fromthestretch

Bob I know you want to lay the wood, but don't do it....... Ned Colletti's nickname is "goats?" Guess that explains the contract Jones got after the numbers he put up in 2007.

My apologies if there is already a spring training thread, but is anyone going to any of the games in March? This year will be my first trip to spring training. My wife and I are going to the games on March 13 and 14 in Mesa and March 15 in Tucson.

Unfortunately, you described most companies perfectly... Fixed.

What's so spectacular about Petco Park exactly? I understand it is a big major league park. So how does that effect Greene's OBP exactly? One can argue that it helps it, and one can argue it hurts it. Obviously his HR's will be effected. So he'll probably hit more somewhere else, but a lot of you guys believe Figgins had a fluke year, so why couldn't Greene have had a fluke year in HR's? He only had 15 HR's each of the 3 years before last years 27. Since the park is big I think there would be more open grass for base hits to land, therefore his average should go up. And OBP wouldnt be any different than batting average in a different park because walks have nothing to do with the size of the park. Petco Park has suppressed offense significantly since the first pitch was thrown there. It is to pitching what Coors Field is to hitting. Figgins year was potentially a fluke since he put up a .391 BABIP. During his 2004-2005 seasons, his BABIP was below .350 (which it still a rather high mark itself). Greene's 27 homers could be a fluke, but considering that he's slugged over .500 on the road three of the last four years, I think it's safe to say he could hit for pretty good power if he didn't have to play half his games in San Diego. As for walks and OBP, you are correct that an increase in his OBP away from Petco would largely be due to an increase in batting average. However, his career .303 BABIP on the road is actually reasonable. He could sustain that. His BABIP at home is a paltry .263, so getting him out of that ballpark should have a rather significant impact on his stats.

I'm trying to figure out how anyone can read this board and think that no one values OBP here. I think there's a disconnect, so Deuce, if you're still around... OBP is a great stat. Batting average, not so much. Players with an OBP that is largely dependent on their batting average have a tougher time sustaining a decent OBP since batting average can fluctuate quite a bit. However, players who walk a lot can still maintain a respectable OBP during years where their batting average suffers. I wouldn't say that a lot of people here value slugging over OBP, but I can see how you would infer that from the Greene vs. Theriot discussion. If you were to take Greene out of Petco Park, he'd likely post an OBP in the .320-.340 range, which is where Theriot is likely to end up. However, Theriot is never going to hit for power. I highly doubt you'll see him ever put up a SLG% over .400 in any season. Greene would be capable of over .500 away from Petco...not that he'd do that every season, but he'd probably be over .470 during his peak years. That's a substantial upgrade, especially when you consider that they would have similar OBPs. Any advantage Theriot would have in OBP in a given year (again, provided that Greene is not playing half his games in San Diego) would be minimal at best, while the advantage Greene would have in slugging would be huge.

LOVE THIS. If you guys were smart you would read it more carefully where I put "since it shows what kind of player they are." HR's and SB's are comparable depending on the player. For instance Greene is a power hitter thus he hit around 28 HR's and had around 4 stolen bases. Theriot is a speedy guy meaning he hit around 4 HR's and has about 28 SB's. See how they are comparable. I'm not saying I would take 28 SB's over 28 HR's, but im saying thats the type of player they are. Greene has a good amount of HR's for the type of hitter he his, and Theriot has a good amount of SB's for the type of player he is. Why is it ok to say that HR's and SLG matter but OBP and SB's dont??? Who the ____ decides that that is more important in baseball? I completely disagree. I think OBP is just as important as stuff like SLG. I think batting average is just as important as stuff like HR's. It's ridiculous to say it is not! The overwhelming majority of people on this board will agree that OBP is a very important statistic. Batting average is not. While I understand the point you are trying to make when comparing SB and HR, they just aren't comparable. A home run equals a run, whereas a stolen base does not, thus making home runs much more valuable than steals.

