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Raisin is probably more knowledgeable on this than I am, but I thought Watkins fell solely because of his commitment to Witchita State. I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember something along the lines that, had teams known he wouldn't have gone to college, he might've gone in the top 10 rounds (or I could be mixing it up with someone else).

I'm admittedly skimming through the discussion, so I might miss some stuff. On the whole, I actually agree with Kyle ... sort of. Amaya needs to prove it at a higher level, and the chances of Torreyes/Bruno becoming ... if not special, above average, is still probably slim, so on the whole, a lot of organizations can probably look at their 2nd basemen and say that hey, we've got somewhat similar guys. On the somewhat flip side, I do think Amaya has a chance to be above average to good at 2nd, particularly if the defense improves at 2nd. I'm surprised at Glassey's comments that he thinks Amaya's defense at 2nd is better than Bruno (but part of that could be that Bruno shifted around so much, impacting perspective on his ability there). Was it Callis a month or so ago that gave a "positive outlook" on Amaya? If he reaches said positive outlook, he would be a good defensive 2nd basemen, with some pop, some base running potential, and an ability to hit for a solid average. At 2nd base, that'd be nice, particularly if he can fit at the top of the order. I've noted before that Torreyes is going to have to be a "prove it guy", and really, I lump Bruno in a similar boat. I've said before that I like Bruno a lot (and have noted personal bias as a UVA fan), but I've also said that Bruno is going to have to be a "prove it at each level" guy because he's a similar guy as Torreyes. Both have shown excellent hit tools, Bruno in college and this year, (and one could argue, Bruno's hit tool may be better than Torreyes), but the numbers don't mean a ton as it's the NWL. I think he'd be an above average to plus defender at 2nd, and I think he has average power (although more doubles than HR power). But we're really going to have to see how his hit tool plays up against tougher pitching to gauge whether or not he has MLB potential, and particularly, MLB starting potential. I think he does, but only time will tell on that. I sort of leave Watkins out of the mix for my top 3, but if you buy his summer numbers as more reflective of his ability, then he's in the mix. But he's also another "generic" guy. The other guy that could potentially be ... something more than "generic" might be Zeke DeVoss since he probably has the most speed of the foursome. Of course, there's a whole litany of guys who could end up at 2nd, including Marco Hernandez, but that would just extend the discussion way too far for now.

Wrigley, we have the money, obviously, but I'm just not sure I completely buy them giving a 4-5 year contract at prime money to land a big fish. And Edwin Jackson will likely be one of the prime fish this offseason. Maybe I'm off on their intent ... That said, davell is probably right. If Jackson gets a qualifying offer and turns it down (almost no chance of him taking a one year deal.. IMO ... as I think he'd want a multi-year deal if possible, and he's coming off a good season), I doubt we'd be in on him. ____ I have my doubts we'd get in on Greinke (which I assume would take at least a 5 year deal), but I guess I could see it if the price is reasonable enough for them. As a total side note, I wouldn't be surprised if a surprise club or two get involved in the Greinke bidding. For example, I'm thinking that the Orioles might ponder it. They have some money to spend, and they could use an ace (and another bat, but my hunch is that a staff ace might get prioritized as a need this winter).

Wait ... am I reading Conor right there? Is he saying that Watkins as the highest overall ceiling of the bunch? Because ... I'm hard pressed to buy that. The highest ceiling? Amaya, IMO, has a higher ceiling at 2nd if he becomes an above average defensive player who hits for power. I'm also a bit surprised that he says Amaya has the edge defensively at 2nd over Bruno. I know Watkins seems to be gaining a lot of steam right now, but I really would like to see him string together one solid consistent year of offensive work before buying him as a regular. Off the top, he's run hot and cold in his last two stops, getting off to slow starts to the year. I think one month last year could be chalked up to a clear BABIP issue, but I don't recall insanely extreme BABIP numbers on the other months. I just have a tough time buying him as a regular, but here's hoping I'm wrong. I made a comment somewhere recently, don't recall (probably TCR?), about how I wouldn't sleep on DeVoss just yet. The numbers make for an odd read on what might happen next year, and smarter people with more time to spend can come up with a better analysis than I could, but I could see him break out offensively in the FSL. That said, my preference is still to have Bruno go up to FSL and take 2nd (although ... Bruno could go up and take 3rd ... I guess ... and move Geiger to 1st/corner OF ... I'd rather see Bruno get regular time at one position, but realistically, my guess is that they'll have him play multiple positions as he works his way up).

