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Crap. Looks like we have GOT to tie things up this year. Next year will be a BITCH. 10-6 is something to shoot for. Anything better and i'll feel reaaaaaaaal positive about the postseason. Hopefully our helpless division rivals wont make any huge strides and we'll still be able to take the division down easy. Why are you worried? Everyone's assuming next year we'll be bad for some reason. Looking at those teams, there's only one that I could see the Bears having nearly no shot to beat---SD. The rest? Flawed teams just like all the rest, who the Bears should have a decent shot at. We could easily go 11-5, 12-4 on that schedule. We'll still be a team that has been together for longer than these other guys. One more year with most of our players in the same system = big dividends. Just like this year. I would tend to agree with that. While the Bears schedule has been incredibly easy this year (with yesterday's action, the Bears schedule holds a total of 3 opponents with winning records)-that doesn't mean however that making the schedule harder will automatically make a 13 or 14 win team a 9 win team. The Bears are still a very good team, and Grossman with another year under his belt should make the Bears 11 or 12 game winners next year at least.

There seems to be some dissension on that point. If the Jets win, Tennessee should still be able to get in with a Denver loss, a Cincy loss, and a KC win (assuming a Titans win for this scenario to work). With those 3 things happening, the divisional tiebreakers will go first to make sure that only 1 team from each division is in the tiebreaker-in that divisional tiebreaker, KC will eliminate Denver. Then, the Titans and KC will square off in their tiebreaker (with the Jets now at 10-6 and having the 5 seed), and the Titans will win the tiebreaker due to better conference record and will take the 6 seed. Even the experts can't seem to agree about the tiebreakers-everybody I've seen has a different opinion on them, but that's the way I and others have understood the tiebreakers to work.

