Gunned

Sure. The Cubs have a ton of money, and refuse to spend it on difference makers.

I find this to be the most offensive post in the thread. Far worse than any f-bomb. The guy shows up and makes a post that he obviously spent a lot of time on, just trying to start discussion. I don't agree with his points either, but that's no reason to respond with a childish, overreacting post and say the entire thread should be locked because he mentioned the words "clutch" and "leader." I'd be pissed off if I were him too. I rarely find a thread here at NSBB that doesn't degenerate into high school squabbling, but this probably takes the cake.

But that upgrade has to be worth the cost. Neifi is Neifi and always has been Neifi. We know Neifi will suck and has no chance to earn his 2 year $5m deal. As small a chance as it may be, at least Corey, at his age and with his skills and brief flashes of solid play, has a chance to live up to a $3m 1 year contract. But isn't the rumored deal for Jones roughly 1 year/$3 million? Even if it's a bit more, I'd pay an extra million bucks or so to have Jones instead of Corey.

Good to hear Corey was offered arbitration. Also, I guess Prior was arb eligible. I don't like the quote from Hendry on J. Jones though. Hopefully Jones turns the Cubs offer down. Oh yeah. Can't wait for him to steal $3 million from us this year. Unbelievable. What's the difference? We're giving freakin' Neifi $2.5 next year. Hopefully Hendry can find a good trade for Corey and get something instead of nothing. Yes, we're giving Neifi $2.5 million and everyone freaked out about that. So why not freak out about Corey? A majority of this board seems to be clamoring for Corey to play right field because he's "not that much worse than Jones." Perhaps. But he is worse. And an upgrade is an upgrade.

Good to hear Corey was offered arbitration. Also, I guess Prior was arb eligible. I don't like the quote from Hendry on J. Jones though. Hopefully Jones turns the Cubs offer down. Oh yeah. Can't wait for him to steal $3 million from us this year. Unbelievable.

Yeah, that's a good idea. Personally I think Patterson is best when he's just allowed to hit and trying to be a lead off hitter or a Homerun hitters is just plain wrong. I think Patterson is best when he's running in a straight line and doesn't have to apply actual baseball skills.

I think that if you assume that Eyre and Howry give Baker enough pen options so as to not completely use up Wuertz by June 15th, and if you (correctly, IMO) assume Pierre gives us about .50-.75 more OBP points out of the leadoff spot, you would win anywhere from 1-6 more games on average. Just by default, we've upped the odds tha Aramis or Lee come up with a guy on more often with Pierre leading off. However, just making these tweaks doesn't make us a contender. It makes us somewhat improved over last season, which is not Jim Hendry's job. Hendry's job is to make sure we are the best possible team going into the season. Then again there is no more Nomar, no RF as of yet and we are also hoping for 2 rookies to pan out. And Derrek Lee is unlikely to produce the way he did last year.

signing giles would be admitting that there's something to the statistic of on-base percentage. hendry will never do that, he hates OBP, and will go out of his way to avoid players who have it. Well that's a reasonable statement if I've ever heard one.

Just wondering. Haven't heard anything in a while.

I give up.

Based on what? I'm still railing to get an answer on this. What makes you think he has potential?

I can't believe the offseason has gotten to the point that people are convincing themselves Corey Patterson would be an acceptable option for right field. Fill up Wrigley! Drink the Old Style! Stuff the coffers! Yay Cubbies! I believe!

Corey can take the all the instruction in the world, it still wont change the fact that he's just not a natural baseball player. He's the classic toolsy athletic player who doesn't have any natural feel for the game. There have been thousands of these guys that have gone through the MLB through the years, and there will be thousands more. The only difference is that instead of calling them the next Odibe McDowell, we'll call them the next Corey Patterson. And this wasn't just one bad year, he's had these problems since day 1. He's always been a highly rated prospect more due to his tools than his production, dating all the way back to the minors. They are the epitome of what the Sabermetrics disciples are supposed disciplined and objective enough to discern, yet somehow when its your prospect on your team people even the most skeptical get star-struck by what could be. Let's face it, I don't care how atheltically gifted he is, if Hendry were to trade even the most throwaway pieces for a player on another team with Corey's numbers and salary and gave him a spot on the roster (much less dibs on the corner outfield spot) we would all be flipping out. The server would blow into tiny smithereens. Its because he came through the Cubs minor leagues and we've been tracking him for the last 5 years and reading all of his articles and dreaming about what could be that we have invested too much in him emotionally to face reality. With this many AB's in this bad of numbers ... if Corey were to turn his career around it would be the anamoly of all anamolies. You don't KNOW that Patterson won't produce next year. I'm not saying he is Lou Brock. All I'm saying is he DOES HAVE potential. And if he hits .270+ (or even .250 for that matter), hits 20+ HRs and has 60-75 RBIs and 25+SBs he'll likely equal or out produce all the RFs left out there except Abreu or Manny. YOU are the one who is looking through your own pre-conceived notions about Patterson, NOT ME. What makes you think he can even hit .250? Did you even watch him play last year? He would go days at a time without even putting the ball into play. He's ... not ... good ... at ... baseball.

