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I've never gotten the celebration thing. If it was on their court showing them up in front of their fans, that's one thing. But the Pacers didn't celebrate wildly on the court. Apparently it was because they were celebrating too much in the tunnel and in the locker room. It looks like the Bulls haven't forgotten it though. It will probably be a little more intense than most regular season games tonight.

You probably won't have to worry about Philly come playoff time. They're now 4-11 in games decided by single digits. Some of that is fluky, but probably not all of it. It would be a tough, annoying series for the Bulls that would probably go 5 or 6 games, but Philly is not going to blow out the Bulls more than once, maybe twice and so they'd have to find a way to win close games to have any chance in the series. I think the Bulls will beat the Pacers tomorrow, but it will be interesting to see how they match up now that Deng's back. Of course, in the first game Brewer played really well in his absence (which based on this thread seems to be a little bit of a rarity).

I thought Purdue played pretty well. Missed some shots early but did a good job battling after that. IU other then a few bad moments though played really well for the 3rd game in a row. I've been noticing more and more that this is one of the better passing IU teams I can remember. For a while there, they were back into layup/dunk or open 3 pointer every possession like they have been a few times this season. And I'm really glad to say goodbye to Hummel. He didn't take over the game tonight, but he was still really good and hit some tough shots. The comparison has been a few times before, but this year's version of Indiana is really similar to the 2002 one. Even the players match up fairly well. Both teams could beat anybody in the country, but could easily flame out and lose their first game as well. 2002 of course got some breaks and made it to the title game. Hopefully this year's can do the same. I'd really like if Indiana can avoid a West pod and can stay close to home for the first two rounds, but to do so they'll probably have to beat Penn State and then Wisconsin. Otherwise they'll be that unfortunate 4 seed who has to go out west because there aren't enough teams out there who are any good.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it's only for this year. In 2013, they're revert back to the 2-2-1 format. I don't understand why it's necessary this year, but not going forward. I think it was a scheduling thing, which is why they weren't sure they were going to add the extra WC this year if I remember right. It is a scheduling thing. When they made the schedule for this year, they locked in the dates for the ALCS/NLCS with the TV networks. They had to stick to those dates. So to jam the wildcard games in, they had to cut out one of the travel days from the divisional round. When the schedule for next year is made, they'll be able to just move those dates back to leave enough room for both the wildcard games and a 2/2/1 format during the divisional round.

This hurts Northwestern A LOT Why? Any team ahead of Northwestern in at-large discussions that loses won't hurt Northwestern. Seton Hall is Northwestern's 2nd best win of the season. It could help Northwestern possibly jump Seton Hall if Seton Hall struggles more next week, but it also hurts Northwestern's overall profile.

Why would Boston do that? Rip is on a one-year deal, so they'd be free of that cap space next year? Rip has another guaranteed year next year with a team option for the year after that. Allen's deal expires after this year. And no, their salaries don't match. The Bulls would have to add more salary to the deal.

Bobcats pick. I would do it. It's tough to give that pick up for a short term upgrade but Ray Allen is a player that can make a legit difference against the Heat. The problem for the Bulls is matching salaries. This is especially true because they could very well go over the luxury tax with a trade like this which would make it harder to match. I'm not sure what combination Boston would accept, the Bulls would give up, and would fit salary wise. There are combinations that work (such as two of Korver, Brewer, and Watson) but would either side accept that sort of deal? The Pacers are a great match for Allen or maybe even Rondo (cheap young players the Celtics could use, and the ability to save the Celtics luxury tax money by being able to absorb a bunch of salary). But they seem to be big on team chemistry right now, and I'm guessing they won't look to pull off a deal of that magnitude.

I blame Ron Artest. He was pissed because of what Ben Wallace did, he just wasn't crazy enough to attack Wallce. Instead he found a small, white guy 150 feet away. Wait what did Ben Wallace do? Artest decided to give Ben a cheap shot during garbage time of a game, and then before anything could really happen Ben was held back and Artest retreated to the scorers table. If you read the Grantland piece that begain this discussion, the only thing Wallace did was throw his arm band in frustration towards Artest because he wasn't able to get to him. I'm not saying Wallace was an angel here, if he wasn't held back he people would have beat down Artest, but what Artest did had nothing to do with Ben Wallace...he was already seperated and laying on the scorer's table because he knew he would snap if he didnt walk away. Then one the cup from the stands hit him, he snapped and took it out on the fans. The scariest thing about the incident were the multiple reports that once Artest calmed down he acted a) like he didn't really remember what had just happened and b) was rather shocked when he was told he would probably be in a ton of trouble because of what happened. There was a Pacers PBP man that he trampled over to get into the stands and broke 5 of his ribs among other things. After everything happened and Ron calmed down, he asked the guy what happened to his face (which was bloodied) and he was like "Ron, you trampled me" and Ron clearly had no idea that he did it. He later asked him the same question hours later on the plane as if he forgot again. Just scary stuff...I wouldnt want to get on his bad side. After Artest fouled Wallace, Wallace turned around and gave Artest a hard shove. Artest went backwards and the ref got in front of Artest. Wallace then followed him to the scorers table. The two teams started shoving there which is when Artest got up on the scorers table. Wallace got suspended for 6 games for his role. Yeah, Artest almost certainly has some sort of personality disorder. As the PBP man who he trampled said, he's normally a sweet guy. But he's had so many moments where he goes off the deep end. He's unpredictable because you never know when that other part of his personality is going to emerge. And that's really scary.

