Jazz

I think that it is somewhat unfair to critczise Pierre for his caught stealings subtracted from his OBP stat, as when you think about it, his primary goal will be to get to first base, as having Walker, Lee, Ramirez, and hopefully another big bat behind them coming up in the order, runs will follow. We suffered a great deal from seeing the Patterson/Perez/Macias/Lawton leading off debacle, now with a legitmate mainstay at the top of the order who can get on base at least at a .350 clip, we will see more RBI chances for the middle of the order thus leading to more runs. I think we wont see Pierre attempt to steal a base 80 times a season, with his deplorable stolen base ratio, it would be taking a step backward in terms of getting people on base, but we do have a big 1st to 3rd threat on hits from the players behind him.

I agree, but everything I have heard is that the Phillies want a front end SP, the Cubs aren't going to give them Prior or Z. I would trade Patterson to the Nats for Wilkerson, and throw Williams, Hill, Pinto and spare parts at the Reds for Dunn. This is where a three way deal with the A's comes in. Barry Zito I think would be roughly what the Phillies are looking for. What are the A's looking for? A first baseman/designated hitter type? Brandon Sing would be helpful, perhaps. I'm sure they wouldn't say no to some young pitching like Jerome Williams. Throw in maybe Pinto. What are we thinking? does: Cubs get: Abreu Phillies get: Zito A's get: Sing, Michaels, and Williams sound right?

Olney has a tidbit about the cubs in the discussion of zito: Where does Zito land? The Dodgers have good prospects to offer, and so does Texas; the Rangers want Zito, and Beane worries much less than other general managers about dealing within his division. The Yankees don't have the kind of prospects needed to get Zito right now; the Red Sox do. St. Louis could make a play. The Cubs have some talent to deal, if they wanted to make a play.

I think the Cobs could be that close, but Huff probably isn't one of those players. but we are, but those players arent huff and pierre theyre michaels and abreu ;)

[-X Well, South Carolinians should be jealous of their northern counterparts, since NC is the greatest state in the nation (yes, I've spent nearly all of my life in Asheville, North Carolina). All right.... let's not be stirring up any wars between the Carolinians, as I'm on my way to SC even as we speak !! i always love some NC bashing :)

oh plz no, bret boone would find his stroke again and have another 2001 like season.

I was not aware of that, try this on for size: Cubs get: Abreu (13M), Gonzalez(11.5M) + Cash from Dbacks & Phillies Phillies get: Tracy (400k) + Cubs Pitching Prospect Dbacks get: Hill (300k), and Williams (500k) Since the cubs would be taking 24.5 mil in salary, the dbacks & phillies would need to cough up about 5-10 mil combined to make this feasable, which would be possible by cubs trading more prospects. With these 2 bats, we could slide cedeno at SS, Walker at 2B (unless you can upgrade with Castillo), and sign/trade Bradley for CF (depending on the situation). Then Ship Murton to somewhere like Oakland for Zito, along with another pitching prospect. 2B Walker RF Abreu 1B Lee 3B Ramirez LF Gonzalez CF Bradley SS Cedeno C Barrett That lineup could score some runs. AZ wants to gut their team?? no but getting out of the 11.5 mil contract of gonzalez would help alot in signing some FA pitching, Tracy and Gonzalez currently block their 2 best prospects Quentin and Jackson.

I was not aware of that, try this on for size: Cubs get: Abreu (13M), Gonzalez(11.5M) + Cash from Dbacks & Phillies Phillies get: Tracy (400k) + Cubs Pitching Prospect Dbacks get: Hill (300k), and Williams (500k) Since the cubs would be taking 24.5 mil in salary, the dbacks & phillies would need to cough up about 5-10 mil combined to make this feasable, which would be possible by cubs trading more prospects. With these 2 bats, we could slide cedeno at SS, Walker at 2B (unless you can upgrade with Castillo), and sign/trade Bradley for CF (depending on the situation). Then Ship Murton to somewhere like Oakland for Zito, along with another pitching prospect. 2B Walker RF Abreu 1B Lee 3B Ramirez LF Gonzalez CF Bradley SS Cedeno C Barrett That lineup could score some runs.

