nilodnayr

If the prospect is Gallardo, it makes the deal look a lot better. But wouldn't Gallardo be the centerpiece in the package that the Reds would get back? Usually when trades say, "and a prospect," it usually means that it's just a fill-in to the deal. It's way overdue for Krivsky to make a terrible deal with us. I would have to believe that Gallardo is not considered a prospect at this point. Their best pitching prospect is Will Inman followed by Jeremy Jeffress. Knowing Krivsky though, he probably picked Manny Parra. Inman is pretty damn good.

i'll make you a deal. If Dunn goes to Milwaukee, you stop posting here for a year Why? I was the first one to bring up the deal DEAL: Brewers Get: Adam Dunn Reds Get: Gwynn, Wise and a prospect. well you're so put off by it that I figured you'd want to take a break Hes just passing along a link...its not like hes claiming to have insider info himself. I see no harm in it whatsoever.

On the other hand though you are giving yourself a deadline too. A team (or teams) can hold their ground knowing that in a few days you'll have to pay his entire remaining salary minus pro-rated league minimum. It works both ways.

Given the variance of those #s, kinda hard to draw a conclusion...

Assuming we are going to send Fox back down, I don't like burning one of his option years on 4 games. For the love of God, let Ward start!!!

How will the Astros have a ton of money to spend this offseason? Jennings (5.5), Biggio (5.15), Ausmus (3.5) are the only contracts worth much that are coming off. They could DFA Ensberg, thats another 4.35, but they'll also need to sign guys to replace some of them. They payroll this year is at 88M, so unless they are going to push it up past the mid 90s I dont see how they are going to have money to sign cheap guys to replace the contracts they are losing and have enough money for Dunn. Either way, I don't see how it qualifies as a ton of money (unless they trade Oswalt).

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it. You overrate you're own prospects. Then so does BP, here are their MORPs over the next 5 years Patterson =71.45M Pagan=25.475 Petrick=NA (Wuertz is 11.1M) Weeks=49.9M Wise=3M Gwynn=NA (but hes a 4th OF, no better than Pagan) What the hell is MORP? Money above replacement player? Marginal Value Above Replacement Player 1200000*(WARP^1.5) + 380000

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it. You overrate you're own prospects. I wouldn't deal Weeks by himself for those 3 guys. You're overrating Weeks by quite a bit. No I'm not. Pagan is a 5th outfielder. Weurtz is a nice little MR who basically washes with Wise. Patterson is another little MIF who will probably never be more then a reserve. Weeks, on the other hand, has big upside with a quick bat. He has some pop, and he can steal bases. He had a good year last year and is goin through some growing pains this year. He has the upside to be an all-star, meanwhile the 3 guys you mentioned have the upside of a 5th outfielder, a MR, and a utility infielder. Weeks, Wise, and Gwynn and Wuertz, Patterson, and Pagan aren't even comparable. You overrate your own guys, as many fans do. I'd say Weeks and Patterson have fairly equivalent upsides, but Wise and Wuertz? Wuertz's upside is decent closer, Wise's is a 7th inning guy. Pagan's bat is better than Gwynn's. Of course Weeks and Patterson are the main parts of the deal so how you view them is going to determine which package you think is better (although Wuertz should factor in as well).