As Exile said, leaving the fans in the arena who were known to cause problems and not securing the court were the biggest problems. Both of those should have been standard operating procedure. I didn't expect them to be ready for what to do if a player goes into the crowd, but I at least expected some to be somewhere around the area. I do agree with you that the referees didn't do their job either. Two of them just sat back and let that fight unfold for way too long. If they had separated the players, they could have sent Wallace and Artest back to the locker room and defused the situation. I didn't include them (other than my initial post) just because I don't expect the NBA to come out and say that they messed up in that situation.

That's undeniably true. The incident doesn't occur if the Pacers didn't have insane players on their team. The Pacers deserved their punishment (honestly, I always thought Jackson should have been suspended for the year, too, but I have a very low opinion of him in general.) But the escalation should never occur -- security exists to prevent that. Similarly, law enforcement exists to prevent crimes; and, if the first crime can't be prevented, catch the criminal before the second crime can be committed. I always thought Jackson should have gotten at least the same punishment and maybe even more than Artest. Artest was at least provoked and didn't go in throwing punches (I'm not sure if Artest even threw one). Jackson charged into the stands and almost immediately threw a punch. I understand somewhat his defense of Artest, but it certainly seemed like he was looking for a fight. Of course, that's partly because he managed to get himself in the fight on the floor to begin with even though he wasn't involved in that either.

I'm not sure how? What would you have done differently? The Pistons could have removed the fan that threw the beer before this happened. They knew he was likely to start trouble. They could have had security nearby the area. This wasn't a quick happening thing. Artest was on the scoring table for 90 seconds or so, and the beer that hit him wasn't the first one that was thrown. And Ben Wallace's brother was working his way towards Artest and was looking for a fight himself, so even if Artest hadn't jumped into the stands something might have happened anyway. If security had gotten between Artest and the fan immediately, it would have been over. Artest didn't go in swinging. He was trying to find the fan who threw the beer. And Jackson was trying to fight with Artest to keep the fans from killing him so he would have stopped as soon as Artest was safe. No fans should have been able to get on the floor. Fans did, and yet there was nobody making any effort to stop them. Security should have been up in the stands by the fans in the tunnel to try to slow down the amount of chairs and bottles and other things that were thrown at the players and coaches trying to leave the floor. This was a rivalry game that had clearly turned heated. The crowd had already gotten ugly before this point, but there was nobody there to deter them. The whole point of arena security is to keep the crowd from ever turning into a mob mentality. And the Detroit crowd was in a mob mentality by the end of that night. Could security have stopped Artest/Jackson from going in the stands? No. But they could have minimized the damage from it. Instead, the crowd was just let to run rampant. Nothing over the PA, no security/police officers, nothing. BTW, the next time the Pacers were in Detroit, the game was delayed for 90 minutes or so because there were reports that somebody placed a bomb in the Pacers locker room. Thankfully by then Detroit had learned their lesson and security was much tighter than it had been the night of the brawl. The fan that trhew the beer wasn't the one that was attacked. It was some other guy a few seats behind the guilty party. Fans got to the court because the security was busy trying to get two idiots out of the stands. There are tons of rivalry games where this type of thing could happen, but doesn't. It doesn't because most teams only have one insane person on a roster. The Pacers tempted fate by collecting a group of them. Yes, but if security had removed that fan, he never throws that beer. If this was his first offense it's unavoidable, but it wasn't. And yup, Artest went and pushed down the wrong person and asked him if he was the guilty one before letting go when he was attacked from behind. There was no security around. And fans were spilling onto the court after Artest/Jackson got out of the stands (which was relatively quickly). There were three police officers in the entire arena that night. There should have been 10x as many security people in the building that night (I see dozens at a normal NBA game). So instead all they had were old ushers who were trying to step in and help, and obviously they weren't going to be able to do anything. Yes the Pacers tempted fate, which is why they deserved the long suspensions. But Detroit tempted fate as well by not having any procedures in place. They let the crowd get way out of control. If Artest and Jackson go into the stands at most arenas, it's over within 30 seconds. In this situation, it was allowed to become a free-for-all. The rest of the Pacers and coaches (the ones who weren't in the fight) could have gotten seriously hurt.