This is a repost of the post made in the Week 17 NFL games thread: I thought it appropriate to be here as well. These are some playoff scenarios that I got off of a poster on the indystar board with his permission. Remember, these are unofficial scenarios, so they may have a mistake or two, but this guy really did his homework for these. Also, remember that this is before Monday night's games, so it takes the possible variables of those games into consideration. With those disclaimers out of the way, here it is: NFC: Chicago has clinched the #1, a first-round bye, and HFA. New Orleans has clinched at least the #3. They will clinch the #2 and a first-round bye w/ a win OR a Dallas loss tomorrow night, assuming the Cowboys beat Detroit next week at home. The only way the Saints lose the bye is if the Cowboys win BOTH of their last two games, and NO loses next week. Saints fans, root for a Dallas loss tomorrow, but if they win, NO is still good to go w/ a win on their own next week. Seattle has clinched the #4. They are the #4 no matter what. Dallas has clinched at least the #5. They can only lose the division and wind up #5 (assuming they beat Detroit next week again) if they lose to Philly tomorrow night AND Philly wins next week. So even if they lose tomorrow, they still win the division and get the #3 IF Philly loses next week. Cowboys clinch the #3 w/ a win tomorrow over Philly. They still have a shot at the #2 and a first-round bye, but they need to win BOTH of their last two games AND a New Orleans loss. The following teams have NOT clinched a playoff berth yet: Philly controls their own destiny for both a playoff berth and the division. They can clinch the #3 if they win BOTH of their last two games (assuming again Dallas beats Detroit). Even if they lose a game, all they have to do is win one of their last two and they will get the #5 at 9-7. The only trouble the Eagles can get into is if they lose both games and finish 8-8. Even so, they more than likely get in as they would need either a NY Giants loss OR a Carolina win, and they get the #6. If both happen, they get the #5 even at 8-8. The ONLY way Philly misses the playoffs is if they lose BOTH of their last two games, AND the NYG win next week AND Carolina loses next week. NY Giants are still in the best seat for the last spot. Even if the Giants lose, they can still get the #6 at 7-9 if ALL of the following happen: a Green Bay loss, AND a St. Louis loss, AND a Carolina loss, AND an Atlanta loss. Otherwise (and most likely), the Giants need to win next week AND "possibly" a Green Bay loss OR Philly to lose both of their games. The tiebreaker w/ Green Bay if they are 8-8 would come down to strength of victory and right now the NY Giants lead this category, but Green Bay COULD overtake them next week, maybe or maybe not. NY Giants would own the tiebreak over Philly. If they can overtake both teams, NY Giants can still finish as the #5. Green Bay is in the next best shape but still needs some help. They can ONLY get the #6 seed, as they cannot catch Philly like the Giants possibly still can. Obviously, Packers have to win their game next week. IF NY Giants win Saturday night, they need a win next week AND must overtake the NY Giants in the strength of victory tiebreaker (as mentioned above). IF NY Giants lose Saturday, they need a win AND a St. Louis loss. St. Louis needs a win and some help also. They can only get the #6 as they also cannot catch Philly. Obviously, the Rams have to win to have a chance. They also MUST get a NY Giants loss AND a Carolina loss AND an Atlanta loss. They DON'T need Packers to lose. Carolina also needs help, but not as much as St. Louis. They can only get the #6 seed. Obviously, the Panthers have to win their game. They need a win AND a NY Giants loss AND a Green Bay loss to get in. Atlanta needs even more help. Obviously, they have to win to have a chance. Atlanta DOES NOT need help from