Illini Iceman

I say screw both of them and give it Dontrelle Willis.

I don't feel venomous at all when I think of this move, but I do think the guys we got aren't worth wasting bandwith to analyze their "talents". The Braves know their business, and these guys were practically given away. If they ever make it to the majors this will be a fleecing of the highest order. Maybe you should just make a list of the things you feel are worthy of posting about so everyone else here does not waste bandwidth with the things they are interested in but do not meet your standards. My guess is that the list would be something like this: 1) Dusty sucks - fire him 2) Macias sucks - DFA him 3) Neifi sucks - DFA him 4) Hendry is an idiot We all know that never in the history of MLB has a team traded away low level prospects at the deadline for a veteran and had those prospects turn into anything useful.

The Lawton trade really made no sense considering the consensus on this forum already was that we had no chance. AT the same time we had Murton doing good when he played for us. Hendry's move this year have been TERRIBLE!! Bay for Bartosh. Oh God that was bad. I would be worried if Hendry gave up on the season based on the consensus on a Cubs forum. His job is to keep trying to improve the team until it is out of contention and that is what he did. This team has some major 40 man roster decisions during the offseason so this worked out fine. In the end they cleared a 40 man roster spot of someone clearly not in their long term plans (Dubois) and added a younger prospect that does not need to be protected this year. Hendry was able to do that while also having Lawton for a while in a effort to get to the playoffs. I don't see how anyone can call Bay for Bartosh TERRIBLE until first of all Bay actually makes a big league roster and contributes and secondly we see what Bartosh winds up doing. He is still pretty young and could turn into a servicable LOOGY. At this point Bartosh has better odds of being a serviceable MLB pitcher than Bay just based on their level of development. Yes, Bay for Bartosh was indeed terrible. Bay was a good prospect and has been doing good in the minors for the Indians. At the very least you could have got a better player than Bartosh who sucked for us when he played here and chances are will be a non factor. That 4.76 ERA in AA is awesome. Even in the Cubs injury depleted pitching system he would be a mid to low level prospect.

The Lawton trade really made no sense considering the consensus on this forum already was that we had no chance. AT the same time we had Murton doing good when he played for us. Hendry's move this year have been TERRIBLE!! Bay for Bartosh. Oh God that was bad. I would be worried if Hendry gave up on the season based on the consensus on a Cubs forum. His job is to keep trying to improve the team until it is out of contention and that is what he did. This team has some major 40 man roster decisions during the offseason so this worked out fine. In the end they cleared a 40 man roster spot of someone clearly not in their long term plans (Dubois) and added a younger prospect that does not need to be protected this year. Hendry was able to do that while also having Lawton for a while in a effort to get to the playoffs. I don't see how anyone can call Bay for Bartosh TERRIBLE until first of all Bay actually makes a big league roster and contributes and secondly we see what Bartosh winds up doing. He is still pretty young and could turn into a servicable LOOGY. At this point Bartosh has better odds of being a serviceable MLB pitcher than Bay just based on their level of development.

](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) ](*,) Once again, people putting words in Baker's mouth just to find more reasons to criticize him. Nowhere in his quote does he say anything about not playing the kids. That editorial comment is made by whoever wrote the article. Baker only said it is hard to EVALUATE them based on their performance in September. I agree with that - if Murton gets a lot of playing time in September and does well I still won't feel comfortable with counting on him as the starting LF in 2006.

Hill played, he sucked, and now he is playing in AAA again where he belongs.

Erik, I think you are being too generous. I don't think he's in a Cub uniform after the 2005 season. I have it on good authority that Hendry will do everything he can to trade Patterson during the offseason, low value or not. Hendry is absolutely pissed off at Corey's play and attitude since he has returned. And, seeing 5 pitches in 4 at bats last night was just the icing on the cake. Although he probably won't play with the major league team this year, I get the strong sense that the Felix Pie in CF era is set to start in March. Hoops Whether or not Patterson is on the team next year, Pie needs to be in AAA. Looks like we're doomed to see the same mistakes the organization made with Patterson. By the end of this year Pie will probably have almost 1500 minor league AB's, which I believe is almost double what Patterson had. I don't see how the Cubs could be accused of doing the "same" thing they did with Patterson. Pujols only had about 500 minor league AB's. Miguel Cabrera had about 1400 minor league AB's. If the guy is as good as everyone says then get him up here and don't waste a year in AAA. Patterson's inability to develop at the MLB level should not force the Cubs to keep every prospect in the minors longer. Each guy is different, and Pie might use the promotion as a catalyst to improve at a quicker pace than he would at AAA. If he doesn't, you can always send him back down to work on his game.

I don't understand what the big uproar is about. The reporter asked him if he was concerned because Murton did not hit for more power and Dusty essentialy said: 1) He is young and eventually may develop more power but for now he is more of a line drive opposite field hitter and 2) There is nothing wrong with that type of hitter because the goal is to score runs and it doesn't have to be with HR's. I don't know who could argue with either of these two points, but whenever Baker says something people have a tendency to twist it around so that it supports their hate for him. Lawton is going to get a bulk of the playing time since Hendry brought him because he thinks it will give the Cubs an offensive lift, so sendng Murton down makes the most sense. You could argue that the right move was just to play Murton every day, but now that the move has been made to get Lawton it does not make sense to keep Murton on the bench and to DFA a guy like Holly who is historically a good PH'er.