I'll save you the time!!!! Greene vs. Theriot BA- .254 vs. .266 (hmmmm) OBP- .291 vs. .326 (hmmmm) BB- 32 vs. 49 K- 128 vs. 50 (ouch) SB- 4 vs. 28 (comparable to the HR's since it shows what kind of player they are) HR- 27 vs. 3 (this is the only thing Greene is that much better than Theriot)... power #s In my opinion I would rather have Greene than Theriot. But based on numbers Greene is god awful. An OBP less than .300!!!!! Are you kidding me? Yes Greene plays good defense and hits for more power. But Theriot isnt that type of player. There is no way Greene is more of an upgrade over Theriot than Figgins is over Lofton. Greene plays half his games in Petco Park which is like the Bizzaro Coors Field. If he didn't have to play 81 games there, his stats would look much more impressive. His career numbers on the road are .280/.335/.515. So yes, he's a much bigger upgrade over Theriot than Figgins is over Lofton.

Me too. As I started thinking WWJHD, I kept hearing this voice from the burning bushes whisper the name ...Pierre. (followed by cackling laughter from the entire community called DodgerBlues...), and the more I kept trying to shake it, the image of Stymie kept coming back. It's frightening, but I could see it happening. I can see him trading for Gary Matthews, Jr. before he deals for Pierre. I think the Dodgers would have to eat a ton of money for the Cubs to consider taking Pierre.

Let me guess, you think Khalil Greene over Theriot is more of an upgrade than Figgins over Lofton?? Cuz there arent any other shortstops out there that are available. And Greene is awful! Greene is a massive upgrade over Theriot for reasons that have been discussed to death in this and other threads on here recently.

The funny thing is that as he gets older, he's getting signed earlier. It's inevitible that age will catch up with Lofton sooner or later. However, he could also remain productive for a few more years. It's too bad he can't hit lefties very well. Figgins scares me. A .391 BABIP last season? I can't see him repeating that in 2008.

Lofton's free agent history: October 28, 1997: Granted Free Agency. December 8, 1997: Signed as a Free Agent with the Cleveland Indians. November 5, 2001: Granted Free Agency. February 1, 2002: Signed as a Free Agent with the Chicago White Sox. November 4, 2002: Granted Free Agency. March 14, 2003: Signed as a Free Agent with the Pittsburgh Pirates. October 30, 2003: Granted Free Agency. January 6, 2004: Signed as a Free Agent with the New York Yankees. November 2, 2005: Granted Free Agency. December 20, 2005: Signed as a Free Agent with the Los Angeles Dodgers. October 31, 2006: Granted Free Agency. December 12, 2006: Signed as a Free Agent with the Texas Rangers. Looks like he signs well before the last second most of the time.

It's absurd to choose between the two since those aren't the only options the Cubs have. However, if they were, B is the better option. I would also refrain from calling people dumb...especially in a post where you cite batting average as a "real good" stat.

You forget the fact that this job is just a placeholder until Selig resigns and MacPhail becomes the commissioner. If it weren't for that then I'd completely agree with you. Well, he's going to have to spend the next five years with the word "placeholder" on his business card, since they just re-upped Selig through 2012.

You're right: http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/david-eckstein-mvp-trophy-400a-103006.jpg Yeah, I forgot he won that World Series single-handedly. Not that Eckstein was bad in that series, but Molina and Rolen had a better series than he did. If only there were readily available pictures of every scrappy guy that didn't amazingly win an award he didn't deserve... In other words, "scrappy" helps you win the hearts of those that vote for awards, which has shown to be more valuable than actual production.

Don't trade off our assets for Figgins to play in CF. Just sign Lofton. Murton isnt much of an asset!!! Lofton does not compare to Figgins. Figgins is a stud, Lofton is a good cheap CF, but dont compare him to Figgins. Trading Murton and other stuff from the Cubs (Cedeno, dempster, marquis, veal, patterson) is worth getting Figgins over Lofton! Lofton is old, he will decline soon. Figgins will be good for years. You're not giving up assets for Figgins. But i dont think the Angels will trade Figgins without getting studs from us. Figgins is a stud? He's a lousy defensive infielder, so his versatility isn't worth all that much. He's also one year removed from a crappy season. His career OPS is around .750. Is that really worth giving up "stud" prospects when Lofton could possibly match his production in 2007 for a small fee?