The main value in that trade is weeks and the reds already have Phillips breaking out. Gwynn is a 4th OF and Wise is a fine 6th inning guy, but I don't get it. Hurry Jim, call Krivisky right now and offer him Pagan, Ohman, and DeRosa. Eh, we would find a place for Weeks and Phillips to play. I don't know where, but we would. I don't care what he is hitting htis year, Weeks has a boat load of potential and I would love to have him. If you think you can do better, lets hear an offer. I have an idea...play one of them at third!!! I wonder what E.E. did in previous life that was so bad that God made him be in the Reds organization. Now THAT'S a good question. I have no idea what the hell we are doing with him. It's like we are trying to mess him up. Part of me hopes we trade him for his own good, even though he is my favorite Red. Although that didn't work out too well for Wily Mo. In regards to the trade proposal, it just doesnt make sense to me. I would think they would be going after young starters....or 17 relievers. There was just no room for Wily Mo. We've been giving some of Edwin's playing time to Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper. Doesn't make any sense. Yeah, but unfortunately then Krivsky turned around and traded Kearns. Who was yet another player that was handled horribly. Ugh, that organization disgusts me. You should make a big sign and take it to a game. Have it read "Norris Freakin' Hopper?!?!?" We'll see how the screw up Bailey, Bruce, and Votto next...can't wait. You must have missed it, he already screwed up Bailey. He's gotten rocked his first two starts back in AAA. He was never ready to begin with, and shouldn't have been called up. I'm sure he won't like Votto and Bruce because "they aren't scrappy and strike out too much". Ohh, I've noticed on Bailey, but I just think that is a bad couple of starts. I would have done the same to keep him throwing in games over the ASB. Now there for sure is a case to be made that he should have never been called up to begin with. While he was pitching decently this year before the call up, he definitely wasn't at his best. The smart baseball move is to put a guy like that in a posititon to succeed (especially when your season is basically over), not throw him to the wolves. And the smart business decision is to not start his service time clock. Its kinda funny how a team winds up with so many players who are so ideologically opposed to what the management values. Especially when the management is a bunch of idiots. Man when they signed Eric Milton I nearly peed myself. Yeah, hes the answer in the Great American Smallpark!!!!!

You are somehow wrong on both sides. Dunn is about a billion times more valuable than you're giving him credit for. Murton, EPatt, Wuertz >> Weeks, Gwynn, Wise. And if we were able to get him for an equivalency of Weeks, Gwynn, Wise(think EPatt, Pagan, Petrick) we should fall over ourselves to do it. You overrate you're own prospects. Then so does BP, here are their MORPs over the next 5 years Patterson =71.45M Pagan=25.475 Petrick=NA (Wuertz is 11.1M) Weeks=49.9M Wise=3M Gwynn=NA (but hes a 4th OF, no better than Pagan)

The main value in that trade is weeks and the reds already have Phillips breaking out. Gwynn is a 4th OF and Wise is a fine 6th inning guy, but I don't get it. Hurry Jim, call Krivisky right now and offer him Pagan, Ohman, and DeRosa. Eh, we would find a place for Weeks and Phillips to play. I don't know where, but we would. I don't care what he is hitting htis year, Weeks has a boat load of potential and I would love to have him. If you think you can do better, lets hear an offer. I have an idea...play one of them at third!!! I wonder what E.E. did in previous life that was so bad that God made him be in the Reds organization. Now THAT'S a good question. I have no idea what the hell we are doing with him. It's like we are trying to mess him up. Part of me hopes we trade him for his own good, even though he is my favorite Red. Although that didn't work out too well for Wily Mo. In regards to the trade proposal, it just doesnt make sense to me. I would think they would be going after young starters....or 17 relievers. There was just no room for Wily Mo. We've been giving some of Edwin's playing time to Ryan Freel and Norris Hopper. Doesn't make any sense. Yeah, but unfortunately then Krivsky turned around and traded Kearns. Who was yet another player that was handled horribly. Ugh, that organization disgusts me. You should make a big sign and take it to a game. Have it read "Norris Freakin' Hopper?!?!?" We'll see how the screw up Bailey, Bruce, and Votto next...can't wait.

NICE

The main value in that trade is weeks and the reds already have Phillips breaking out. Gwynn is a 4th OF and Wise is a fine 6th inning guy, but I don't get it. Hurry Jim, call Krivisky right now and offer him Pagan, Ohman, and DeRosa. Eh, we would find a place for Weeks and Phillips to play. I don't know where, but we would. I don't care what he is hitting htis year, Weeks has a boat load of potential and I would love to have him. If you think you can do better, lets hear an offer. I have an idea...play one of them at third!!! I wonder what E.E. did in previous life that was so bad that God made him be in the Reds organization. Now THAT'S a good question. I have no idea what the hell we are doing with him. It's like we are trying to mess him up. Part of me hopes we trade him for his own good, even though he is my favorite Red. Although that didn't work out too well for Wily Mo. In regards to the trade proposal, it just doesnt make sense to me. I would think they would be going after young starters....or 17 relievers.

