badnews

It does not take a good pitcher to make Soriano swing at bad pitches. He's a free swinging hacker. Derrek Lee's strike zone discipline has been a lot worse since the ASB. He's not making good decisions. He's taking more clear strikes than before. I'm not saying he's veering into Ben Grieve territory, but it's not the best I've seen Lee. Aramis will chase pitches. If we were talking about hitters with great discipline who walk a lot and don't chase anything, I'd be more given to agree. But saying that Soriano chasing garbage is proof Webb was good is a flawed theory. Same with Lee as of late. Aramis is a little different story.

It's accepted in the U.S. This is pedantic.

Pitchers usually say they didn't have their best stuff when they go out there and get roughed up a little. He was being professional. I don't think it proves anything. No, "judgement" is an accepted spelling of the word. We can have differing opinions about "stuff" but why don't you check your facts before you correct me. Webb didn't have his best stuff. On other message boards people have agreed with that statement, and there's another topic on this board where someone dared expressed this sentiment before they saw they would be trampled by the herd. Webb was pitching up in the zone. I'll buy his change and curve were "on" way before I'll buy his sinker was nasty.

Webb didn't rub it in the Cubs' faces that he didn't have his best stuff, so obviously you're right. How much sense does that make? What else is he going to say? I'm sorry you didn't pick up on the clearly satirical tone of my statement that this board seems content to just accept when the Cubs do badly it's the pitching. Good pitchers can succeed with poor stuff against undisciplined teams without being great. I guess you can't accept that so I'll leave you to your "LOLs" and "ROFTHFLFSJFLMAJAJOs" and such.

I can tell people are BSing because they keep talking up his sinker when his sinker wasn't even what the thorn in the Cubs' side. Everyone who said "His sinker was nasty" or "his sinker was full of movement" or "his sinker was falling off the table" is bluffing that they actually know or just making excuses for the team. Webb was up much more often than he was, and it wasn't the movement, it was our hitters. Go back and watch the game, and tell me about how filthy Webb was with all of those dead straight changeups taken right down the middle of the plate. I'm simply not buying up to this defeatist attitude that we're helpless against good pitching or the idea that we looked bad because Webb was good. I'm sure Webb is going to say in the post-game "I didn't have best stuff, so I was surprised when they showed no strike zone judgement." He was being professional.

Nonsense. He was filthy. I'm reasonably optimistic about doing better against him in Game 5 because the Cubs looked much better as the game went on. But he was really good. Filthy? Give me a break. I can't wait until that one gets rolled out again for Livan Hernandez. "Big L was flat out NASTY." I don't believe you actually watched the game. I think you must have seen the 9 strikeouts and said "Wow, I guess he was good." He wasn't. I can't believe you actually watched the game. He made some of our best hitters -- Ramirez, Lee, and Soriano -- look downright silly. How often do Ramirez and Lee strike out on pitches in the dirt? Just about never. They did last night. To be sure, he struggled with command at various points last night, particularly in the 6th inning. But that's hardly unusual for pitchers with so much movement on their hard stuff or for Webb generally. There's a reason Aramis doesn't walk much, and Soriano has always had pitch selection problems. Derrek Lee's strike zone judgement has not been great since the ASB. He's taking too many good pitches and swinging at too many bad ones. Webb's stuff was not "falling off the table." He wasn't even pitching down in the zone as much as he usually does. His sinker wasn't sinking as well as it usually does. It's comments like this that have me thinking people are out to make excuses for our hitters at any cost. I can't wait to hear about "Electric" Doug Davis and "Nasty" Livan Hernandez. I've seen Webb when he's been good, he wasn't that good.

I really hope you're kidding. This guy is far from a scrub pitcher and to just throw a blanket statement like that out there makes no sense to me. Webb is one of the best pitchers in the NL if not baseball this year, wow, just wow. You're assuming that just because he's good, he doesn't have off nights where the Cubs fail to take advantage? Wow, just wow. I actually watch the games. I've seen Webb when he's on, and he wasn't on.

No, it was the hitters, not the pitcher. They were just doing poorly. Webb's stuff was not good. When they're taking no-movement change-ups right down the heart of the plate I don't think it's because Webb was just that damn good. This is ridiculous. Everyone's in such a big hurry to make excuses that our guys didn't get the job done we'll just make up any story. "Well, we looked crappy out there, so Webb must've been great! Just because we're a playoff team we can't be expected to hit good pitching. After all the Diamondbacks are a worse offensive team than us, and they couldn't Zambrano or Marmol right?" Oh wait. I've seen scrub pitchers make the whole team look like grade schoolers before.