Murton has a good chance to produce enough to justify his spot in LF. Cedeno has a good chance to produce enough to justifty his position at SS. Corey has almost no chance to produce enough to justify his spot in RF. I'm fine with keeping Corey, as a 4th OF (giving Murton and Pierre the occasional day off). But the lineup you listed is so incredibly weak and completely unjustified given a $100 million payroll. I don't think any other availbe Free Agents justify a spot in RF either. Of all the players left for RF I feel Patterson has the most potential. None of those other guys will put us over the top, but if Patterson somehow reverts back to his 2003 form he could put us over the top, and if he goes back to his 2004 form he is just as good any of the other guys we could sign. I'd prefer us to trade for a big bat but at this rate it seems like Hendry is just going to sign one of Jones, Encarnacion, or Sanders. Those guys just don't do it for me. But at least none of those guys have ever put up a cosmically, historically bad season like Patterson did in '05. Yeah Corey had a bad year, but he still has more potential then the rest of the FAs available. One bad season doesn't ruin a career. Potential? What potential? He had the worst season of any Cub in the last 44 years. Do you know how many bad baseball players have been on the Cubs during that time? By potential, do you mean that he runs fast? Because that's really about it. He doesn't know the strike zone, he hasn't learned to bunt, his power is spotty, he misjudges fly balls in the outfield and he struggles to make contact. He's a bad baseball player. That's all there is to it. Yet because of "potential" and "upside," fans get jaded into thinking he can actually produce. It's the same reason that NBA teams take high school projects over established college stars -- they like the excitement and mystery of upside.

Murton has a good chance to produce enough to justify his spot in LF. Cedeno has a good chance to produce enough to justifty his position at SS. Corey has almost no chance to produce enough to justify his spot in RF. I'm fine with keeping Corey, as a 4th OF (giving Murton and Pierre the occasional day off). But the lineup you listed is so incredibly weak and completely unjustified given a $100 million payroll. I don't think any other availbe Free Agents justify a spot in RF either. Of all the players left for RF I feel Patterson has the most potential. None of those other guys will put us over the top, but if Patterson somehow reverts back to his 2003 form he could put us over the top, and if he goes back to his 2004 form he is just as good any of the other guys we could sign. I'd prefer us to trade for a big bat but at this rate it seems like Hendry is just going to sign one of Jones, Encarnacion, or Sanders. Those guys just don't do it for me. But at least none of those guys have ever put up a cosmically, historically bad season like Patterson did in '05.

So now to get new Tejada news, we have to wade through what is sure to become a 45 page thread?

I would think Pie would absolutely have to be included in any deal for Tejada. And really, that's fine by me. We have no idea if he'll develop and using him to get a player like Tejada before his value drops is a good move.

This makes no sense.

The point is that the Cubs offered Furcal $9.5 million. He asked for $10 million, and the Cubs wouldn't give it to him. A measly $500,000 a year. No matter what you think of Furcal, that should bother every Cub fan.

Offering $10m per year for Rafael Freaking Furcal is pathetic fiscal irresponsibility, we're lucky somebody stepped in and prevented this mistake. Enjoy Neifi.

Upping the offer 2.5 million is not a "mere pittance." Fact is, Furcal wanted the cash. Atlanta would have given him stability, the Cubs would have given him security (years + cash), but he got greedy. Good riddance I say. (Of course, here's hoping Juan Pierre works out :lol: ). Upping the offer by $2.5 million is just $500k a year. That's pathetic cheapness, and it's going to bite us when our middle infield is Cedeno and Neifi next year.

One reason for Wilk> Slappy is that Wilk was injured Wilk moved to a bigger park Slappy had no excuse "Slappy" was injured for the first two months or so of last year. His second half OBP was about 30 points higher, once he was healthy. His SB success rate was also much better (77 percent).

I asked this in another thread and it never really got answered. Is it just common knowledge that Pierre is not a good centerfielder? I've never heard anyone speak bad of his defense before all the Pierre to the cubs talk started. Is he considered worse than Patterson in center? I'm asking because i honestly thought he was considered a good CF. I've always known about the weak arm but have never heard all of this talk about bad routes and late jumps. Wher is the information coming from? And who does he compare to defensively in CF? "Baseball" men who know "the game" think Slappy is a good defender because after all, a Center Fielder has to have good speed. Peirre has great speed and that saves him from tottaly screwing up. He will take a bad angle but make up for it somewhat with his speed. He will break late but make it up with his speed. But he will also not get to some balls because his speed cannot always overcome his judgement. He has a very weak arm, even for a centerfielder. All and all he is a medicore defensive centerfielder in my estimation. He is neither bad nor good. But if he is hobbled in any way he will immediately become a bad defensive centerfielder. Slappy is a one trick pony. All speed. His entire worth is tied up in his foot speed. I am not trying to disagree with you or pick a fight, because like the OP I don't know, but what is that assesment based on? Is there a scouting report somewhere or this based on your eyewitness accounts. Here's the Scouts Inc. scouting report that ESPN attaches to every player's page, so take it for what it's worth: "His defense remains a huge plus at spacious Pro Player Stadium. His range allowed the Marlins to get by with Miguel Cabrera and Jeff Conine flanking him for the first four months. Pierre's arm probably precludes him from Gold Glove consideration, but he never gives up on balls in the gap and makes his share of highlight catches. His resemblance to a young Mickey Rivers remains eerie."

This entire thread is irritating. It's just a bunch of you guys trying to sound smarter than one another by spewing stats and formulas that you read one time on Baseball Prospectus. My guess is that half of you don't even understand how to apply them. Is Pierre a flawed player? Absolutely. He's not perfect. But he does do some nice things. And most importantly, he's a Cub now, and I'm going to root for him and hope that he rebounds and has a great year. You guys can go ahead keep stepping all over one another to sound like the smartest loon in the asylum. I've had enough.

Go look at his numbers from the last three years. At the rate Renteria is declining, he'll post something like a .152/.189/.230 line in the final year of his contract.