The main value in that trade is weeks and the reds already have Phillips breaking out. Gwynn is a 4th OF and Wise is a fine 6th inning guy, but I don't get it. Hurry Jim, call Krivisky right now and offer him Pagan, Ohman, and DeRosa. Eh, we would find a place for Weeks and Phillips to play. I don't know where, but we would. I don't care what he is hitting htis year, Weeks has a boat load of potential and I would love to have him. If you think you can do better, lets hear an offer. I have an idea...play one of them at third!!! I wonder what E.E. did in previous life that was so bad that God made him be in the Reds organization.

I think it was you and I that debated this earlier in the season (not gonna go look for the thread but nonetheless) and I had said that while his BABIP was insanely high at that time (i wanna say around .420) I didn't think it would drop too much. And I still don't think it will. Guys are afraid of challenging him in the only place he seems to have power (inside) and seem to be content on throwing to the outer half (hence Derrek's propensity to hit the ball the other way and in the gaps. Who knows how far his BABIP will fall but I would be willing to bet it won't fall nearly as much as you suspect. I also wanna say sorry it wasn't you who I argued this point with before. I found the thread and he had a .440 BABIP at the time. I still think it stays above .350 pretty easily because of how they have pitched him. So if Lee had a 440 BABIP while you were arguing in the other thread and now hes at 406, isn't that the definition of regression toward the mean. Sure, he can finish at 350 and it won't be unreasonably out of line with expectations, but that would call for continued significant regression. Just for my curiousity, but how many full time players have finished with a BABIP over 400 in recent years?

I respectfully disagree. And I would add that several who responded negatively initially later changed their opinion to the majority neutral (meh, whatever, etc). Since I don't generally read the Poll forum, did they take a poll on the trade? Coming from the "slammer" perspective, I can validate this. As soon as it came out that the cubs were only going to pay 900K as opposed to 3.5ish, it became pretty "meh". I think it also was more of a knee jerk reaction to the realization that Soto wouldn't be given a chance this year, which we would have liked to have seen considering we believed he could reasonably do a better job than Bowen, Hill, or Kendall for the remainder of the year and cost us nothing. Couple that with remaining bitterness over getting rid of Barrett and yeah we probably initially overreacted to a trade that is fairly neutral and insignificant. What that has to do with this thread, I know not.

The main value in that trade is weeks and the reds already have Phillips breaking out. Gwynn is a 4th OF and Wise is a fine 6th inning guy, but I don't get it. Hurry Jim, call Krivisky right now and offer him Pagan, Ohman, and DeRosa.

I'd love to have Greinke, but KC asked for Loney or Kemp when the Dodgers inquired about Dotel. Our two best (tradable) position prospects are Pie and Patterson. Not gonna happen.

He's a reliever now? I thought he a guy with ace potential at one point? He still does, but the Royals are idiots. Yes, please tell us about your inside knowledge of the Greinke situation and how the Royals are "idiots" in the matter. I'm not sure what I said that hurt your feelings, but it's a safe assumption that one of the more talented pitchers drafted in recent memory still has that talent at 23 given he's had no major surgeries. It's also a safe assumption that putting a pitcher with that much talent in the bullpen is idiotic. Sorry for running over your cat. No, what's idiotic is that you feel you have the knowledge to pass judgment on a situation that you have exactly zero familiarity with. Zack has social anxiety disorder, and loses focus--badly--in extended outings. It is in his best interest to pitch in short stints, hence the move to the bullpen. And he has responded. Just because the kid could once dial it up to 100 mph does not mean he must be a starting pitcher. For reference, see Harrington, Matt and Griffin, Colt as two recent examples. Now, would I trade for Greinke as a relief prospect? Probably not, because he does not fill a pressing need for the Cubs right now, and the unpredictability of Zack's situation is not worth the risk given our playoff chances. KC is a good place for him for now. Greinke started 7 games this year. He was dominant in his first two starts giving up 1 run in each Third start he gave up 4 runs in 2/3rds of an inning. Fourth start he was not great giving up 4 runs in 5 innings, 3 of them coming in the last 2 innings Dominant in the fifth start not allowing a run. Bombed in his 6th start giving up 6 runs in 5 innings, 5 of those runs came in the first 2 innings (4 of them in the 1st) Bombed again in his last start giving up 6 run in 4 innings, all 6 of those runs game in the 2nd inning. Soooo, that means in his 7 starts he only fell apart later in the game in one of them. So, how again has he lost focus in extended outings?

not much. i think we're actually saving money. i think hendry made a good deal. Do you have a source on that? I haven't seen an article saying the A's sent the Cubs money, but I haven't looked at many articles on the trade lately. The # I've heard most is that we are going to be paying 900K for Kendall. Don't know of any definitive links though.