I'm not sure how? What would you have done differently? The Pistons could have removed the fan that threw the beer before this happened. They knew he was likely to start trouble. They could have had security nearby the area. This wasn't a quick happening thing. Artest was on the scoring table for 90 seconds or so, and the beer that hit him wasn't the first one that was thrown. And Ben Wallace's brother was working his way towards Artest and was looking for a fight himself, so even if Artest hadn't jumped into the stands something might have happened anyway. If security had gotten between Artest and the fan immediately, it would have been over. Artest didn't go in swinging. He was trying to find the fan who threw the beer. And Jackson was trying to fight with Artest to keep the fans from killing him so he would have stopped as soon as Artest was safe. No fans should have been able to get on the floor. Fans did, and yet there was nobody making any effort to stop them. Security should have been up in the stands by the fans in the tunnel to try to slow down the amount of chairs and bottles and other things that were thrown at the players and coaches trying to leave the floor. This was a rivalry game that had clearly turned heated. The crowd had already gotten ugly before this point, but there was nobody there to deter them. The whole point of arena security is to keep the crowd from ever turning into a mob mentality. And the Detroit crowd was in a mob mentality by the end of that night. Could security have stopped Artest/Jackson from going in the stands? No. But they could have minimized the damage from it. Instead, the crowd was just let to run rampant. Nothing over the PA, no security/police officers, nothing. BTW, the next time the Pacers were in Detroit, the game was delayed for 90 minutes or so because there were reports that somebody placed a bomb in the Pacers locker room. Thankfully by then Detroit had learned their lesson and security was much tighter than it had been the night of the brawl.

the fact that they were the ones that inititated the brawl with the fans? you can blame whoever you want for what led up to it, but the bottom line is that artest was the one who went into the stands and started it and if artest and jackson don't go into the stands to begin with, it never happens at all. the pacers had some scumbags on their team that lost it and went berserk. thats the pacers fault. I agree with both of those points, and Artest and Jackson should have both had lengthy suspensions for that. But they weren't the only ones at fault, nor did they do anything that hadn't been done before. But it was treated that way. I have/had no problem with the Pacers suspensions; their actions were indefensible. And, at least for Artest and Jackson (if not O'Neal), their personalities/character indicated that such an incident was not necessarily a one-time deal. It was Maxwell's suspension that should be viewed as an anamoly and too light; not vice versa. If you enter the stands and fight fans, the punishment should be severe. However, what was not fair, is how light the Pistons were treated. Not necessarily the players, but the franchise. They should have been forced to play some games without fans a la soccer matches, or something. The reason security exists is to prevent idiots like Artest and Jackson from going into the stands and idiots like Turtle-as-Piston-fan coming onto the court. They completely failed and that failure led to one of the darkest moments in NBA history. Yeah, now that I think about it more, that's what gets to the heart of it for me. I am perfectly fine with severe suspensions for fighting fans especially in the stands. That's close to the worst thing you can do in the sports world. I think O'Neal's suspension was a little heavy because the fan came onto the players' turf in an already crazy situation. Other than that, whatever message the NBA wants to send about going into the stands is fine with me. Just be consistent about it. But the fact that the Pistons got off so lightly comparatively makes no sense. They have a responsibility to protect the fans and the visiting team, and they spectacularly failed. The brawl couldn't have happened at many arenas because most teams are more responsible than that.

the fact that they were the ones that inititated the brawl with the fans? you can blame whoever you want for what led up to it, but the bottom line is that artest was the one who went into the stands and started it and if artest and jackson don't go into the stands to begin with, it never happens at all. the pacers had some scumbags on their team that lost it and went berserk. thats the pacers fault. I agree with both of those points, and Artest and Jackson should have both had lengthy suspensions for that. But they weren't the only ones at fault, nor did they do anything that hadn't been done before. But it was treated that way.

Look at the two situations: Maxwell goes into the stands to go after a heckler (who as far as I know, wasn't in trouble with the arena) and punches him. The NBA suspends him 10 games. The Pistons let a guy in who they know is trouble. They talk to him at halftime but let him stay. He throws a beer on Artest who charges into the stands. Jackson follows him and throws a punch. O'Neal stays on the court and throws a punch at a fan who comes on to the court. The NBA suspends Artest for the whole season, Jackson for 30, O'Neal for 25. What was so much worse about what the Pacers did that justified the much longer suspensions? The brawl got so much worse because it was allowed to keep going on. Fans were allowed on the court, a fan ripped a chair out and threw it at the players, the players and coaches had trouble getting through the tunnel. If Artest and Jackson go into the stands and its broken up by security, they get 10-20 game suspensions and nobody remembers the brawl today.