Hendry traded for Lawton so that he could play every day in LF while the Cubs try to get back in contention. At 4.5 games back Hendry needs to stick with the plan and hope it pans out. If the Cubs go on another losing streak and fall hopelessly out of it by September 1st Murton will be back up and will get plenty of playing time. Unlike a lot of fans Hendry is not ready to throw in the towel. With that in mind it does not significantly improve the team to have Murton up right now because he is going to get few starts over Lawton and inexperienced players generally are not very effective late inning PH options.

With the way he has hit in the minors combined with the hype surrounding him I don't see any way he is not in their starting lineup next year. You can probably also pencil in Delmon Young. However, they will probably try to put Upton at third because Piniella is an old school guy that insists on good defense up the middle. C - Hall SS - Lugo 1B - Huff 2B - Cantu 3B - Upton LF - Crawford CF - Baldelli RF - Young DF - Gomes Probably not enough pitching to compete for the playoffs, but with that lineup teams are not going to be looking forward to playing them quite so much.

Rusch and Williams will have to be great for the Cubs to have a chance. The bullpen looks like it will be pretty good with the addition of Williamson and Wood. CPatt will also need to make a big turnaround, but overall the offense will probably still be inconsistent so to make a big run the starting pitching will have to be lights out.

That would be really nice. He has more of a future than Rusch. Welly should start. If they are going to start Welly over anyone it should be Williams, not Rusch. The Cubs need that game tomorrow, and Rusch has been pretty good in the starting role over the last couple years. If they fall hopelessly out of it then it might be worth considering Welly or Mitre to take some turns in the rotation.

I do share your optimism, but I don't think 2/3 is enough. We'd only gain one game on them... while 5.5 out with that many left to play isn't a horrible situation, it's not all that much better than where we're at now... So, how about we just get that sweep you were talking about?? :wink: Needs to be a sweep in order for me to even start getting my hopes up again.

DFA that useless Macias

The combination of low salary, current effectiveness and enormous upside makes Prior untouchable IMO. The way the Cubs have struggled so much this year to fill the 5th starter hole shows how hard it is to get a solid starting pitcher so it makes no sense to trade one they already have in place. I really hope that Guzman can get healthy and have a good winter and ST and that Wood can have successful surgery to clean out his shoulder. The rotation of Prior, Zambrano, Wood, Guzman and Maddux would be deadly if the stars can even align and get them all through a complete season intact. Combining that with a bullpen of Dempster, Williamson, Novoa, Wuertz, Ohman and LOOGY to be named later would make for very nice pitching staff and save plenty of budget to invest in an upgraded offense.

I know I really enjoyed the energy, life and desire of Hill today while watching him get torched. You prefer watching seasoned veterans getting torched? The point is that the excitement of youth wears off quickly when they are overmatched. I prefer the Cubs put the best team possible on the field. Sorry, but Walker is WAY better than Fontenot, Barrett is WAY better than Soto and Pie is just coming off an injury and is nowhere near MLB form. Murton in LF and Hill or Mitre in the rotation makes sense because those are major league ready players in positions where the team has weaknesses. The rest is just ridiculous.

I know I really enjoyed the energy, life and desire of Hill today while watching him get torched.

Here's an idea, why don't we improve the team by getting more good players instead of by getting rid of the few good ones we have?

He's finished. Boston is just his last gasp before retirement.

I like Gaetti because of that great HR in the one game playoff in '98 but also because of his nickname "The Rat". I heard he got it because you can get "cheese" past "The Rat". Classic. :lol:

Friggin' Macias and his .296 average are killing this team! Why is he even on the roster?

I am pretty sure that the papers will say he left with a tight back but I am not sure what that will prove.

Sorry, but he's not "telling the truth." Z has a history of doing immature things that hurt the team. If he did quit on the team today than that qualifies as another. Don't see any other way around it. Yeah, a history that includes NOTHING FROM 2005. NOTHING. His ejection on Opening Day was after he was taken out of the game. Zambrano has done NOTHING this year to hurt this team. First of all, pardon me if I am not overly impressed by going almost going a whole season without doing anything. However, I thought I remembered him throwing at someone earlier this year and being lucky not to get a suspension. If it turns out that he did not quit then I retract the comment. But from what I have seen it does not look good.

Sorry, but he's not "telling the truth." Z has a history of doing immature things that hurt the team. If he did quit on the team today then that qualifies as another. Don't see any other way around it.

I don't hate Z. He's just a baby IMO. You're right in that he has been better this year. obviously you do, because you're bringing up stuff that's way in the past. how is he a baby? what has he done this year to warrant being called that, aside from the umpire incident in arizona? He's bitter b/c Z shuts down the Cards every chance he gets! He has nothing to be bitter about. The Cards will have two straight division championships after this year. He is telling the truth, sorry if it hurts sometimes.