Do you think the Delgado trade or Thome trade can give us any new insight as to what it might take to land Abreu in terms of players and money? Hoops, you have to ask yourself how the Phillies are going to 'look at' the 25M they sent to Chicago. What percentage of that counts towards the 06 payroll that they're budgeting for? Secondly, it's pretty obvious that either Abreu or Lofton will be traded, and that brings up the second question of timing. Assuming neither have signed by the beginning of the winter meetings in early December, do you forget Furcal and go all out for Abreu assuming he's made available? What would it take to acquire Abreu? Obviously not another outfielder, so Corey is out of that equation, which brings up question number 3 - Corey hasn't been rumored in the Marlins trade, and if he doesn't have a spot in Philly in a possible Abreu trade.......what are we going to do with him? I think the trades do give us insight as to what it is going to take to get Abreu. The question is whether or not the Cubs are willing to give that up. Of course, I don't see Philly eating any of Abreu's contract (they ate too much of Thome's and had an ample replacement in the wings), so I don't think it will take an established ML'er and 2 top prospects. I think we're looking close to the Delgado deal of 2 top 10 prospects and 1 midlevel prospect. Personally, I think it would take Pie, Hill, and probably a throw in arm they can put in the pen (Wellemeyer). But I still think the best deal for Philly and the Cubs would be to get a 3rd team involved. My proposed deal: Cubs get: Abreu Phillies get: Jerome Williams, Hank Blalock Texas gets: David Bell, Padilla, Pie (cash from Phillies) Hendry would never let this deal happen, as Texas would be getting away with murder here. Blalock's away averages at home: .243/.300/.407. Obviosly since he got alot of hype from the All Star Game, his stock would be high but Im not sure he constitutes that kind of return. Id look somewhere else for a 3rd wheel team, try this: Cubs get: Abreu, Michaels Phillies get: Mueller, Hill, and Williams Red Sox get: Patterson, Harvey, and Ohman/Novoa Michaels has no room with the addition of Rowand, so he wil prby be ousted somewhere, in this deal, you can switch Michaels going to the Red Sox as well and save trading Patterson and Harvey, but id take the cost to get him as well. The Phillies get one of the top 10 3B's in the MLB, a suitable option for this year, as well as 2 fillers for their rotation, and cut costs enough to go after FA pitching. The red sox makeout with a good haul just from Mueller, and all should work out financially in this deal with the cubs eating all of Abreu's contract.

wat i dont understand is that why Hendry isnt jumping all over the chance to get the Top OPS for an OF in the league, especially when prospect wise they wouldnt have to pay that much as we would be taking the bulk of the contract.

well murton proved himself last year that he deserves the starting role from the get-go, and it should be inexsuable for dusty to let anyone else start there coming off the bench. No B/S platoon crap.

and if so is it neccessarily a good one. Im really not liking his targets right now throwing 20 mil over 2 yrs at 2 relievers that could definately flop like remmy and hawkins did, as well as targeting only furcal as the only legit offensive threat on his radar, along the likes of mench, and jaque jones? Where are we headed?

hmm, these workings seem indicative of a FLASH CHAT! maybe :)?

This is very puzzling. Giles is figuring way below our estimates which topped 50 mil in some cases, 3 yrs for 35 mil or even less would be a STEAL, and hendry is out spending that 50 mil we have this offseason away on bob howry and scott eyre, gotta love them cobs.

i only like these 2 deals if: Hendry still has it in mind to sure up the offense. we still have glaring holes at CF, RF, and SS. That being said, with these signing, we could see a number of moves involving our former bullpen pitchers as trading chips to acquire offense/starting pitching. I think a todd walker for a bullpen pitcher like romero has just become redundant, so we could definately use them in one of the many proposed FLA trades for Castillo/Pierre

After 2008 when he's a free agent most likely. He'll probably ask every offseason to be posted until then, and the Lions probably will keep saying no. I imagine hell get quite the contract come that time since hell be 27/28, and entering his prime. till then, any other overseas players we could see make the jump?

anyword on when well see Daitsuke make the jump?

WHere in the heck would you play Thome? He can only play 1st or are you planning on dumping the younger and better Lee after the spectacular year he just had? I think hes saying that Minnesota would acquire Thome, and we would set ourselves up to maybe take on Bobby Abreu ,or Jason Michaels, and a reliever from Minnesota in a deal like that.

