Sammy Sofa

I'm not thinking the D-Backs will last much longer. If the Rockies win tonight, they're just one win shy of having won 20 in a row. The momentum they have now blows what the Cardinals had last year out of the water, and they're actually a good team. I'm going to be really surprised if they don't win it all and become the 3rd of the 4 most recent expansion teams to go to and win a WS series before the Cubs finally go again.

Compared to what we're getting from Theriot? I like the riot, but he just didn't bring his game consistently this year. He had a great month when we were hot, and he was definitely a spark then. If Soriano continues to lead off, DeRosa should be hitting 2nd, not 5th/6th. That's why we need to figure out a decent option for RF who can hit in the middle of the order. Cedeno will not hurt us hitting 8th behing Soto. I think the consensus is that neither are good enough, and that we need to go outside the system for a SS. But if it comes down to Theriot vs. Cedeno, I'd go with Ronny. Ryan was just awful for the last 2 months of the season. and ronny was worse for five months of 2006. When you get down to it, both were good offensively for the very end of one season and for about a month then over the course of a full season.

Awful.

I never said Theriot was better than DeRosa, what I did say was a interrogative statement asking why one automatically assumes DeRosa instantly gets the job at 2b over Theriot-if Theriot is forced from short that is-without competiton during spring training. Haha, what? And DeRosa should automatically be given the job because he's better than Theriot. The same reason Derrek Lee won't be battling Darryl Ward for the starting 1B job in Spring Training. Did you just compare Lee-Ward and DeRosa-Theriot? I really hope you didn't, I'm disgusted at the comparison. i'd say those comparisons are fairly similar. No kidding. DeRosa really is that much better.

FTW.

Sorry, that's what happens when you try to snip quotes quickly :D. It's fixed now. Heh, thanks. I was being nitpicky, I know.

This is absurd. The insane love for Theriot just keeps getting nuttier and nuttier.

Dude, fix the quote function on your post. It looks like you quoted me trying to sell Theriot.

Just because he's not going to repeat 2005 doesn't mean he should be moved out of the 3 spot. His power is fine as he showed in the second half this year and there is no reason to move him in the order. I don't have a problem with Lee in the #3 slot if the Cubs get at least a little power boost elsewhere. I've been in love with the idea of batting Lee #2 in the off chance that the Cubs do get someone huge like ARod for a while now. Having someone like Lee batting #2 gives you the OBP you want up there and likely gets Soriano getting on base more and seeing more fastballs to smack. I'd have Lee at #2 and Soriano at #3. Soriano has high power and low OBP, Lee has average power and high OBP. It's silly to have Lee driving in Soriano instead of the other way around. It was especially silly when Soriano had the bad quad slowing him down. That's only suggestion about moving Soriano that has made sense besides hitting him #4.

Well, there's another season nobody has to worry about the Reds.

Why?

Bingo. The whole "Geaux Cubs" thing needs to get back on the bench where they belong.

Thanks, but I don't like the methods Dusty used. I love statistics and playing the odds (to a degree) - but I don't agree with the popular "it doesn't matter where you bat in the order" and such. I'm not that extreme, but I think it's far less defined thatn a lot of people think....like thinking the scrappy fast guy HAS to be in one of the top two slots despite having glaring holes when it comes to the production actually needed from those spots. That's not to say Soriano is perfect up top...he obviously isn't. But he has the x-factor of his tremendous power AND being fast (when healthy, which he almost always is except for part of this past season) that ultimately makes it workable. No, it's not necessarily ideal, but it's clearly what the Cubs have, so they need to then look at maximizing the production of the #2 spot. Playing "smallball" with Soriano is ultimately pointless since he's fast enough to score on the majority of hits from first that would also score him from 2nd. If the Cubs put the right batter at #2, they wouldn't worry about having to suffer a "noble sacrifice" so damn often. Putting someone there who hits at a good clip and has a decent +.350 OBP is still going to accomplish the moving over you want, but often without having to give up an out! Yes, but a team shouldn't always HAVE to manufacture a run like you're talking about. Having to resort to that kind of smallball should be the exception when needed, not the rule, on the MLB level. Butwhat does the "right way" mean? He underperforms in almost all major offensive categories if he's supposed to be an everyday player. And what do you mean about him not being an easy out? In the last month of the season, someone posted stats in one of the game threads that Theriot for the year was averaging less pitchers per AB than the team average. I have to disagree on this, especially the last sentence. And 80 runs is OK...a better hitter is going to score a LOT more? Why settle for around 80? But it's a huge leap to expect that steep a dropoff in power to continue, especially since the end of the season showed that it's very likely that it won't. Besides, to play "smallball," you need guys getting on base at a better clip than Theriot. If you want him bunting and slapping and all that stuff, it needs to be further down in the order where there's less power, not up top where we need guys on base and people who can actually drive runners in.