I'd be intrigued with a guy like Jackson, a guy still in his prime and for a 3-4 year deal, will likely still be in it at the end of it. His velocity did dip a bit this year, but I haven't heard of a serious injury. Still ... something for any team to consider. That said, I'm still taking a wait and see on Jed's comments as it relates to spending big on FA's. I tend to think that we're looking at more, say, 2-3 Maholm-esque signings, than 1 big fish. I hope I'm wrong - a rotation of Garza/Shark/top Edwin Jackson looks fairly good, and much as I'd love to get someone like Rodon in 2013, it would feel a bit better to not go through two horrible seasons (that said, I'm not that against a 2nd horrible season if they opt for that course).

I'm surprised by how high they had Marco, and I'm surprised that he was ahead of Jeimer, but Marco finished strong whereas Jeimer cooled off a bit. I loved seeing Marco's K and BB numbers each month there - let's hope he carries it to Peoria next year. That said, I still wonder about the generous 15 HR ceiling ... but this is the 2nd straight year where I've seen that number tossed around. For all his warts this year, Marco's biggest problem this year was his approach, and if that improves, he's still a dang good looking shortstop prospect. I was mildly stunned at how high Vogelbach was placed ... but looking at the list, the talent base isn't that deep (which they note).

SCS - First, my general take, but I have some biases, is that Bruno is viewed as a better defender player ... at almost any spot. 2nd ... I've also argued that, much as I like Bruno, he will be a "prove it at each level" type of guy. Maybe other people have been hyping up Bruno here more (although I don't recall it), but I certainly don't think calling a guy as a "prove it at each level" guy is exactly a ton more praise than calling Saunders a guy that looks like a utility option.

Sounds about right. I was expecting Rhee would relieve in the AFL. I made this remark somewhere recently, maybe not here ... but Rhee as a reliever (something that was always a possibility dating back to his Peoria days) ... could be one of the more fascinating relieving arms in the system. I mean ... if he can ramp up the fastball a bit to say, 93/94 on a more consistent basis, then he has late inning potential, as he might have a more consistent out-pitch than any of our other top relieving options.

Very borderline, IMO. I tend to think that a ceiling for his HR power potential, if he develops, is probably in that 15ish, so 20 seems a bit high, but yes, I'm believer that there's some pop in the bat, provided that he can find a way to balance average and power. I tend to view Bruno, if he develops, as a guy that could maybe give you 10-12 HR's, a fair amount of doubles, and a solid/high average. I like Bruno a fair amount, but he'll need to show that power to really move up in the rankings, because the type of player he is, for me, he really needs to prove it each year at each level. I think he will, at least, in the low minors, but if I'm going to be critical of other guys for having some limitations, I ought to be fair to guys I like. What I'd really like to see is Bruno be given 1 main position defensively. He can still occasionally sub at other spots, but having one main position would be nice. Ideally, it's at 2nd, because that's where he would profile best, although 3rd is possible. Hence why I am hoping he shows well in the Spring and forces his way to Daytona, where he could potentially start at 2nd or 3rd. Amaya's ceiling is good enough that he should be given every chance to man 2nd on a regular basis in Peoria, and same goes for Candelario. DeVoss and other possible 2nd/3rd guys, guys that were in Peoria, are nice, but not as intriguing as Bruno, IMO, as of now. Anyhow, a long way to go.

There's really no need to even contemplate the idea of trading Vogelbach anytime soon. By the time Vogelbach gets to AA/AAA, Rizzo will be likely be in his arbitration years. Do I think there's a chance we move Vogelbach at some point? Sure. But Candelario will stick at 3rd for at least a couple more years in the low minors, so there's no real concern on getting Vogelbach the time at first. Anyhow, I say this to note that, if you want to talk about a team that could be looking for a future first baseman, the easy team to consider, considering the background of our FO, is Boston, who really do not have a guy in the pipeline unless Lavarnaway moves there full-time (unlikely). As for the list, looks good for us. The write-up on Soler makes it sound like he might be better off in LF.

At first glance, I like the list. Some non-Paniagua questions (as I'm not sure what I'd do with him either) - 1. Minor curiosity on the placement of some of the prep arms, like Maples, Underwood, and Blackburn. Curious what your thinking is with Blackburn leading the pack there, and at a relatively high spot. 2. Bruno does seem a bit high there, and I like him a lot, but he's the type of guy that's going to have to, for me, prove it at each level (again ... I like him a lot). Although, I do think he'd make my top 30 relatively safely (say, 22-27 range). 3. On the flip side, Ha seems a touch low. I've never been the biggest Ha fan, but hot ending, solid tools, and by all accounts, is looking like a potential premiere defensive center fielder.