St. Louis, that's the good news. The bad is that they need a win AND a Carolina loss AND a Green Bay loss AND a NY Giants loss to get in. Additionally, if Atlanta makes it in based on that formula, they can still get the #5 if Philly loses both of their last two. Philly losses don't keep them from being eliminated though if any of those other teams win. AFC: San Diego has clinched at least the #2 and a first-round bye. They need a win OR a Baltimore loss to clinch the #1 and HFA. The only way they don't get HFA is if they lose (unlikely) and Baltimore wins. Baltimore has clinched at least the #3. They still have a shot at the #1 and HFA w/ a win AND a SD loss. More likely though, they control their own destiny for the #2 and a first-round bye. They get it w/ a win OR a Colts loss. The only way the Ravens lose the bye is if they lose and we win next week. Colts have clinched at least the #4 seed. We wind up #4 if we lose AND New England wins next week. So even if we lose, if NE also loses then we get the #3. We clinch the #3 w/ a win, but still have a shot at the bye. We get the #2 and a first-round bye w/ a win AND a Baltimore loss. New England has clinched at least the #4. The only way they can move up is to the #3 w/ a win AND a Colt's loss. The following teams have NOT clinched a playoff berth yet: Denver controls its own destiny. If they win, they are in (highly likely they will). Even if they lose, they still have a good shot at 9-7 but need either KC to lose to Jax OR one NYJ loss (tomorrow night to Miami is realistically only chance) and they get the #6. Would even still get the #5 if BOTH of those things happen. The only way the Broncos miss the playoffs is if they lose AND KC beats Jax and the NY Jets win both of their last two. NY Jets also control their own destiny. If they win BOTH of their last two, they are in w/ at least the #6 seed (could also still get the #5 if Denver loses next week). If they lose both games, they are out. If they split and go 9-7 (say a loss tomorrow night to Miami and then a win over lowly OAK next week) then they have a chance but need help. They would need 2 of the following 3 things to happen to make it (if all 3 happened they would get the #5): a Cincy loss, {a Denver loss AND a KC win}, {a Tennessee win OR Jax loss}. So if Denver wins (as is likely) the Jets would need a Cincy loss and either a Jax loss or a Tenn win to get in at 9-7. Cincinnati is in the best shape of the teams that DON'T control their own destiny. Obviously, they need a win. As for help, they need EITHER for the NY Jets to lose a game (only real chance tomorrow night) OR {Denver loss AND KC win}. So if Denver wins as they should or KC loses, basically Cincy's hopes come down to a loss tomorrow night by the Jets. Tennessee does not need help from Jax at least. Obviously, they have to win. They also need 2 of the following 3 things to happen (if all 3 happen they get the #5): a Cincy loss, NY Jets lose BOTH of their games, {a Denver loss AND a KC win}. Really a longshot, because their only hope rests on either Denver losing at home to San Fran or the Jets losing at home to the Raiders. Not likely, but there's still hope at least. Jacksonville can only get the #6 seed. They obviously must beat KC next week, plus ALL of the following. They need a win AND a Tennessee loss, AND Cincy loss, AND one NY Jets loss (only real chance is tomorrow night). If the Jets win tomorrow night, they need a lot of help including an Oakland win. Yuck. Kansas City must obviously beat Jax next week to have a chance. They also need 3 of the following 4 things to happen: a Denver loss, a Tennesee loss, a Cincy loss, NYJ lose BOTH of their last two games. So if Denver wins as expected and the Jets can beat Oakland as expected, KC can't do anything about their fate either. But, at least they are alive for now. So enjoy reading about all the crazy scenarios your around .500 team needs to make the playoffs