You're right: http://www.aolcdn.com/aolr/david-eckstein-mvp-trophy-400a-103006.jpg Yeah, I forgot he won that World Series single-handedly. Not that Eckstein was bad in that series, but Molina and Rolen had a better series than he did.

I just think that I saw a lot of stuff I liked from Theriot this year. And I have seen no player worse than Cedeno has looked at the ML level. And the Cubs management must agree with me if they insist that Theriot is their starting SS. I hope Cedeno improves and his minors numbers translate to the majors, but for some reason they haven't and I dont know if they ever will. Now can we end this conversation because it isnt getting anywhere. Cedeno was 23 during his lousy 2006 season. The Cubs insisting that Theriot is their starting shortstop does not make it a good decision. This is the organization that gave 609 plate appearances to Neifi Perez in 2005. Enough said.

If Theriot indeed gets "tons of pitches to hit," then he looks even worse considering he posted a whopping .672 OPS with all those great pitches to hit. The reason some people think that Cedeno can improve is that he's crushed the ball at AAA and winter ball and is three years younger. Theriot just turned 28. Being "scrappy" only gets you so far.

But he didn't and that's been proven. He wasn't a power hitter so he didn't have a good slugging percentage. He wasn't a leadoff hitter so he didn't post a high OBP. We've established he takes no pitches at all. So what in the world is your argument here? I'm saying he has a good eye at the plate. Way better than Cedeno's. And one stat can prove that. Theriot has just about the same amount of walks as strikeouts. That is very rare at the ML level. Only a handfull can do that. Besides guys like Bonds, Helton and Pujols who have 10x more Walks than Strikeouts, it seems to be that most major leaguers have like double the strikeouts. Cedeno has 5x as many strikeouts as walks, and that is an understatement. That doesn't make him a good offensive player. High strikeout totals do not necessarily mean that a player is bad offensively. If so, that makes Ryan Howard the worst hitter ever.

I'm sorry, but the stats are more accurate than your memory. The stats actually show that he indeed is not a patient hitter and that he did not get on base at a decent rate.

49 walks is not even close to being a lot of walks, when you consider that he had 597 plate appearances. Did you only watch games in July?

You're joking, right? Purdue lost at home to Wofford and Iowa State. I don't think they're that good. The Iowa State loss was in Vegas, not at Purdue. Both of those losses also came during a stretch where they had five games in nine days coming off finals week. That's no excuse for losing to Wofford, but a young, inexperienced team is going to struggle from time to time. I'd rather have it happen then than during conference play. They're certainly not the best team in the Big Ten, but their ability to play defense is going to keep them in most ballgames. Of their five losses, only one - a 10-point loss to Missouri - has been by more than three points.

And again, when you realize that in 99.99% of these situations, the hitter can do far more damage to you than a runner, it's not that hard to focus on the hitter. You don't have to be "super human" to deal with that. As you said, these are extremely talented athletes that have amazing ability. They are playing at the highest level of competition. This is what they do for a living, and they get paid handsomely for it. Asking them to be able to focus with a fast runner on base is not asking a lot of them.

Considering the level of competition in MLB, I would wager that not a lot of pitchers concentrate on runners to the point where it negatively impacts their ability to deliver an effective pitch. We're not talking about a bunch of high school pitchers here. These are guys who have pitched a ton of innings with guys on base. As pitchers progress, most learn how to deal with it. I'm not saying that every single major league pitcher deals with it well. But those that don't are probably in an extreme minority. A pitcher can keep a runner honest without losing focus on the hitter. If you're throwing over to first, that's where your focus should be. If you're delivering to the plate, that's where your focus should be. You can still give the runner a look before you deliver the pitch, but you can do that without taking away focus on the pitch you're about to throw. You're making major league pitchers out to seem weak-minded. It's not like these guys have never pitched with a guy on base.

Playoffs are pretty much a crapshoot. The 2006 Cardinals are a perfect example of that. And I have no idea why you would single out individual players when discussing World Series victories. Bonds didn't lose the 2002 World Series for the Giants. Besides, how did we go from speed having an effect on a pitcher's performance to World Series wins? Yes, there is more to baseball than statistics. Proper scouting and player development can play a big role. However, it would be foolish to dismiss statistical analysis.