Great article. What a horrible weekend for Pacers fans. They were one of the favorites to win the title to give Reggie his first ring. Then the brawl happens and after the game all the news coverage focused on how badly it was handled by Detroit. By morning, it was all on Artest but people still thought the suspension would be between 10-30 games (there was precedent for NBA players going into the stands in Vernon Maxwell). When the suspensions came out everyone was stunned, even the analysts who thought that the Pacers should be severely punished. The thing that annoys Pacers fans to this day is that everybody failed that night. Detroit security was terrible. The referees didn't do their job. The fans were awful. If any of those do their job, this either doesn't happen or at least doesn't become nearly as bad. But when the penalties came down, Detroit got off basically scot free while the Pacers were destroyed. I mean, O'Neal got 25 games initially for fighting a fan who chose to come on the court for the purpose of trying to fight the Pacers! The Pacers actions were deplorable that night, but the penalties became a complete PR decision by the league to try to preserve their image as best they could instead of having anything to do with fairness. With all that said though, I'm glad that Pacers team is gone. The players on that team with the actions of the brawl and the years after might have permanently damaged NBA basketball in Indiana. And for those who were here and experienced how Pacers crazy this town used to be, that's a shame.

See, I told you guys we would win. =D> Lunardi says IU is now locked in as at least a 4 seed for the NCAA tourney and could push their way into a 3 seed. \:D/ I'm a little surprised. I figured that if they lost to Purdue and either Nebraska/Penn State that they'd probably slip to a 5. I think to have a good shot at a 3 they'd have to beat Purdue and make it to Saturday of the BTT. That would give them a good opportunity to steal a 3 seed from whichever team slips right above them. It looks like the only way for them to get a bye in the BTT now is taking it away from Ohio State if they lose their last two games, which isn't all that likely. Otherwise it would be 5th seed if they beat Purdue and 6th seed if they don't.

This would be the 7th straight game that Indiana has outshot their opponents from the FT line, and 3 of those were road games. Basically ever since Jones went out with his injury and Oladipo was given the ball in his hands much more the free throws have been consistently high.

Big difference in the first half was Oladipo getting to the basket early and drawing those fouls. Both teams committed some non-shooting fouls late in the half, but since Oladipo did that Indiana was already in the bonus when those fouls were committed while Michigan State was not. So there is only a 4 foul difference (Michigan State 10, Indiana 6) but a 13 free throw difference because other than the loose ball foul on Green's 3, Indiana has shot free throws on every single Michigan State foul so far.

It's funny how irrational fans can get about past success/failure at a place. I was dreading the Minnesota game because IU has played so horribly there even when they had better teams than Minnesota almost every year. And I am irrationally a little more confident than I should be about this game because IU played so well against Michigan State at home in both the Mike Davis/Kelvin Sampson years despite regularly being the underdog.

That's fine. I think for once we're going to get the Colts pick right!

:roll: who won a national title and was national player of the year again? IU homer much? You misunderstand me. I was talking about their pro potential. Zeller has almost no chance to be close to as good as Hansborough was in college. But Hansborough is an unorthodox player who is having to unlearn parts of his game in order to get better in the NBA. It's kind of like Tebow, but Hansborough doesn't have the problem of playing the most important position in the sport like Tebow does. Zeller is a much more traditional type of player who has higher upside than Hansborough, but could struggle to make any kind of dent in the NBA if he does not develop properly. BTW, I think Leonard has more potential than either one.

Zeller is a four year Hansborough type. There's not much more to max out. He's going nowhere. Haha, you're joking.... Right? I can see him staying, but he doesn't have to. Indiana fans would be shocked if Zeller left. His family places such a strong emphasis on education. It's seen as he has almost no chance to leave after this year, a small but plausible chance after year two, a pretty good chance after year 3, and it wouldn't be shocking if he stays all 4. But having watched both of them this year, he's nothing like Hansborough. Hansborough uses his toughness and his unorthodox style to draw fouls along with a decent 15 foot jumper. But Hansborough has no idea how to pass the ball or play defense. Zeller's a much more skilled big man who needs to get stronger and develop a jump shot, but already has a much better basketball sense than Hansborough will ever have.

The pitching won't be worse because the guys we were throwing out there last year were #6, #7, & #8 quality starters. Maholm, Wood, Volstad, Wells, and Samardzija are at least #5 starters on most teams and maybe #4, but we are putting them at #3-#5. What sort of numbers would you expect out of a #3 starter? Edit: I somewhat agree with you, but only in the current depressed offensive environment, and one of them will likely be good enough to be a #3 (but it's impossible to tell which one right now). Of course that same bad offensive environment will help the Cubs lineup to not be as horrific as it would have been in the middle of the decade.

Pointless, most college kickers can't get touchbacks from the 35 anyway. The biggest change for safety is that now the kicking team can only have a 5 yard running start. The move to the 35 just helps the kicking team compensate for that change. They're also requiring players who lose their helmet to come out of the game for 1 play.