Very interesting assessment, since you are very well correct, Hendry loves to sign Role Players (whether they be productive or not), and trade for impact ones. I think Hendry cannot get away with not signing a starting SS though, as we would never see the end to the Neifi Perez Show. With trades, i think that we could se a number of things unfold. Cubs get: Lowe, Bradley, Castillo, Dodgers get: Lowell, and Patterson Marlins get: Nolasco, Walker, Sing, and Hairston Marlins makeout way ahead monetarily, giving them reason enough to trade Castillo as they get a not that significant dropoff in Walker. They also get 2 good prospects in Sing, and Nolasco, as well as a bench staple in Hairston. Dodgers lose Bradley (who they have been quoted as being tradeable for nothing), and get 2 players who can start at 3B, and CF. They also lose Lowe's contract which make things easier to take on Lowell's contract this year. then Cubs get: Dunn, Griffey Jr. and Freel Reds get: Lowe, Murton, Hill, and Mitre The reds shed Griffey's contract, as well as get a decent haul for trading Dunn. 3 MLB ready starters, and an MLB ready LF. Cubs would Sign: Rafael Furcal, Bob Howry, and Mark Sweeney SS Furcal (10M) 2B Castillo (5M) 1B Lee (8.7M) LF Dunn (7M) 3B Ramirez (10.5M) CF Griffey Jr. (12M) RF Bradley (3M) C Barrett (3M) SP1. Prior (4M) SP2. Zambrano (5M) SP3. Wood (11M) SP4. Maddux (9M) SP5. Williams (400k) RP Rusch (3M) RP Williams (400k) RP Wuertz (400k) RP Novoa (300k) RP Ohman (300k) RP Howry (3M) RP Dempster (5M) Reserves C Blanco (1.2M) IF Perez (2.5M) IF Theriot (300k) OF Sweeney (1M) OF Freel (500k) ----------------------- 105Mil The only thing that would be bad about this team would be the amount of long term contracts on it/would be coming Furcal (until 08/09) Lee (could be resigned until 2010, 2011) Dunn (could be resigned until 2009-2011) Ramirez (until 09') Griffey Jr. (until 08') Dempster (until 08') This could heavily conflict with keeping the Zambrano/Prior tandem around longterm. However, if the tribune keeps increasing payroll (which it should as this team should have no problem winning games), then we could see a much bigger payroll by the time zambrano and prior need to be resigned. Maybe 20-30% bigger. Edit: Im not very sure about arb estimates, corrections would be appreciated

I still think that we could see a trade come out of nowhere since Hendry is infamous for such a transaction, one in which we acquire Castillo, and Bradley. SS Furcal 2B Castillo 1B Lee 3B Ramirez CF Bradley RF Jones/Wilson LF Murton C Barrett That is about a good a lineup as i can optimisticly come up with even though dealing with that Hendry wont sign Giles sadly, and that he will pursue speed and defense. I really like Furcal, Castillo, and Lee in the infield though, with ramirez' improving D at 3rd.

I think Howry has a good chance of happening but a trade for Betancourt or someone of that caliber would seem more hendry esque.

all that sounds nice, but id rather not go with the pen you listed and try to squeeze money out of some of the positions youve listed. A little more organized view of what your saying C: Michael Barrett - 3 Mil 1B: Derrek Lee - 8.7 Mil 2B: Todd Walker - 2.5 Mil SS: 3B: Aramis Ramirez - 10.5 Mil LF: Matt Murton - 300k CF: RF: SP: Mark Prior - 3 Mil SP: Kerry Wood - 11 Mil SP: Greg Maddux - 9 Mil SP: Carlos Zambrano - 5.5 Mil SP: Pen RP: Glendon Rusch - 3 Mil RP: Scott Williamson - 500k RP: Michael Wuertz - 400k RP: Robert Novoa - 400k RP: Will Ohman - 400k RP: Rich Hill - 300k RP: Ryan Dempster - 5 Mil Bench C: Henry Blanco - 1.5 Mil IF: Ronny Cedeno - 300k IF: - 1.5 Mil OF: - 1.5 Mil OF: Hairston - 2.5 Mil Total (23 Players) : 70.1 Mil Total Left to Spend: 30-35 Mil So yes, we could field a lineup with 30 mil spread out to those 3 positions, but id rather spend a few more mil on the bullpen by signing a howry type player. Then trade some of our young arms, and trading chips (walker, cedeno, murton, etc..) for a starting pitcher/CF, sign Giles (for w/e it takes), sign furcal, and maybe ice the cake by trading for luis castillo? :) sound good to me.

i like options 3 and 4 because of the reasons you stated. Weird that we have been on this position topic for about 12 pages of thread, lets get to the next topic plz :)

wat happened to this thread?

I also wouldnt be suprised to see if Griffey's contract would be shopped around to teams like the yankees, and angels, without expecting much in return. If the cardinals get into negotiations with the Reds about Dunn, the cubs have to top every offer, even if it means getting both Dunn AND Giles :), just out of blocking the cardinals from acquiring them.