Excellent, if we lose the series we can all pat each other on the back about how hard the Cubs hit the ball right at someone. I'm not sure where anyone dug up the idea you can't bunt a sinker.

Nonsense. He was filthy. I'm reasonably optimistic about doing better against him in Game 5 because the Cubs looked much better as the game went on. But he was really good. Filthy? Give me a break. I can't wait until that one gets rolled out again for Livan Hernandez. "Big L was flat out NASTY." I don't believe you actually watched the game. I think you must have seen the 9 strikeouts and said "Wow, I guess he was good." He wasn't.

I give him little credit. He didn't look like he had his best stuff at all. The problem is the Cubs' idea of plate discipline to is to take a 76 mph pitch right down the middle, then go "Oh crap" and follow it up by swinging at an 81 mph pitch 2 feet off the outside corner.

He had some hittable pitches but I thought he did a very nice job. It's amazing how good a pitcher looks when the hitters swing at garbage and take meatballs right down the middle of the plate. If yesterday is any indication today we're going to be kissing Doug Davis's ass talking about what a masterful pitcher he is.

Please, none of this "Tip your cap to Webb" stuff. He didn't look like he had best stuff tonight by any stretch and the Cubs could've done a lot more damage than they did. Furthermore, I think saving your ace pitcher for a game you may never play is preposterous. Lastly, in a 1-1 game where runs are at a scarcity, it doesn't behoove you to get into your bullpen too soon.

I don't understand the fascination with Fukudome. Most of his numbers are worse than Iwamura's, and Iwamura's production out of a right fielder is poor. Add in to that due to this build-up he seems in line to get a rather risky and pricey contract, I have to agree with Nancy Reagan, just say no.

I thought there was a lot of talk he was going to Hawaii to try his hand at pitching. This is kind of a disappointment, I've seen enough of him as a hitter. Warner Madrigal of the Angels is the last outfielder converted to a pitcher I can recall off the top of my head, his numbers as an outfielder were going nowhere, but with Cedar Rapids he's got 20 saves and a 2.07 ERA with 75 strikeouts in 61 innings with a positive G/F ratio. No matter the level it's still more promise than he ever showed as an outfielder. I was kind of hoping the same for Harvey, there were a number of posts on here that made it sound like it was for certain. Too bad.

You're right, his name sounds familiar.

Does anyone remember who that was? I remember he didn't have to go through the posting system. Already before the season is over people are bellyaching to throw away a ton of money and our #19 draft pick on an up-and-down reliever, I'm trying to figure out why we don't look elsewhere or even stand pat.

Is Harvey pitching in Hawaii or not?

No offense or anything, but where's the logic here? Last time Zambrano pitched on 3 days rest he got his ass handed to him. He's been iffy all year, and now I'm supposed to believe because he pitched well against the AAA Reds and the Pirates that's he back to being awesome? No way. No one on here can convince me Z on 3 days rest is better than Marshall. No one has made a decent argument against Marshall at all. Jason Marquis has an ERA of like 5.50 after May. That's worthless. A 5.50 ERA after May? And what's the argument against Marshall? "He had a bad month and then he didn't pitch well." So what? Marquis has nothing but bad months. How many bad months did Zambrano have? Why is it Marshall's not good enough, but everyone believes Kevin Hart is some kind of awesome reliever based on 11 innings? It doesn't make sense.

