Illini Iceman

I would do it straight up for CPatt. Anything much more than that and the Yanks can keep him.

Agreed - with Prior, Wood, Zambrano, Maddux, Williams, Rusch, Hill, Mitre, Guzman and possibly Pinto the Cubs have enough options for SP. The offense is where the upgrade is required. Hendry needs to find a way to make a deal for a stud RF along the lines Abreu or Dunn because personally I don't think Giles will come here unless the Cubs overpay in dollars and years and that is not Hendry's MO.

I believe that the Cubs have a club option for 2007 and unless he has an awful season or another major injury I can't see them not exercising the option. No way they let a guy that talented walk.

Not unless you want to give up Pie, Williams and Hill. And that might not even be enough. Who cares. We gave up Garland, Willis, Joe Carter and I'm sure many others. Who did we get in return? My point. If we are going to give up top prospects, at least get an All Star in return. Manny would be a huge boost to the offense. Prospects are just that, prospects. Use them to your advantage. Dont get me wrong, i would not make a habit of doing this, I dont want this to be like the Yankee farm system, but this is Manny. I want to win, and the only way to do that is to take some chances. I agree with your sentiment but personally I would rather they do it to try to get Abreu or Dunn. Manny's defense, personality quirks and HUGE salary make me a little more wary of selling the farm.

Rusch has been a real good arm to have on the staff the last couple years. He gives you a dependable 5th starter or spot starter if needed because of injury. Let's face it, the Cubs have some starters that history shows are likely to get injured at some point in the season. $3M is not a huge number, especially considering that they have a lot of low cost younger pitchers that keep the total staff payroll very respectable. IMO by the end of the offseason it will look pretty cheap. I read in TSN that some GM's think that a guy like Loaiza will get $6M a year in this free agent class. If the Cubs go with a starting staff of Zambrano, Wood, Prior, Maddux and Williams I feel much better with Rusch as the next in line in case of any injuries rather than Mitre or Hill. Hopefully Hendry can trade Williams, Hill or Mitre as part of a package to upgrade RF. Having Rusch signed will make him much more comfortable doing that because of the pitching depth on the roster.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=citadel-2_458676_260&prov=citadel&type=story noice! Thank God they were able to get Phil Norton re-signed!

i dont see hendry trading pie for anyone. perhaps the phillies would take harvey, sing, pinto & hill. Hendry may just be playing up Pie's value in the press so he can get more for him if decides to include him in a trade. The only reason I can see that the Phillies would want to trade Abreu is if they decide they want to upgrade pitching and need to free up salary to go after a guy like Millwood or Burnett. To get a player of that caliber I would have no problem seeing the Cubs trade Williams, Hill, Pie and Pinto if necessary. With the added production in RF (and probably LF with Murton) they could gamble on giving CPatt another chance in CF. Mitre or Rusch could plug into the 5th spot in the rotation and probably either would produce at a pretty similar level to Williams.

At that cost and his age I would have to say no thanks. I would much rather they throw a lot of minor league talent at someone like the Reds for Dunn or Phillies for Abreu and then sign that player to a long term deal. Nothing against Giles, but it just seems like he is going to be overvalued due to the free agent class he is in.

Another thread turns into Giles discussion. :P

Whenever I see a comment like this I can't help but wonder what about him made people think he would be a good manager. I watched a lot of Cubs games when he was with the team and never really saw anything that particularly stood out about him as a leader or as a strategist. I suppose he could be as turn out to be a pretty darn good manager, but I just haven't seen evidence from his playing days or while coaching with the Yankees. FWIW, I do recall him not being a particularly selective hitter and popping up on a lot of first pitches.

