OleMissCub

Probably so, but I don't think we have a very large aboriginal population left in America who don't associate with a tribe and haven't done so for several hundred years. As colonists pushed West alot of smaller tribes consolidated into large ones especially by the time of Little Big Horn, Wounded Knee etc.

the dude can flat out hit. There is a reason he was given the biggest signing bonus in braves history.

The most meaningful part of that girls letter was this If the tribe supports it then what is the problem. I know that the tribal council doesn't speak for everyone, but it should give everyone a good idea what the tribe thinks as a whole.

I don't know about that, Zambrano sure looks like Monteczuma to me! I've always thought he looked like an Aztec :-)

To be fair, he had a high BABIP at West Tenn and has been legging out tons of IF hits there too. didn't most people agree that he was irrationally lucky there as well? i suppose it's possible that a guy with moderately above average speed has learned the secret of the crap single, but id be pretty surprised. I'm with you Tree, he is about the luckiest player i've ever seen. That still doesn't change my opinion that he should be given a chance.

I got to know Jeff Francouer when he was here in Mississippi in AA. He's an incredibly kind and humble guy. He deserves everything he gets. on topic, FREE MATT MURTON.....good lord!!!

I would expect to see the same thing from the MS Band of Choctaw Indians about Mississippi College. Perhaps this is the southerner and the libertarian in me, but I just wish the NCAA would back off of this and let the individual schools decide what is proper and what is not. If Native Americans have grievances against some schools that is one thing, but to punish all of them I think is not fair. This is like cutting off the head to try and cure the headache...it just doesn't work like that.

I honest to god think my college team i played on could have gotten at least as many hits if not more as the Cubs got today. So pitiful. Coaching staff must go. Is that your girlfriend in your sig or just a random girl? It's a girl my cousin used to date when we were in college. I was actually engaged to an ole miss cheerleader for the past couple years....things feel apart though. This is her, not a great pic though: http://www.jasonbaker.net/umfball/2000kentucky/cheerclose.jpg

I honest to god think my college team i played on could have gotten at least as many hits if not more as the Cubs got today. So pitiful. Coaching staff must go.

Not trying to start the argument back up but has anyone ever heard an Indian refer to himself as a Native American? OleMiss it seems like you've spent alot of time around Indians have you heard an Indian refer to themselves as Native American? the ones that I know refer to themselves by their tribe. "I'm Choctaw" etc. I know when I visited Montana, the Sioux there called themselves "Lakota", the Indian name for Sioux. I imagine it's kind of the same thing with blacks. I come from the only state in the union that has more blacks than whites so I have a good many black friends and I went to a high school with a majority of blacks, and I know very few that call themselves "African-American"

i can't find a bright side. This team sucks soooo hard.

fine, we'll just have to agree to disagree. I can handle that very well. I like Radiohead, The Beatles, Tool, System of a Down, Led Zep, and Hans Zimmer soundtracks (Gladiator, Last Samurai, The Thin Red Line)

I definitely don't think Native Americans are any better or worse than anyone in history. However, unlike most good liberals, I don't think them somehow "noble" I minored in Archaeology so I spent nearly 100 percent of my digs on Native American sites and while I gained a great deal of respect for their intelligence and culture, I also saw how brutal of a people they could be. They would put GITMO to shame.

ah, I see. But it's ok for you to insuate that I am somehow some insensitive bigot?

Since everyone else is doing it Self Hating White Guy: "Humbug, you see. As a white guy he has no right to like Native American culture and wish to respect it. You see, the 'white man' is the reason why the Illini don't exist anymore. He shouldn't be able to honor them at all, never, because HE and his kind are the reason they are all dead. White people suck. White people are the only race that has ever done wrong. If it weren't for the white man, the world would be a happy place. We would all sing and dance and live in peace. You see, Indians only invented tomahawks as a response to the white man landing on their shores. You see, they never had a reason to be violent until the white man showed up" Rational person: "What about that pile of skulls that I personally found on a dig into Chickisaw mounds from around 1300AD that all had holes in the backs of their skulls where they had been executed with tomahawks, some were even children" SHWG: "The white man taught them that" RP: "White people weren't in North America in 1300." SHWG: "Well, the white man must have trasmnitted violence to the Indians through ESP or something. We've done them such terrible wrongs in the past that we can never be forgiven for. The ancestors of those white men should be held accountable for the sins of their Great Great great great grandfathers and should always be held responsible for those sins." RP: "So by that rationale I can hold Germans accountable because they pushed my ancestors off mainland Europe and onto Ireland?" SHWG: "No! It doesn't work like that" RP: "Why not?" SHWG: "I don't know"