These are some playoff scenarios that I got off of a poster on the indystar board with his permission. Remember, these are unofficial scenarios, so they may have a mistake or two, but this guy really did his homework for these. Also, remember that this is before Monday night's games, so it takes the possible variables of those games into consideration. With those disclaimers out of the way, here it is: NFC: Chicago has clinched the #1, a first-round bye, and HFA. New Orleans has clinched at least the #3. They will clinch the #2 and a first-round bye w/ a win OR a Dallas loss tomorrow night, assuming the Cowboys beat Detroit next week at home. The only way the Saints lose the bye is if the Cowboys win BOTH of their last two games, and NO loses next week. Saints fans, root for a Dallas loss tomorrow, but if they win, NO is still good to go w/ a win on their own next week. Seattle has clinched the #4. They are the #4 no matter what. Dallas has clinched at least the #5. They can only lose the division and wind up #5 (assuming they beat Detroit next week again) if they lose to Philly tomorrow night AND Philly wins next week. So even if they lose tomorrow, they still win the division and get the #3 IF Philly loses next week. Cowboys clinch the #3 w/ a win tomorrow over Philly. They still have a shot at the #2 and a first-round bye, but they need to win BOTH of their last two games AND a New Orleans loss. The following teams have NOT clinched a playoff berth yet: Philly controls their own destiny for both a playoff berth and the division. They can clinch the #3 if they win BOTH of their last two games (assuming again Dallas beats Detroit). Even if they lose a game, all they have to do is win one of their last two and they will get the #5 at 9-7. The only trouble the Eagles can get into is if they lose both games and finish 8-8. Even so, they more than likely get in as they would need either a NY Giants loss OR a Carolina win, and they get the #6. If both happen, they get the #5 even at 8-8. The ONLY way Philly misses the playoffs is if they lose BOTH of their last two games, AND the NYG win next week AND Carolina loses next week. NY Giants are still in the best seat for the last spot. Even if the Giants lose, they can still get the #6 at 7-9 if ALL of the following happen: a Green Bay loss, AND a St. Louis loss, AND a Carolina loss, AND an Atlanta loss. Otherwise (and most likely), the Giants need to win next week AND "possibly" a Green Bay loss OR Philly to lose both of their games. The tiebreaker w/ Green Bay if they are 8-8 would come down to strength of victory and right now the NY Giants lead this category, but Green Bay COULD overtake them next week, maybe or maybe not. NY Giants would own the tiebreak over Philly. If they can overtake both teams, NY Giants can still finish as the #5. Green Bay is in the next best shape but still needs some help. They can ONLY get the #6 seed, as they cannot catch Philly like the Giants possibly still can. Obviously, Packers have to win their game next week. IF NY Giants win Saturday night, they need a win next week AND must overtake the NY Giants in the strength of victory tiebreaker (as mentioned above). IF NY Giants lose Saturday, they need a win AND a St. Louis loss. St. Louis needs a win and some help also. They can only get the #6 as they also cannot catch Philly. Obviously, the Rams have to win to have a chance. They also MUST get a NY Giants loss AND a Carolina loss AND an Atlanta loss. They DON'T need Packers to lose. Carolina also needs help, but not as much as St. Louis. They can only get the #6 seed. Obviously, the Panthers have to win their game. They need a win AND a NY Giants loss AND a Green Bay loss to get in. Atlanta needs even more help. Obviously, they have to win to have a chance. Atlanta DOES NOT need help from St. Louis, that's the good news. The bad is that they need a win AND a Carolina loss AND a Green Bay loss AND a NY Giants loss to get in. Additionally, if Atlanta makes it in based on that formula, they can still get the #5 if Philly loses both of their last two. Philly losses don't keep them from being eliminated though if any of those other teams win. AFC: San Diego has clinched at least the #2 and a first-round bye. They need a win OR a Baltimore loss to clinch the #1 and HFA. The only way they don't get HFA is if they lose (unlikely) and Baltimore wins. Baltimore has clinched at least the #3. They still have a shot at the #1 and HFA w/ a win AND a SD loss. More likely though, they control their own destiny for the #2 and a first-round bye. They get it w/ a win OR a Colts loss. The only way the Ravens lose the bye is if they lose and we win next week. Colts have clinched at least the #4 seed. We wind up #4 if we lose AND New England wins next week. So even if we lose, if NE also loses then we get the #3. We clinch the #3 w/ a win, but still have a shot at the bye. We get the #2 and a first-round bye w/ a win AND a Baltimore loss. New England has clinched at least the #4. The only way they can move up is to the #3 w/ a win AND a Colt's loss. The following teams have NOT clinched a playoff berth yet: Denver controls its own destiny. If they win, they are in (highly likely they will). Even if they lose, they still have a good shot at 9-7 but need either KC to lose to Jax OR one NYJ loss (tomorrow night to Miami is realistically only chance) and they get the #6. Would even still get the #5 if BOTH of those things happen. The only way the Broncos miss the playoffs is if they lose AND KC beats Jax and the NY Jets win both of their last two. NY Jets also control their own destiny. If they win BOTH of their last two, they are in w/ at least the #6 seed (could also still get the #5 if Denver loses next week). If they lose both games, they are out. If they split and go 9-7 (say a loss tomorrow night to Miami and then a win over lowly OAK next week) then they have a chance but need help. They would need 2 of the following 3 things to happen to make it (if all 3 happened they would get the #5): a Cincy loss, {a Denver loss AND a KC win}, {a Tennessee win OR Jax loss}. So if Denver wins (as is likely) the Jets would need a Cincy loss and either a Jax loss or a Tenn win to get in at 9-7. Cincinnati is in the best shape of the teams that DON'T control their own destiny. Obviously, they need a win. As for help, they need EITHER for the NY Jets to lose a game (only real chance tomorrow night) OR {Denver loss AND KC win}. So if Denver wins as they should or KC loses, basically Cincy's hopes come down to a loss tomorrow night by the Jets. Tennessee does not need help from Jax at least. Obviously, they have to win. They also need 2 of the following 3 things to happen (if all 3 happen they get the #5): a Cincy loss, NY Jets lose BOTH of their games, {a Denver loss AND a KC win}. Really a longshot, because their only hope rests on either Denver losing at home to San Fran or the Jets losing at home to the Raiders. Not likely, but there's still hope at least. Jacksonville can only get the #6 seed. They obviously must beat KC next week, plus ALL of the following. They need a win AND a Tennessee loss, AND Cincy loss, AND one NY Jets loss (only real chance is tomorrow night). If the Jets win tomorrow night, they need a lot of help including an Oakland win. Yuck. Kansas City must obviously beat Jax next week to have a chance. They also need 3 of the following 4 things to happen: a Denver loss, a Tennesee loss, a Cincy loss, NYJ lose BOTH of their last two games. So if Denver wins as expected and the Jets can beat Oakland as expected, KC can't do anything about their fate either. But, at least they are alive for now. So enjoy reading about all the crazy scenarios your around .500 team needs to make the playoffs :D.