Wouldn't 40 power put him around 12-15 HR in the majors? I tend to think of 40 power as more 10-15, but that may just be some random idea that came into my head at some point. Sure, average power. It sounded like, and I've been quite busy of late so maybe I missed some stuff, but it sounded like his power potential might have inched a touch higher this year. 40/average power was sort of the projection last year, and the snippets out there this summer seemed to suggest that he might have a touch more relative to what his potential ceiling might be.

I do really like Amaya, so I'm going to come across sounding like negative nancy here, but it should be noted that Callis is roughly talking about a ceiling there (he did use the word optimistically, so it's not necessarily ceiling, but at least, more of a high point). If his ceiling is "6 bat, 4 power, 55 run, 5 glove, 5 arm and arm", and he reaches said ceiling ... great. I'm actually surprised that he only gave a 4 on power as an optimistic point. 4 sounds more in line with the reports last year ... but this late in the season, it's hard to believe that the guys at BA are basing things off of last year's reports.

My 2 cents on the Mayo list - Nothing personal to Mayo, but at first glance, I couldn't believe that list. I thought it would be hard this winter to make a Cubs list that would definitely leave me ... scratching my head, but that list does it. Now, they've edited the list to put Villanueva in there at 7, and I think, sliding everyone down a notch, but still. I'll even grant him the benefit of the doubt on Paniagua and that he might've just forgotten about him, but ... No Alcantara? Soler at 5? I'm still intrigued enough with Brett Jackson ... and I've noted before how I'm a big Arodys fan ... but Brett's coming off a horrid minor league season (for his status) and a major league run that isn't exactly turning heads, outside of the number of K's he's accumulated. Arodys is coming off injury, and there has to be some legitimate questions on whether or not he can start (again, fully expect the Cubs to keep him in the rotation for next year, perhaps on a strict IP limit, or some piggybacking early). Soler looked excellent in his short run, as good as we could've hoped. Trey McNutt in the top 10 bothers me. I figured he'd make some top 20 lists on account of his former status, but I'm still not sure McNutt is significantly better than Marcus Hatley out of the pen. Right now, I can't buy McNutt as a closing prospect, so top 10 seems shaky. I've never been noted as a Vitters fan (outside of defending his defense at 3rd as potentially passable for a couple years if the bat played) ... but ranking Lake ahead of him, IMO, is a slap in the face to Vitters. Never been that huge on Maples, and I'm not sure he's done anything to justify the placement there. Maybe back end top 20. One thing I do sort of like, although he's probably a better fit a few spots down, was seeing Whitenack's name on the list. As a small quibble, I think Cabrera should be ahead of Zych ... and it's debatable if either should be on. But I can understand putting a power pen arm with closing potential, like Cabrera, in the back end of a top 20 considering how a lot of the other options are raw guys far away. Oh, no Jae-Hoon Ha? Nick Struck has a better case for top 20 than some of those that made it on. No Torreyes? No Marco Hernandez? All in all, I thought this was a head-scratching list, more head-scratching than I expected out of any Cubs lists this winter.

I would put Amaya, but I bet they pick Alcantara. They usually give the edge to guys in the higher levels. The tough thing with possibly ranking Amaya that high is that, as of now, he looks like a prospect where his bat will have to carry him. He's had decent reports at 2nd this year, but he's no lock to stay there. Considering how far away he is, that's a tough combination for most lists. I tend to think Alcantara will be on BA's top 10. They seemed to give some positive reviews on scouting opinions of him this year.

Eh ... seen him pitch enough to not really care. I mean, decent middle relief/AAA option, could definitely see him put things together and become useful, but eh.

I want and hope he does. I think he can handle the jump. Bruno was too advanced for this league, but Devoss blocked him. You know what, I thought Bruno should've gone up earlier, but I'm not sure it was necessarily DeVoss blocking him as it was the Cubs trying to figure out what they want to do with him defensively. All that said, he really should start next year at Daytona. Wouldn't surprise me if they kept him in a utility role up there, though, with the purpose of getting him AB's as they sort out guys future. Would love to see him get the chance to run with it at 2nd.

I've always liked Castillo, but as a backup and not as a starter. My reasoning was that his highest full season OPS in the minors was .757 prior to his 2010 OPS of .815, which was in the extremely offense-happy PCL. I'd love it if he does become an average or better starting (offensive) catcher and catchers do tend to develop later than other players offensively, but I've never been a big believer in his offensive capabilities. I'm not exactly the opposite, but I've never been a big believer in his defensively capabilities. He has all the tools to be solid, if not better, defensively, but he just never ... for lack of a better term right now, rounded off the edges. Offensively, it's not that I've been a believer in his offense, but you know he'll hit for some power, and you know he'll strike out a bit, and you know he'll have some problems making contact at times. All in all, I'm not sure he's a long range, multiple year starter yet, but for the near future, the next 2-3 years, he's fine as we retool.