I have to admit, I do find that stat encouraging, because I am having a hard time explaining his two absolutely horrid months this year after being a very good (for average) and patient hitter for his entire career. I guess it could be easily explained in his age, but he was very good at not making outs just last year. I'd like to see what his OBP is over that same span. Yet in July, Kendall's line is 229/229/286 (one K). So if we've been looking at him the last two weeks we have been enamoured with his ability to put the ball in play weakly and not walk. Yup, that sounds about right. Ugh. How many games is that, though? I'm guessing like 11-13? Not sure on the amount of games, but it's 35 at bats. 10 games.

Who is John Galt?

I have to admit, I do find that stat encouraging, because I am having a hard time explaining his two absolutely horrid months this year after being a very good (for average) and patient hitter for his entire career. I guess it could be easily explained in his age, but he was very good at not making outs just last year. I'd like to see what his OBP is over that same span. Yet in July, Kendall's line is 229/229/286 (one K). So if we've been looking at him the last two weeks we have been enamoured with his ability to put the ball in play weakly and not walk. Yup, that sounds about right.

While that is a unique characteristic of Oakland, then it would be within reason to expect his FB% to be high last year too. However, last year was right inline with his career. He has 104 FBs as opposed to 130 all of last year and right around 150 the previous years. I don't know anywhere that tracks pop fouls, but that'd have to be an awful lot of pop fouls this year over last to account for the disparity. Also, I wonder if those would be counted as infield fly balls (most of the extended foul territory is in the IF and rarely do corner OFs make it all the way past the line to make foul catches). Hes right inline with his career on that stat. Has anyone mentioned that Gerald Perry (Kendall's hitting coach last year), was heavily in favor of the trade. Maybe Perry has already pinpointed something that Kendall is not doing or believes he can easily get Kendall turned around? I haven't read many of the articles to see if there are quotes from Perry, but word is that this is a Gary Hughes acquisition. I imagine though that being the hitting coach and working with Kendall last year, Perry had a pretty decent say in the matter, so if Perry wasn't behind it, thge trade probably wouldn't have happened. Actually, if Perry wasn't behind it, Hughes most likely wouldn't have even been scouting Kendall. From today's Suntimes: http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/cubs/470970,CST-SPT-cub17.article I wonder how long Hughes had been scouting Kendall. Bruce, have any idea? Is that what the three days of discussions is referencing?

While that is a unique characteristic of Oakland, then it would be within reason to expect his FB% to be high last year too. However, last year was right inline with his career. He has 104 FBs as opposed to 130 all of last year and right around 150 the previous years. I don't know anywhere that tracks pop fouls, but that'd have to be an awful lot of pop fouls this year over last to account for the disparity. Also, I wonder if those would be counted as infield fly balls (most of the extended foul territory is in the IF and rarely do corner OFs make it all the way past the line to make foul catches). Hes right inline with his career on that stat. Has anyone mentioned that Gerald Perry (Kendall's hitting coach last year), was heavily in favor of the trade. Maybe Perry has already pinpointed something that Kendall is not doing or believes he can easily get Kendall turned around? I haven't read many of the articles to see if there are quotes from Perry, but word is that this is a Gary Hughes acquisition. I imagine though that being the hitting coach and working with Kendall last year, Perry had a pretty decent say in the matter, so if Perry wasn't behind it, thge trade probably wouldn't have happened. Actually, if Perry wasn't behind it, Hughes most likely wouldn't have even been scouting Kendall. I think a likely scenerio is that Perry recommended Kendall based on his familiarity with Jason from last year, so Hendry sent Hughes to scout him. Hughes then presented a favorable report, so Hendry pulled the trigger. Exactly.