nilodnayr

Well, I guess the Cubs will be good in 2007. 2007 Cubs: great team or greatest team of all time? Stephen Colbert would not overpay for mediocrity...and you know he would have brought in Church and JD Drew and traded for Curt Schilling.

Like a cow's opinion

Funny that's exactly what my friend said about Lilly but I think Lilly is better than that. It's not even close. The most they have in common is that their left-handed. Do you bother to look stuff up? Career Averages Lilly Estes 184 203 IP 99 90 ERA+ 4.6 4.7 ERA 75 104 BB 157 148 SO 1.3 1.5 WHIP Pretty close, but Lilly looks marginally better. Only because he had two fluke years in 02 and 04 where his BABIP was 70 and 40 points (respectively) lower than what it should have been. If you were to normalize for Lilly's luck I bet their ERA+ and WHIP would be a lot closer. Note:I didn't look to see if Estes has been lucky or not.

I was about to say "cue the Penny for Jones" threads. I still say that Manny ends up in LA, with Penny and a couple of others in Boston. Makes perfect sense, the original rumor was a package around Penny (and top prospects) for Manny...Jones also plays the OF, so they must be interested in him for Penny as well. This is the Duke thread all over again. Rumor is that Louis Gonzalez is going to sign with the Dodgers. Penny + Gonzo > Jones

First I've heard of 5 years, though it's not citing a real offer. Ugh, ugh, and double ugh. I think it was posted in this thread a couple pages back from the contra costa times.

And you're going to pay an enormous premium for that slight probability. No, but Jim Hendry and the tribune are, and I can understand some of the logic. This is all I am trying to say: I would feel more comfortable with Meche or Lilly, money not withstanding. Lilly and Meche represent a safer bet than our in house options, but will come at a ridiculous premium. Hendry, in all likelihood, is going to pay that ridiculous premium, and rather than have my head explode thinking about the financial ramifications, I am trying to rationalize it as best I can. I definitely see what they are thinking. All I'm saying is they are paying a huge sum in an attempt to guarantee mediocrity. Their goal seems to be to not lose 95 games, as opposed to try and field the best team possible. I'd rather lose 100 in pursuit of 100 wins than win 81 in pursuit of 85 wins. The question is, how can the Cubs reasonably pursue 100 wins with the team they have now? Umm, isnt' that why we are talking about them acquiring players? Does that mean they should not do everything in their power to put together a team that could win 100 games? Sure, if money were no option I would prefer Lilly/Meche by a bit. Goonys point is the marginal advantage they have over Marshall/Guz is way too small compared to their cost. While, the marginal advantage Schmidt has over Lilly/Meche is relatively equivalent if not a bargain compared to the cost difference.

I understand thats sarcasm, but I dont quite understand the sarcasm. Are you saying teams dont add prospects to sweeten deals? Are you saying small market/ low-budget teams dont like getting prospects and cheap players? Please explain. My sarcasm is that I do not think Marshall is close to what we would have to give up to get the deal done. While he is a prospect, I think the Pirates would require someone much higher. Small market teams like prospects and cheap players, thats exactly why they won't trade Duke for a package consisting of Jones and Marshall. Duke happens to be a good cheap player.

The only one is Jack Wilson, and they still think he's the face of the franchise (which tells you a lot about the body). Bay is the face of that franchise. And, no, Jones for Duke won't happen. If the Reds are offering a power hitting OF, it makes you wonder just it might be. This could be interesting... The Pirates aren't a team that spends 10m on an outfielder. They are usually guilty of trading them away, actually. Jones for Dukes probably won't happen. But, I wouldn't rule out Jones to Pittsburgh for someone. I dont think the bucs have any pieces we need (other than their young pitching). While I do believe Jones is a good match there, I dont think they have anything equivalent to give back to us. A three or four team deal is definitely a possibility.