They've definitely had a lucky year, but I'm almost certain that their Pyth record for the last 45 games, when they started to catch up with the Yankees, would be similar to their stellar run during this stretch. Part of that was due to the return of Nick Markakis, and part of that was due to the stabilization of the rotation in some respects. When Jason Hammel went down, they got decent-solid performances out of Miguel Gonzalez and Chris Tillman to go with the steady Wei-Yin Chen. And during this stretch, their defense finally settled down. Oh, and Mark Reynolds finally started being useful, offensively and defensively (although that's really only in the last 2 weeks). All that said, this is a very mediocre team. There's a long way to go, but I certainly wouldn't bet against the Orioles making it. And if they make it, they could be a dangerous club - if that bullpen is on, O'Day/Strop/Johnson can really shorten games for them (Strop is the most talented of the bunch, but he's also the most ... Marmol-esque nerve-wracking of the bunch). Add in Matusz as a match-up lefty and that pen will give them a shot if the starters can be decent.

I can think of a couple systems where someone like Trey Martin would be one of their top CF talents, a raw guy with tools, someone to hope on. Still wonder how much power he can develop.

I wouldn't worry at all. Way too small and scattered of a sample size. How he performs in the AFL will tell us a bit more, but I fully expect him to get half a season in Tennessee next year, with an extremely slight chance of him even starting there. If he starts in Tennessee next year, I want Brandon Hyde out so someone more conservative like Oneri Fleita can come back. Fleita was ... an enigma. There were guys that I thought were pushed fast ... and then there were guys that I thought were slow-played. I remember that summer when Vitters was sent back to Boise and there were loose rumors on why that happened ... I kept wishing he was pushed faster. Very curious how Hyde turns out. I wasn't impressed with the Marlins system the last few years, but how much of a role Hyde had in that is debatable.

I didn't mind it, or at least, I think I didn't mind it. There are things that we can't know, like how he handles failure and instruction, but he clearly wasn't being challenged in Peoria enough, and with Alcantara's injury, there was an opening. If the Cubs felt he was a mentally tough kid, then whatever happened at Daytona is fine. Now ... he has to learn and put it into action. Easier said than done, but I expect he will adjust. I'm more curious about how he handles the jump to AA, which I still expect to happen next year.

My hunch is that it may depend on if Wilken is around, but at this point, it's clear that his arm simply never got back to what it once was (leaving aside the debate of how good he was to begin with is the fact that even the most pessimistic Simpson person pre-draft has to acknowledge that the velocity now isn't what it was then ... low end numbers pre-draft were always low 90's).

I tend to think he can hit for a tad more pop, but the biggest positive was that after a slow start on the walk front, he showed better discipline down the stretch. I tend to think that the fact that he had to be UVA's number 3 hitter led him to be a bit more swing happy early on, and I think he adjusted. I'm a big, big fan, but obviously, there's some risk there. I hope they give him a chance to settle in at a position, rather than developing him as a utility guy. I could see him become a very good, top of the order 2nd baseman option. In all honesty,though, his NWL numbers don't mean that much. He should dominate that level offensively. He really should've gone up to Peoria at some point, IMO (his Wahoo teammate, Chris Taylor, got called up to the MWL and Bruno is a far better offensive player than Taylor, IMO).

I kind of doubt our FO is very high on him. They didn't protect him last offseason. I look at this this as a last gasp chance for him to impress. Well, what I'm curious about is if he's being sent as a starter or a pen arm. I really wonder if they may ponder him as a pen arm, where his stuff may play up. I really wouldn't look at last year's decision as a sign that the FO isn't high on him. Now, don't get me wrong ... I don't think our FO is high on him, but while I had thought Rhee had a shot to be protected, it was actually a fairly logical gamble. The chances of Rhee sticking for a full year in a big league pen this year was slim, so they kept roster flexibility. Anyhow, I do wonder about him in the pen. He also seems to pitch better in the summer. I mean ... if his changeup is plus, and the fastball plays up a bit more out of the pen, he really could be as valuable as say a Kevin Rhoderick out of the pen (admittedly, that doesn't mean that much, as I've never viewed Rhoderick as more than a middle relief arm with borderline setup potential ... I actually wonder if Rhee could be better than that ... I don't know if the numbers were out there, but I'd be very curious to see how Rhee fared against batters the first time through, the 2nd time through, and so on.)