It's funny you say that Rob. The sentence you're referring to from my post originally said something like "typical messageboard poster", but I changed it to "casual fan" to tone it down a notch. Regardless, it's semantics, and if there is any meaningful distinction, the point I'm making applies to both groups. I really think you have a very warped view of what the anti-saber crowd is. The anti-saber crowd has been and always will be those who want nothing but "traditional" baseball. Sac bunts, the hit and run, team chemistry, batting average, grittiness, playing the game the right way, RBIs, etc... these are the tenets of the anti-saber crowd. The vast majority of them are still opposing the merit of OBP as more important than batting average or RBI. To find this sort of person, one needs only to look as far as the local sports bar, listen to talk radio, or as depressing as this is to say... watch or listen to any broadcast games (God bless Len Kasper for being one of a kind, but Bob is still old school.) You seem to have it in your head that the argument has evolved to the point that rallying against the use of stats people don't really understand is considered anti-saber. It isn't. If you feel you've been accused of that, you either interpreted it incorrectly or the accuser is/was a moron. That book you were so intent on defending? It isn't telling people that since WARP was using an obviously incorrect baseline for replacement level fielding that it was artificially boosting the value of guys like Adam Dunn while deflating it for guys like Adam Everett, hence leading the common fan to adopt something more of a mentality that disregarded speed and defense as ways to add significant value. It's telling people that it doesn't matter who our fancy computers think are good players because we can't predict with any degree of certainly what's going to happen in any given at bat. It's just a whole book that serves as a testament to the fact that they don't understand small sample sizes aren't bound to fall in line with big-picture projections. Yes, people need to understand stats better. No, that's not anti-saber of me to say so. Anti-saber is saying people don't need to understand the stats better because they don't matter. =D>