The good of Rich Hill: His Opponent OPS puts him near some elite pitchers. He's within 15 points of Brad Penny, C. C. Sabathia, Cole Hamels, John Lackey, and within 10 points of Dan Haren, Aaron Harang, and Wang. He's within two points of Ted Lilly and he's better than Roy Oswalt, Carlos Zambrano, Javier Vazquez, Scott Kazmir, and Buehrle. He's 6th in the majors in BAA, 3rd in the NL in BAA. He's 12th in the majors in K/9, ranked ahead of Sabathia and Verlander. Among lefthanders, he ranks 5th, behind Erik Bedard, Scott Kazmir, Johan Santana, and Cole Hamels. A formidable list! But among the 11 pitchers ahead of him, only John Smoltz averages fewer P/PA. The bad: He seems to be able to turn a good outing into a bad one faster than anyone. Because of this, his quality start percentage is really low for a pitcher possessing the numbers illustrated in the "good" section. His QS % ranks below Gil Meche, Bronson Arroyo, Carlos Silva, Livan Hernandez (?!), Jamie Moyer (!!!), Miguel Batista, Jeff Francis, and Jarrod Washburn. He doesn't seem like much of an innings eater. He's got baseball's ugliest pick-off move. Some people claim his poor body language, impressive K/9 and WHIP but low win totals make him the new Matt Clement, a guy who pitches awful when he gets runs and pitches well when he doesn't. So what do you guys think?

I like Ceda, but what a disappointment for Sean O' Sullivan, Kiker, and Cahill to be that far down. Conger and Snider were two guys I was rooting for in the 2006 draft for us to grab, I'm not surprised to see them up there, of course considering Snider's build there was no question we would pass on him. At the beginning of the year the catching situation looked as miserable as any team in baseball's. Conger I liked way more than Max Sapp (those Astros really know how to draft don't they? My God what a horrid draft they had this year, that's got to be the worst draft I've seen in years) but the Cubs look way better on catcher than they did coming into this season. Soto picked things up huge, Donaldson was drafted and hit better than expected, and if you think on it, Castillo had a really fine season, defensively and offensively - a 20 year old catcher putting up a .757 OPS in Peoria is pretty good. Peoria has been the offensive graveyard for many young careers. And then there's Carlos Perez. We've come a long way from the organization outright lying to itself by putting Reyes on the 40 man and praying that Fox could stay at catcher or that Reed could hold a bat without getting it knocked out of his hand.

Yeah, I would have preferred Latos or Walden if only because they didn't fall due of a major injury with questions surrounding their recovery (although Walden's drop in velocity his senior year is mysterious). We're still not sure if Huseby can get his stuff and velocity back to where it was his sophomore year (though Huseby was in the low 90s in the AZL last season), while Latos and Walden are already looking good in the pros. In terms of big names, I think Huseby would be just as big a name if not for the timing of his TJS, he was more well known as a sophomore than any of the others were their sophomore year in HS. Is it just me, or did Huseby's TJS keep him out way longer than Nick Adenhart's? Huseby didn't pitch his junior season, then threw like 5 innings his senior season, and barely pitched for the Cubs that year. Adenhart only seemed to lose 6 months, and Huseby seemed to lose two years.

That's exactly what I mean. It should've cost a little bit of cash, not two players, one of them still a Top 10 Cubs prospect. Even if they didn't have a future with the Cubs it doesn't mean you give them away for nothing.

It's worse than that - I can't find a pitcher who has thrown at least 140 innings and has a K/BB ratio that bad in the past 20 years. Not even Nat Cornejo on the 2003 Tigers was that bad, although his K/9 was worse. The Cubs gave up one of their better prospects, Scott Moore, and Rocky Cherry. I'll say this - when we're looking to unload a garbage pitcher with a month left in the season, we wouldn't get that kind of return. I don't like Moore, he strikes out too much, but even the raw numbers for a guy his age and level are worth more than that. I still think Moore could've been part of a better trade.

It seems like every pitcher of Trachsel's level and in some cases, a lot better, has fetched less back than the Orioles got for four starts of Trachsel. And it wasn't even a July trade but an August one. Trachsel fetched back more the Orioles than the Reds or the Phillies gave up for Kyle Lohse, at least Kyle Lohse could get yo a compensation pick. Trachsel cost more than the Padres gave up for David Wells from the Red Sox, or when Kris Benson came to the Mets from the Pirates, or Joel Pineiro to the Cardinals, or even, horror of horrors, Greg Maddux to the Dodgers. Except for Wells, I think, those were all 1st deadline trades, why should Trachsel cost more for one month than Kyle Lohse, Greg Maddux, David Wells, Kris Benson, Joel Pineiro, Mark Redman, and Brian Lawrence cost for 2+ months? I call that extremely shabby negotiating. And while I'm at it can I just spew some bile at the overimportance some fans seem to place on having a "veteran presence with experience" on the roster, who has no other tangible positive qualities besides being a veteran with a pulse? Thank you.