nilodnayr

yeah, I think I'd find another team to root for at that point I would too but only because of OJ. Well they tried him in the IF, but he would just stab at the ball. Probably because his glove didn't fit. I mean thats what he said he would play like if he ever tried the infield, not that he actually tried it.

He's better than Gil Meche. Ted Lilly is not a good pitcher. And how is he a better option than Gil Meche? Since when is a 4.31 ERA, 15-13 "not a good pitcher"? Pitching many games against the boston and new york line-ups mind you as well. Move him into the NL Central and it's easy to see why he is a good option. 5 of 7 starts in 06 vs Bos/NYY he let up 3 ER or less.

ONLY if we trade Barrett and others to the yanks for ARod.

Forget about it. It was a bad argument. We will just have to agree....to agree :)

I bet we offer arbi to Pierre

If we traded for him, we would probably extend him. I would hope so. Well after one good year preceeded by 3 bad years we might give him 136M.

Is your argument that Barrett isn't and Jones is? Barrett's last 3 year OPS+ 06:121 05:113 04:105 He outpaced Jones by an average of 15 points a year. My argument was that Jones is better than Lugo. I just implied it poorly. What is your point with mentioning Barrett?????

Obligatory Cardinals reference: Barrett's OPS was 40 points higher than the Card's production from the 5 hole last year.

Lugo OPS+ 06:94 (122 in TB) 05:105 04:94 Jones OPS+ 06:107 05:99 04:90 Jone's 3 year OPS+ (straight) average is 1 point higher than Lugo's and Lugo's is 27 points higher than Izturis'. To be fair, you'd have to add 50 more > to the Lugo/Izturis comparison. Of course, Lugo will cost nearly as much as both Jones and Izturis combined, so that needs to be considered. After looking into the #s I don't really think that if we can get something decent for Jones, it would be so horrible to replace his production with Lugo, especially when you take into consideration the predicament we will be in next offseason at SS if we don't. Your fancy stats just reinforced my point. Jones is a much better option for CF than Lugo, who is an extremely better option at SS than Izturis. Lugo will not bring enough production to warrant the 3-5M that he'll cost more than Jones. But he will surely be worth the 3M that he'll cost more than Izturis in 08. You also have to factor in who we could get for Jones and that we will have to pick up Izturis' option in 08. On a straight production basis, Lugo and Jones are about equal. Barrett is not a #5 hitter on a world series contender. Is your argument that Barrett isn't and Jones is? Barrett's last 3 year OPS+ 06:121 05:113 04:105 He outpaced Jones by an average of 15 points a year.

One positive about Jennings is that he will probably be a Type A FA next offseason and will net us good compensation picks.

Lugo OPS+ 06:94 (122 in TB) 05:105 04:94 Jones OPS+ 06:107 05:99 04:90 Jone's 3 year OPS+ (straight) average is 1 point higher than Lugo's and Lugo's is 27 points higher than Izturis'. To be fair, you'd have to add 50 more > to the Lugo/Izturis comparison. Of course, Lugo will cost nearly as much as both Jones and Izturis combined, so that needs to be considered. After looking into the #s I don't really think that if we can get something decent for Jones, it would be so horrible to replace his production with Lugo, especially when you take into consideration the predicament we will be in next offseason at SS if we don't. Your fancy stats just reinforced my point. Jones is a much better option for CF than Lugo, who is an extremely better option at SS than Izturis. Lugo will not bring enough production to warrant the 3-5M that he'll cost more than Jones. But he will surely be worth the 3M that he'll cost more than Izturis in 08. You also have to factor in who we could get for Jones and that we will have to pick up Izturis' option in 08. On a straight production basis, Lugo and Jones are about equal.

I wonder if they're on their last nerve with Penn. This is his last option year and he has just plain tanked in the majors. But he just turned 22 and has torn up the minors. I think I'd rather have him than some one like Jennings.

Lugo OPS+ 06:94 (122 in TB) 05:105 04:94 Jones OPS+ 06:107 05:99 04:90 Jone's 3 year OPS+ (straight) average is 1 point higher than Lugo's and Lugo's is 27 points higher than Izturis'. To be fair, you'd have to add 50 more > to the Lugo/Izturis comparison. Of course, Lugo will cost nearly as much as both Jones and Izturis combined, so that needs to be considered. After looking into the #s I don't really think that if we can get something decent for Jones, it would be so horrible to replace his production with Lugo, especially when you take into consideration the predicament we will be in next offseason at SS if we don't.

