CardsFanInChiTown

That's because not many sub 90 win teams make the playoffs due to the fact there wasn't always an extended playoff format. It'll still be a rare occurrence but Going forward I expect it'll happen more often.

yet, the single biggest reason for his success was an amazing player development story. AP is huge no doubt but I argue acquiring players like Edmonds, Rolen, McGuire, Kile, Williams, Walker and Renteria for next to nothing were the biggest reason for his success. You can argue that was the greatest GM run for acquiring players in the history of baseball. It's amazing how great the Cards were considering how little their farm system produced.

Personally I don't think the best teams always win the WS. The 06 Cards were God awful. :wink:

no, its philosophical - how the organization approaches player development and building a roster. how foolish is it to write off a player after one season? Heck, Alex Frickin' Rodriguez had a sub .700 OPS after 200 major league at-bats. I wasn't advocating writing off Cedeno. The A-Rod thing is misleading - he was 18 and 19 when he put up those stats and at the time he was considered one of the best HS prospects in the history of baseball. You can't compare him to Cedeno. EDIT - Where do you draw the line with these players? well, there are two choices - write him off or play him. so if you aren't writing him off, there is no excuse to not play him. while situations differ, the point is valid that young players may not play to their potential when they first arrive in the major leagues. in other words, you should not write off players after one major league season. Well, the 3rd choice is to send him back down to AAA while the Cubs are in the hunt for the playoffs. :wink: I do agree with your overall point though, the Cubs shouldn't give up on Cedeno. That said, it's completely reasonable to be skeptical about his future. He's not the kind of prospect you want to gamble your playoff chances on. If he starts out slow it'd be completely reasonable to go in another direction. At 24 he's still young but on the other hand he's no longer a pup.

Both the NLCS games have been pretty good.

I loved Walt but I'm ok with him leaving. The current MLB atmosphere doesn't play to his strengths, which is trading, and exposes his weakness, which is player development.

no, its philosophical - how the organization approaches player development and building a roster. how foolish is it to write off a player after one season? Heck, Alex Frickin' Rodriguez had a sub .700 OPS after 200 major league at-bats. I wasn't advocating writing off Cedeno. The A-Rod thing is misleading - he was 18 and 19 when he put up those stats and at the time he was considered one of the best HS prospects in the history of baseball. You can't compare him to Cedeno. EDIT - Where do you draw the line with these players?

There are a few differences: 1) Unlike the Cubs the Royals aren't competing for the playoffs so it's easier to absorb sub par performance. 2) Cedeno is nowhere near the prospect Gordan is. If he has a solid ST I'd give Cedeno the job but I'd put him a on short leash. The Cubs are contenders - they can't afford an everyday .247/.277/.349.

Heh, it happens. Anthony Reyes is our minor league performance/good peripherals/horrible MLB performance guy we debate about. :wink:

A poster asked about prior performance and I answered it. Theriot has been better at the MLB level and that means something. IMO you're cherry picking stats by disregarding Cedeno MLB performance and Theriot's hot start. Like I said, going forward I think Cedeno has a higher ceiling but he also has a lower floor. A 2 win difference is a pretty big deal. A .276/.341/.379 isn't great but it's also not horrible for a SS.

For some reason Walt hasn't been replying to my email lately. What a jerk. They both have been given many chances. When will NSBB draw the line? When did everyone with Jason Dubois? Actually, at worst I think Murton is a nice part time player. I'm not sure what to think of Cedeno. Every time I saw him play he looked like a complete mess. I think the jury is still out on him. Assuming the Cubs don't get a quality SS in the offseason he should be given a shot in ST. I think we agree for the most part.

Please...list these "facts" for me. Theriot 684 ABs... .276/.341/.379 Range Factor per nine innings 4.03 at SS 9 errors in 110 games at SS Cedeno 688 ABs... .247/.277/.349 Range Factor per nine innings 3.99 at SS 26 errors in 178 games at SS Ronny is younger and has more upside but Theriot has been better on the big league club by a significant margin. Both sucked. One sucked a little more than the other, but both sucked. To say that Theriot significantly improved the Cubs chances to win (which isn't what you said, but it's implied in that statement) is just wrong. At their level of suck, the difference between Theriot and Cedeno isn't going to mean much in the W column. And one's significantly younger and put up significantly better #s in AAA, so it's more likely that he's going to improve than Theriot. Nothing's certain, so you play the percentages and they favor Cedeno at SS (as between these two, as many have said, it's not like we're suggesting benching or trading away a solid starter to give Cedeno a chance here). I don't know how you can come here and argue with a straight face that the #s of a 23-year-old should be compared evenly to those of a 27-year-old when you're trying to determine who should get more playing time going forward. I think a 64 point difference in OBP in almost 700 ABs is a significant difference and would certainly make a difference in the W column. Here's the question I answered: He was only referring to what has happened. Not what will happen in the future. The fact is Theroit hasn't completely sucked and he's been much better than Cedeno. Like I said before, Ronny has more upside but teh Cubs better have a solid plan B.

In your earlier post you said he's a 2B but judging him from his SS fielding stats that's not the case. He's been better than Cedeno. As for Murton, a .352 OPB isn't all that great for a LFer. I actually like Murton but I think it's reasonable to question if he can hack it as a full time player.

One is a 2b and one a LF. If Theriot were a superior defender, it would be easier to support him. He struggles to be average at SS. Admittedly I haven't watched much of Theriot's defense but his SS metrics on BR looks merely below avg. FWIW, to a lesser extent I think you could say the same thing about Murton's hitting and defense. I'm not championing Theriot but I don't entirely understand the love for Murton and Cedeno. I think they are interesting but that's about it. I'm a little surprised how some posters reacted to skepticism about them

Also, comparing Murton and Theriot is a little unfair because one is a SS and the other is a LFer.

Please...list these "facts" for me. Theriot 684 ABs... .276/.341/.379 Range Factor per nine innings 4.03 at SS 9 errors in 110 games at SS Cedeno 688 ABs... .247/.277/.349 Range Factor per nine innings 3.99 at SS 26 errors in 178 games at SS Ronny is younger and has more upside but Theriot has been better on the big league club by a significant margin.

Ronny has been given 688 MLB ABs and he's put up a horrific .247/.277/.349 with disappointing defense. I don't think it's fair to say he's only had a few small chances. I agree he should be given a shot in ST but the Cubs better have a solid plan B.

Rentería's struggles in Boston were mostly due to a back and leg injury. Boston traded him because they were worried his injuries were going to be chronic, which turned out not be be the case.

Considering Jeff Suppan got 4/40 Glavine @ 1/13 doesn't seem so horrible.

They announced there will be at least 1 more RC release (on v5 now) before it goes gold.

Well, crap.

I think it's safe to say the Transactions forum is slow.

Haters.

See ya' later baseball cube... http://minors.baseball-reference.com/

Aaron Miles