I would guess they're waiting for the results of tonight's games so that they get a game between two teams vying for their playoff lives. The most likely candidates to get moved to Sunday night are probably Atlanta-Philly, Jacksonville-Kansas City (less likely due to less interest in these teams) or New England-Tennessee if Miami loses tonight. If Miami wins tonight, a lot of the drama comes out of the AFC because there's no way Oakland beats the Jets next week, and Denver should beat the Niners also. So, my money's on Philly-Atlanta. I think they have to announce the game today though. It was a mininum of 6 days in advance for week 17, and Tuesday would be too late for that-I would expect to hear it this afternoon.

To answer you, I wouldn't be surprised at all, but I don't expect it either. The most likely opponents for them right now if they remain the 3 seed (they could still get the 2 seed if they win and Baltimore loses, and could get the 4 seed if they lose and New England wins) are the Jets and the Bengals I believe, who the Colts have beaten both of them already. They definitely could lose to either of those teams, but I see them getting to at least the divisional round, if that come from the bye or from winning the wildcard game.

It's beginning to heat up as Hawaii scored three times in the third, hopefully it keeps building from there. By the way, I really enjoy watching Hawaii's offense, it seems to run so smoothly. And I think Arizona State may be worse than even I thought, they've looked really bad tonight. I don't know about that-Arizona State has played about as well as Purdue did, and that's somewhat close to their level this year (and Purdue was probably better during the season). I'm not sure what you actually thought they were, but they were a so-so team all season, and they have been a so-so team so far tonight.

Actually, I mean Hendry probably believes what he said, but I think Melvin is alot smarter. Put it this way, thats an easy way to please the average fan. Just a second-you called this quote of Melvin's "dumb" a few weeks ago: So why would you think he was telling the truth in that quote, but not telling the truth in his quotes about Suppan? I don't see why he would lie about one and tell the truth on another, which makes me think that he really does believe the sorts of things that he has been saying all offseason.

I'm very disappointed in this ASU-Hawaii game so far. I don't want this out of every game I watch, but one bowl game a year I just want to know that it's going to be all offense and just watch the fireworks. I was thinking this was going to be the game, and they have a long way to go from the 3-3 score with 5 minutes gone in the second quarter. This game will almost certainly heat up from here, but it's still going to be a long way to get into the high 30's-40's I was hoping for-oh well.

That's true-if the Titans beat New England next week, the Jaguars are automatically eliminated. The Jags are 5-6 in the AFC, they are just about out of it. If it makes you feel any better, I think the Titans have lost 7. No-they are also 5-6. The AFC playoff possibilites really get larger if Denver wins today. If Denver loses and KC wins next week, KC eliminates Denver first becasue of a division tiebreaker, but then KC is eliminated because of their terrible conference record. That would open it up to Cincy first because of their good conference record, and then the Titans. The Jets are the x-factor in all of this. They most likely need to lose at least one game for a team like the Titans to get in, although it's theoretically possible for the Titans to get in without that help (although without Jets help, it would require Denver win over Cincy, Denver loss to SF, KC win next week, Cincy loss next week, and a Titans win next week-which is very, very unlikely.) So if Denver and the Jets lose and the Chiefs win, Titans are in? After the Cincy-Denver game is over, I am going to try to look over some possibilities-that game changes too much right now though to make projections right now easy to explain. I'll post what I find out tonight.

That's true-if the Titans beat New England next week, the Jaguars are automatically eliminated. The Jags are 5-6 in the AFC, they are just about out of it. If it makes you feel any better, I think the Titans have lost 7. No-they are also 5-6. The AFC playoff possibilites really get larger if Denver wins today. If Denver loses and KC wins next week, KC eliminates Denver first becasue of a division tiebreaker, but then KC is eliminated because of their terrible conference record. That would open it up to Cincy first because of their good conference record, and then the Titans. The Jets are the x-factor in all of this. They most likely need to lose at least one game for a team like the Titans to get in, although it's theoretically possible for the Titans to get in without that help (although without Jets help, it would require Denver win over Cincy, Denver loss to SF, KC win next week, Cincy loss next week, and a Titans win next week-which is very, very unlikely.)

That's true-if the Titans beat New England next week, the Jaguars are automatically eliminated. Not if my friend, when. With this team, anything is possible. Sure-anything is possible, that's why I used if. Nothing is guaranteed, that's why I didn't use when :D. You just don't want to admit your fear of Vince and the Titans. :P Well, I told my wife in disgust during the Titans game that I couldn't believe the Colts would have to play him twice a year for the next 15 years-if you want more fear then that, I can't give it to you. :D I'm definitely rooting for Denver in this game now-if Denver wins, both spots are still up for grabs next week. If Cincy wins, they get one of the wildcard spots automatically.

That's true-if the Titans beat New England next week, the Jaguars are automatically eliminated. Not if my friend, when. With this team, anything is possible. Sure-anything is possible, that's why I used if. Nothing is guaranteed, that's why I didn't use when :D.

That's true-if the Titans beat New England next week, the Jaguars are automatically eliminated.

The Bills decide to go for it on 4th and 5 with less than a minute left rather than go for the game-winning 45 yard field goal, and Losman throws a despeartion INT-I have no idea why they did that, but now the Titans are 8-7 and still breathing.