Lugo is the only decent SS available, and look at the difference in Lugo and Izturis. If it's Lugo for CF, then I don't want him, but if we can bump Izturis out and get Lugo at short, I'm allllll for it. All things equal, I'd definitely prefer Lugo to Izturis, but Lugo is going to be way overpaid. And you can't just dismiss his absolutely horrible performance in the NL last year (.219/.278/.267/.545 in 49 games). If we can dump Izturis and convince some other team to pay all of his salary, then I might jump on the Lugo bandwagon, but I just don't see that happening. You can't dismiss it, but you can sure take it within context.

That is the best possible rest of the offseason, but it will probably end up with... Sign Lilly for 4/40 Sign Meche for 3/27 Sign Floyd for 4+incentives

Cause "not that good of a player" >>>>>>> Izturis you forgot one > Izturis would be fine if you could hide him in the 8th slot, but the Cubs don't have that luxury. Who is going to hit in the 8th slot if not Izturis?!?!?!? I wasn't clear, sorry. If you could hide him the 8th slot and not expect much offensive production from him. Something like this A. Jones Soriano Lee Aramis J. Jones Murton Barrett Izturis Pitcher Gotcha...he will hit in the 8th slot, but wont be hidden. I don't think Murton/DeRosa are horrible 7 hole hitters.

Cause "not that good of a player" >>>>>>> Izturis you forgot one > Izturis would be fine if you could hide him in the 8th slot, but the Cubs don't have that luxury. Who is going to hit in the 8th slot if not Izturis?!?!?!?

Because Jones is the new Walker. Nobody knows why he must go. But dammit to hell, he's got to GO!! Well, Jones is supposedly getting traded in this deal, so CF would be open. But why not just look for another CF and put Lugo at SS? Because Hendry loves Izturis

The one thing not mentioned is that the SS FA market is even worse next year than it is this year. So if we do not acquire Lugo, we will definitely have to pick up Izturis' option barring a trade. Thoughts... I'm not a big fan of Jennings, but he is good value for Jones. Lugo may not be as much of a downgrade from Jones as everyone thinks... Lugo OPS+ 06:94 (122 in TB) 05:105 04:94 Jones OPS+ 06:107 05:99 04:90

They're looking at every possibility, including putting Jock there. Nothing is firm yet as trades take a lot more work than do free-agent signings. Ryan Church and Gabe Gross would be ideal candidates. Coco Crisp is a switch hitter

ok that sounds really bad Well, he is going to the city of brotherly love!

By the end of the offseason, Jones could definitely have some value considering his contract in this market, and he had a career year too. Especially if some team gets shut out from making offensive upgrades. Unfortunately, the one GM who is just ga-ga for overvaluing player's break out 06 seasons is the one and only Jim Hendry.

Can you imagine Zito when the wind is blowing out at Wrigley... Ugly, ugly stuff. KCtigers, what were Schmidts GB, LD, and FB percentages the last year if you don't mind looking it up for us... :wink: GB - 37.4 LD - 19.3 FB - 43.3 Career-wise though Zito's (and Lilly's too) GB, LD, and FB percentages are very comparable to Schmidt. Why does everyone want to bring in Schmidt over Zito? Schmidt's GB, LD, and FB percentages from 2002-06 are: GB - 38.6 LD - 20.2 FB - 41.3 Zito's from 02-06 are: GB - 38.0 LD - 19.0 FB - 43.0 Lilly's from 02-06 are: GB - 35.4 LD - 21.5 FB - 43.1 So why are people so anti-Zito here? Besides the risk of an arm injury, which is possible for any pitcher, I don't really get it. How are Zito and Lilly's FB% trending in those 4 years?

Jennings would definitely be. Westbrook may be (although it's close, I'm really not sure which one is better) but Igawa would be a better option than either of the other two because he can be signed rather than having to give up talent. Jennings is not coming to the Cubs unless they come down significantly with their demands for Hill, and Westbook is close enough to Igawa that it is not worth trading talent for him unless the deal was really good for the Cubs. Are you implying that Jennings is better than Westbrook???? Fan Graph Comparions Jennings is the pitching version of Mark DeRosa. His peripherals were not great this year and poor before. Hes never put up an ERA under 4.5. Westbrook has been significantly better than him.

I couldn't have said it better myself. And the majority of my argument was rebutting your claim that soriano was affected by injuries, not as much about Wilkerson.