Our local school MC was named Choctaws in 1836. It was originally an all girls college which had no sports. I'm not sure that flies, at least not in this situation. It is a possible theory though which I will accept as valid. However, I think that in the case of Choctaws, Utes, Seminoles, Illini and other "tribe" schools which are in the area of the actual tribes, I think that most likely is tribute. On the other hand, schools that are Braves, Indians, etc, basic generic Indian names, then I think you may have a case. Having a white guy (as is the case with Chief Illiniwek) in war paint doing a dance that isn't even a real Native dance is not a tribute. Maybe the nickname was meant as a tribute, but Chief Illiniwek is no more different than you being upset at Blue Collar TV's image of Southerners. Plus, I believe the ruling has to do with mascots, so the issue of the nicknames doesn't come into play. It's the mascots that do, and they are stereotypical and bogus. I never said the idiots who jump around on the sidelines were tributes, I said that naming the University after the local Indian tribe probably is.

Our local school MC was named Choctaws in 1836. It was originally an all girls college which had no sports. I'm not sure that flies, at least not in this situation. It is a possible theory though which I will accept as valid. However, I think that in the case of Choctaws, Utes, Seminoles, Illini and other "tribe" schools which are in the area of the actual tribes, I think that most likely is tribute. On the other hand, schools that are Braves, Indians, etc, basic generic Indian names, then I think you may have a case.

I wouldn't be opposed to that at all. I think alot of the people on your side of the argument would be surprised that the majority of Indians couldn't give a damn about their tribe being the mascot of a local college. It reminds me of a Mississippi issue a few years ago. There was a big deal about the Mississippi State Flag being raised because there is a Confederate emblem in the State Flag. Well, Jesse Jackson and Sharpton came down and pressured our Governor into holding a flag vote to keep it or change it. Well as it turns out over 75 percent statewide voted to keep it and 80 percent of the dominantly black counties in the state voted to keep the confederate emblem in the flag.

There is nothing, zero, zilch, stereotypical about the MC Choctaws. They don't even have a mascot who dances around. And to my knowledge there are no Choctaws who have a problem with the name of the school. If there are, that's a different matter. I think the Choctaws have bigger issues to worry about than Mississippi College, like running their massive Casinos they put on their reservation in Philadelphia, Mississippi.

How do you know it's unique. I haven't heard of half the colleges that are banned. Maybe they have strong Native American ties in their communities?

And you have a problem with that? At least that is a start. I think you're really stretching by trying to make this into some historical learning experience--especially when all these people "learn" is that X tribe existed, and apparently they had broad, flat noses, were really warlike, and chanted while using tomahawks. If you were really such a truth seeker, you'd be appalled by the misrepresentations most of these mascots create. I just don't see how Mississippi College "Choctaws" is offensive at all. I think it sucks that our local school gets punished. They have a very nice Native American studies program, enroll lots of Indians from the Choctaw reservation, have burial mounds on campus, have Choctaw museums on campus. I don't see the school being named Choctaws FOR ANY OTHER REASON than as a tribute to the local indian tribe.

Goodness gracious alive! Here we go again. You attack them by saying they weren't named to be tributes then WHY the hell are they named such???? No one has given a good answer. Other than Treebeard's brilliant yet farfetched idea about a "trophy prize" i've heard zero.

And you have a problem with that? At least that is a start.

That was my point exactly. If a school is called the Chickisaw they aren't going to have a mascot depicting an Indian cleaning a buffalo's hide. They are going to have him being fierce.

And YOU refuse to listen. I've said that Indian Joe is wrong. I've said Redskins and Redmen is wrong. But can you tell me what in gods name is wrong with the Mississippi College Choctaws. A school which has Choctaw indian mounds ON CAMPUS for crying out loud. Why should they be punished by the NCAA when they are roundly supported by the reservation nearby?? I could care less about the Utes or the Illini or Seminoles. What I care about is our local college which is full of freaking Choctaws being punished. And being part Choctaw, I like the fact that they are the Choctaws because for one thing, people and kids are stupid these days; How many people these days would know what a Seminole or a Ute was if it wasn't for the mascot. People have forgotten history and this is one way to remember it.