Thats why we would have to throw in some prospects to sweeten the pot I think Marshall and maybe a pretty decent prospect like Moore could be possible. I think the only thing that would be possible would be Littlefield laughing his butt off right before hanging up the phone. Yeah, cause the Pirates have been such suave deal-makers in the past. And laughing and hanging up on people is most likely how professionals go about their business. Since when was Jacque Jones viewed as the equivalent of Adam Dunn on this board? Duke is better than Hill, discussion is ridiculous. Just because Littlefield has made dumb trades in the past doesn't mean he will make this one...Hendry has made some very horrible ones as well. He's not, hence the discussion of prospects and players like Marshall. WOW!! Well then that makes all the difference in the world!

His previous 4 years in the minors/majors where his worst ERA was 3.11 say otherwise. He may not have the stuff to be a good K pitcher, but it hasn't hurt his results so far. Hes a control guy who keeps the ball on the ground and in the park.

Thats why we would have to throw in some prospects to sweeten the pot I think Marshall and maybe a pretty decent prospect like Moore could be possible. I think the only thing that would be possible would be Littlefield laughing his butt off right before hanging up the phone. Yeah, cause the Pirates have been such suave deal-makers in the past. And laughing and hanging up on people is most likely how professionals go about their business. Since when was Jacque Jones viewed as the equivalent of Adam Dunn on this board? Duke is better than Hill, discussion is ridiculous. Just because Littlefield has made dumb trades in the past doesn't mean he will make this one...Hendry has made some very horrible ones as well.

Thats why we would have to throw in some prospects to sweeten the pot I think Marshall and maybe a pretty decent prospect like Moore could be possible. I think the only thing that would be possible would be Littlefield laughing his butt off right before hanging up the phone.

Thats why we would have to throw in some prospects to sweeten the pot And those prospectS would probably have to be of the Pie/Veal/Paw/Gallagher ilk. Just because the pirates are willing to trade Duke for an OF, doesn't mean they will trade him for ANY OF.

Oh Lord

You were looking in the wrong place...you arent going to find it in his stats.

Do you value Mr. BB himself Carlos Marmol anywhere near Hill? Hill is ready to go NOW. Marmol has great stuff but is still a year or two away IMO. Strangely enough I put Mateo over Marmol RIGHT NOW. Ugh, where'd you get the quote from? My bad... http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/cs-061205bestworst,1,3549563.story?coll=cs-home-headlines If it makes you feel any better, Phil Rogers wrote it, so its probably not true :) Thats what I was hoping for...thanks!

Wells, Jones, and who? Hunter? who else? Cameron...and I'm drawing a blank.

Do you value Mr. BB himself Carlos Marmol anywhere near Hill? Hill is ready to go NOW. Marmol has great stuff but is still a year or two away IMO. Strangely enough I put Mateo over Marmol RIGHT NOW. Ugh, where'd you get the quote from?

Royals realize that they are going to lose out on Bautista so they blow away Meche, as a reaction the Blue Jays lock Lilly down and we are forced to blow away Schmidt...and by blow away I mean only 6M more per year than Lilly. Thats how it keeps on playing out in my head.

Do you value Mr. BB himself Carlos Marmol anywhere near Hill? Hill is ready to go NOW. Marmol has great stuff but is still a year or two away IMO. Strangely enough I put Mateo over Marmol RIGHT NOW. Can Marmol play shortstop? He has a higher career OPS than Izturis. He used to be an outfielder, if memory serves me correctly. Wasnt he a catcher?

Supposedly, Lofton has been offered way more than the Rockies would be willing to pay

My guess is Lofton. I think I like that . . . Church has also been mentioned (for real).

Seems like just one about to happen: Not the Lieber for Mench blockbuster we were all hoping for.

Use of past tense for the race for Schmidt and Meche? good point...i think you can read it either way though like they are still in the race at press time Yeah, I think its just poorly written.

Well, let's hope it's no more than what Washburn got, since that's what Lilly said he wanted. Sori asked for Beltran $ and look where that ended up.