First of all, your ridiculous generalizations about people who simply want to see Pie actually get a sustained and consistent shot at being a fulltime player and CFer with the Cubs, something he was nowhere near getting this past season, are insipid. Pull yourself down off the cross for "daring to insult Pie." But I suppose this is just "sputtering outrage," right? Secondly, few people are simply wanting to trade Jacque simply to trade him. The idea is that now you're likely to get something since he did pick up his season, relatively speaking, in the second half and he has only 1 year left on his deal. It would be worth exploring what Hendry could get for him in deal, whether on his own or packaged correctly and the team that wants him picks up the rest of his deal. The Cubs don't "need" to trade Jacque, but they shouldn't completely ignore the idea, too. The Cubs really shouldn't ignore the idea of trading anyone if the right deal presented itself.

Oh, Jesus, God, NO.

He made his bones when Marmol was going out with cheerleaders!

didn't soriano draw a whole lot more walks when he didn't have any protection in Washington? There really are very few situations where moving a runner up with an out is useful. He did, because he was the only real power threat in the lineup, so he had a lot more intentional walks than ever before. I was thinking he might draw a few more walks with pitchers trying to nibble around him, but then I remembered how often he strikes out on pitches like that, so that part of it was definitely a mistake on my part. I do still think he'd get more hits with a better hitter behind him in the #2 spot. And I couldn't agree more with the second part. Abe seems like a nice guy, but he really buys into some of the main aspects of Dustyball when it comes to speed and sac bunting and such.

The main job of the #2 hitter is to get on base in front of the big bats right behind him, anything else is cake. Theriot simply has not shown he can sustain an ideal OBP to really be effective in that slot over the entire season. Speed is almost entirely moot. Sure, he can sacrifice when needed, but shouldn't the preferred option be that he ideally get on base without giving up an out? You're basically arguing that you want him to show up and be an automatic out. "Moving the baserunner up" really isn't that necessary, in theory, with the big bats coming up unless the baserunner is one of the slowest around. I know the point of this thread is that some people don't want Soriano batting leadoff, but it seems very unlikely that's going to happen anytime soon. The ideal situation to maximize him then is to put a hitter around him that the pitchers at least view as somewhat of a threat, either because they're going to get on base or because they have some power. Murton has shown he can do both. Even DeRosa can do both better than Theriot. Soriano is either going to be walked at least a few more times or see some more hittable pitches if you stack the batters coming up after him. Theriot, like it or not, is not really anywhere near being that kind of threat. He's not going to enhance Soriano's AB's, he's not going to get on base consistently at or over a .350 OBP...what good is he in that role besides being able to sacrifice himself?

Poor, poor Yankee fans.

Unless you're using the term "offensive" as in how he offends us with how bad he is, I don't think it really applied to Fontenot.

Totally disagree. In 161 plate appearances batting leadoff (in 2007) , Theriot hit .300 with a .342 OB % - and scored 30 runs after reaching base 42 times. All of which really isn't bad considering this was his first full year. But isn't that just comparable with Soriano at best? The only real reason Soriano is in leadoff is because that's where he for whatever reason realizes he has power. Theriot has none of that power. Those numbers you posted are pretty much what I expected Theriot had done and are exactly why I don't wnat him hitting in the top 2 spots. In my pipe dream of getting ARod, the ideal situation is putting Lee at #2, which gives you the desired OBP and gets Soriano either on base more or seeing more pitches he can pound out. I think you'd get a somewhat downgraded version of that situation by putting Murton or (even lesser) DeRosa there as opposed to guys like Theriot.

Just because he's not going to repeat 2005 doesn't mean he should be moved out of the 3 spot. His power is fine as he showed in the second half this year and there is no reason to move him in the order. I don't have a problem with Lee in the #3 slot if the Cubs get at least a little power boost elsewhere. I've been in love with the idea of batting Lee #2 in the off chance that the Cubs do get someone huge like ARod for a while now. Having someone like Lee batting #2 gives you the OBP you want up there and likely gets Soriano getting on base more and seeing more fastballs to smack.

I like a higher OB% in the leadoff spot, and realize that the big contribution Soriano makes at the top of the order is the very occasional solo home run, and disruption of the pitcher via the threat to steal. As mentioned above, Soriano stole one base since returning from the DL - and he didn't seem to be running enough to even steal his way into scoring position. With his low OB%, his shut-down running game, and his uneffected power - why didn't he hit lower in the order when he returned to the lineup? Theriot was doing a good job leading off. Stick with the OBP argument then. It's far more valuable than steals. I'd happily take a leadoff hitter who always had around a .400 OBP or better and never stole a base. Trying to hinge an argument for a leadoff hitter around stolen bases is ultimately antiquated and completely ignoring the most valuable role of a leadoff hitter. And Theriot, I believe, didn't do much better, if at all, in terms of OBP. It was basically having Soriano with zero power and the ability to steal a few bases here or there...something Soriano will likely be able to do again next year once his leg has fully healed. Theriot should be nowhere near the first 2 spots of the order when he plays. The main argument against batting Soriano elsewhere in the lineup is how awful he is with people on base and how over his career he has, for whatever reason, thrived as a leadoff hitter. The only suggestion elsewhere I've seen so far that makes sense is putting him between two other power hitters at the #4 spot. Batting him 5th is a terrible idea.

OK, his OBP isn't the greatest, but are we really talking about speed and stealing bases as if they're required for someone to be a leadoff hitter? That's pure Dustyball.

Yankee fans say they're sick of Torre. Girardi was basically schooled in coaching/managing after his career as a player by Torre. Durrrrrrrrr.