I guess Marvin Harrison has decided that he wanted to get back near the league leaders in receivers TD's-that's 5 TD's for him now in the last 2 games. Unfortunately, Ron Dayne is the latest random back to go off on the Colts defense, and the game is tied at 24 with 2:30 left and Houston ball-simply ridiculous.

:shock: Poor reads, poor first step, terrible lateral acceleration, no vertical leap... I think it'd be one of the worst defensive shortstop contributions we've seen in quite a long time. :lol: I think it would be a very fun experiment. You have the choice of a butcher defensively or an automatic out in the line up. Which one hurts the team more? I think it depends on what position that person plays and the team around them. At many positions, a bad defensive player can be compensated for by people with great range around them. At the same time, one automatic out in the lineup does not hurt all that much, as long as they are not surrounded by too many other poor people (or worse, spread throughout the lineup intermittently). In most cases, an automatic out hurts the team more, although the question becomes much more murky when talking about one of the bigger defensive positions, especially SS, and CF if the corner outfielders are also bad defenders.

I doubt they will-that would mean Michigan is basically the exact same team as last year with the exact same results, and they didn't get in then.

How many home games are there this year for bowl teams? This one for New Mexico, Hawaii, LSU (basically a home game an hour away)-I guess you could maybe count USC as well-anyone else?

Sheets is just like Mary, when he's healthy, I think he's a number 1. That particular post confused me as well-I think he meant though that those 4 are not bad for being 4/5ths of a teams starting rotation, not that each of them are 4 or 5 starter quality.

Usually the scheduling is based off of what teams are the most marketable. That's why the Patriots have always played in the Saturday night game the last 5 years (which of course gives them the biggest HFA then also, being the latest time for the game and therefore the coldest). I thought it might also be based off of which WC teams get in, but last year the Colts game was already scheduled before Pittsburgh advanced. I have not found yet which games are scheduled for which time (does the NFC get the Saturday afternoon or Saturday night slot, for example?)-so I can't tell you for sure which one it will be. I'm fairly sure that they won't give the Bears the Saturday night slot-if it goes to the NFC, the network may jump for whoever else gets the bye (Saints or Cowboys) especially if they end up playing the other one-it's simply too big of a media story. Oh-one other thing. The Chargers are one of the bye teams-they won't have the Sunday 1:00 game as it would be 10:00 there, that's pretty much for sure. So that only leaves them for the remaining 3 spots (Saturday 4:30, Saturday 8:00, Sunday 4:30). I hope that helps at all-I'm guessing that it will be announced in the week between week 17 and WC weekend.

OK, you can come back from la-la land any time now. :D If we faced the first stringers, we would have NO chance at all. I think the first game of the season indicated that. I think we definitely have improved since then, but we'd probably still lose by 2 TD's. But if the Bears are smart, they would more than likely rest most of their starters by the 2nd quarter and all of their starters by the start of the 2nd half. I don't think it's THAT much of a stretch :wink: Nah-you don't have a chance, because Brian Griese could lead a team of schoochildren and beat anybody-he's that good :D

I guess GB is committed to throwing the ball tonight-I know why considering the Minnesota run defense, but Favre is going to have a sore arm tomorrow. He has attempted 33 passes in the first half, and at least 2 more have been knocked out by defensive penalties (in addition, Holiday has attempted 1 pass). Dave Rayner is 2-4 in field goals at the half, and GB leads Minnesota 6-0 as a result.

I'm very against Murton having to share time with Floyd, and I'm not a big Jones fan, but how can you say that the projected 07 outfield would be worse than 06 and especially 05? 05 was probably the peak of crappiness followed closely by 06, but Murton, Jones, Soriano wouldnt be a bad outfield. That's what I was thinking when I saw that 5 year outfield. The big bats of Sosa and Alou weren't replaced immediately, and so the outfield declined all the way till 2005. 2006 was a much better outfield (because 2005's outfield was so miserable rather than the great quality of 2006), and 2007 should be again a better outfield than 2006.

I think Hendry's contract is actually through the end of 2008-it's simply speculated that the team has to make a large improvement (likely contention, if not playoffs) for him to stay on through the length of his contract.