. My grandma was a Cubs fan, she died last fall at 96 years old and wasn't alive when they last won the WS. I don't want to go my lifetime without seeing the Cubs lift that trophy. If it could be worked out, I'd say do it. Unfortunately Hendry won't even consider it. That's a shame. As for Hitler, it was a joke to prove a point. ...and what a joke. I am sure that your grandmother, or mother, who still wears the numbers tattooed into her arm from her days in the concentration camp had a big laugh over it. But given that your sense of humor is different than mine, I disagree with the whole winning at any cost theory. I do not buy into the fact that nice guys always finish last. That the reason for the Cubs not winning a World series is that they have been too nice. I think it has more to do with poor leadership. The Cubs can be a winning team can still be loveable. I do not buy into the theory that says you can ignore a players charactor as long as they have talent. The Portland Trailblazers tried that for several years. Signing players whom other teams would not due to charactor concerns. What they ended up with was a bunch of players who were continually in problems with the law and a seriously eroding fan base. (Look daddy my favorite player is in court facing drug charges again daddy. I want to be just like him). They have now seen the light. I also think Tampa Bay was right to unload Young and Dukes. So I do agree that we cannot expect players to be more than human. Everyone has issues. Just because someone can throw a ball 100 mph or hit it 500 feet does not mean that they should be a role model for the nation's kids. But there are limits. Well, first, my grandma lost a husband and son because of Hitler, so I would have a pretty good reason to be offended, if it was meant that way. Second, maybe you haven't been paying attention, but the Cubs have fielded many teams over the years that were full of good guys. That's the problem, I want good players. If they are great guys, fantastic, if they are like Bonds, great, I don't care. I want them to get the best players they can and win. They aren't doing that, and haven't for way more years than they should have.

;) Although I'd have loved to see him resign, I'm going to laugh when he debuts as basically a Sept. call-up.

Sign him and platoon him with Murton? Get Barry 110-120 games. Murton gets 40-50 in LF, plus another 30-40 in normal 4th OF use. Barry gets roughly 450 PA's and Murton gets roughly 300-350 PA's( a good % against LHP). The offense that OF would provide would be incredible. Since were in Fantasyland already, don't get Roberts and instead work a deal involving Murton to the Pads and get Greene. If they have Pie still, between CF and LF, use him against RHP( since Bonds hits LHP way better than Felix), and he should put up decent numbers. Then throw in Greene destroying the numbers Theriot will put up, and you still have a fantastic offense. OK, I'll now return to wondering what the Cubs will do at mid-season when Theriot does suck, Pie might suck, Murton and Cedeno are gone, DeRo is stuck on the bench and they are wondering who they can get since Marquis sucks, Dempster is hurt, Gallagher is pitching great in Baltimore and Marshall is being ignored.

He was worth that. I find myself very much at odds with the philosophy that we should be concerned with winning at all costs. Some of us take our kids to see these games. That is the large part of the appeal to baseball. It is something that you can share with your son or daughter. While it is wrong of us to expect these players to be more than human, I would like them to set examples of fair play and good behavior. What those standards of behavior are will probably never be entirely clear, but they should exist. Hitler would be worth the price of winning??? That is just plain wrong. As far as the Bonds thing, if they hadn't won in , say, 25 years, I'd agree with you, build it up and do it right. But we're talking 100 years here. My grandma was a Cubs fan, she died last fall at 96 years old and wasn't alive when they last won the WS. I don't want to go my lifetime without seeing the Cubs lift that trophy. If it could be worked out, I'd say do it. Unfortunately Hendry won't even consider it. That's a shame. As for Hitler, it was a joke to prove a point.

Yeah, I'm sure they'll take whoever Hendry demands they take. Why not just make them take Marquis and Dempster. :roll: I like the thought of 2 for 1 much better, particularly if it doesn't involve Pie or Marshall AND Gallagher. One of those two and Colvin I wouldn't have a problem with. However, any takers on that being the actual deal, and if so, Angelos actually accepting it.

If this is indeed what is holding the trade i would imagine that the deal can be announced tomorrow or saturday. If the mariners fix the paperwork this afternoon i would imagine Sherill and Jones would get check by the orioles tomorrow and then the deal would get announced. Anyway i can't imagine what the reaction would be in here if Roberts gets traded to the indians the next day after Bedard is gone. :lol: We'd have to keep the other thread going in perpetuity, in honor of the legendary status of a 150+ page thread on a trade that didn't happen. Kind of an alternative universe 72 Dolphins toasting champagne when the last team loses every year. BTW, are they going to quit doing that crap if the Pats win?

I'll be shocked if either are correct, but if it helps other by eliminating possibilities...

CCP, I pretty much agree with your assessment, I was just trying to alter what was already there to something a little more appealing. Giving up Hill to get Bedard makes no sense. They'd need to add Bedard without losing Hill to improve the starting staff. Getting Byrd doesn't thrill me. I'd rather they just get Lofton. Adding Roberts at the cost( at least on the field) of DeRo, while keeping Theriot in the lineup doesn't help offensively as much as replacing Theriot with someone good and keeping DeRo. I was only trying to tweat his proposal somewhat, not coming up with one that I thought was any more acceptable to all the teams involved.

I like this much better.