The whole article can be read here: http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/4984978 If the Yankees offered ARod for Wood and Williams I think Hendry would have that deal done in a second. (I know, I know, assuming Wood waives the no trade clause)

The .340 was Murton. What I meant to say about Wilkerson is you might not get much better than that from him. I wouldn't pencil him in for a near 900 OPS. Things have been down in recent years, and while I love the patience and walk totals, I don't trust a guy who relies so heavily on the walk, while playing for Dusty. Make no mistake, I'd love to have him in center and leading off, moreso than Furcal actually. I was just talking about total OF production, and making a point that an OF of Murton/Wilkerson/???RF??? better have a very production RF in it. Murton/Wilkerson/Burnitz wouldn't cut it. Gotcha. I thought you were inferring that Wilkerson would be around those numbers, as well. While I wouldn't expect a .900 OPS out of him, I would expect something around .850 if he's healthy. His four OPS numbers are: .839, .844, .872, .756. The last was accumulated, again, while playing injured in a dreadful home environment (yes, I also know his road numbers were worse this year -- I consider that an anomoly). Hey, my offseason priorities still begin and end with paying Giles enough money to leave the west coast. If we had Murton, Wilky and Giles across the OF, I'd be okay with going with defense in the MIF and signing Furcal & playing Cedeno at 2B. Wow, you really have the expectation bar set high. If the Cubs get Giles and Wilkerson you are "okay" with them going with Furcal and Cedeno up the middle? That would only mean that the Cubs wind up with arguably the two top free agents on the market plus a high level CF via trade. I would be more than okay with that, I would be ecstatic.

This is my fear as well. Give him an award, Dusty will have even MORE motivation to use him, and he'll be around here as long as Dusty is. It could go the other way. Winning the Gold Golve might increase interest in him among other teams and put his salary demands above where Hendry is willing to go to sign him. I think if Hendry can get him for a bargain contract again he will consider bringing him back but I don't see any way he gets into a bidding war to re-sign Neifi.

Tim, I don't know if I agree that Hendry has a "lack of creativity." I think it is a difference in philosophy. Let me make one thing clear, first of all: Adding Vlad or Giles when they were free agents would have been a good move. At the same time, I think Hendry is gun-shy about signing guys to large/long term contracts. Would CHC have suddenly been a division winner in 04 or 05 if he had made those deals? I think the team was more fundamentally flawed than that. Giles and Guerrero are the kind of players to sign when you are trying to "maintain" a spot at the top of the "success cycle." For instance, Giles was acquired by the Padres at the end of 03 too late to have much effect. The following year they finished 87-75 and 3rd in their division. This year they may win their division, but that is more by "default" than anything else. While CHC is a better team than the Padres, I don't know that Giles would make that much difference. The main thing that went right for CHC in 03 was that they stayed relatively healthy (Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Clement all had 200+ IP/ Lofton played well in CF, Karros was inexplicably effective...) The last two years CHC has struggled with injuries to significant players with them missing great lengths of time. I certainly don't want to pardon Hendry for re-signing Perez (unless he believed that Perez would only be used to give Nomar a break every couple of months and as a "late innings defensive replacement"), or the re-signing of Jose Macias. Again, I feel the claim of being "uncreative" is unfair. He got Nomar and Murton from BOS for Justin Jones, Frank Beltran, KGonz, Brendan Harris. He was creative enough to get 2 young pitchers for LaTroy Hawkins. While Guerrero and Giles would be wonderful members of the team, I don't know that they would have been worth the extra money it would have taken to acquire either of them. I notice you avoided my other example of Tejaa. ;) But let's just look at the difference Giles would have made this year. I did this a while ago, so I'm sure the numbers have changed since then. However, at the beginning of September, the Cubs with Giles would have had the third best team OBP in the NL. Instead they were next to last. That's how much of a difference Giles alone would make to this team. Would it have been enough to overcome the injuries & so forth? I'm not sure. But it might have been. And Giles last year certainly would have made enough difference to make up the two games in the standings. The Cubs are not that far off from being a playoff caliber team. It is really 1-2 of the right players and then a bit more health. Adding Giles in place of Burnitz and standing pat at the other positions (while re-doing the bench and adding pitching) would have me very excited going into 2006. People talk about the weak FA class this year. Giles is a bigger offensive difference maker, even at this point of his career, than anyone that was available last year. I think Hendry would have been willing to get really creative to move AGon after 2003 but I don't see any way another GM would have been willing to eat enough of that contract to free the money the Cubs would have needed to get Tejada. IIRC it was all about the respect (ie- money) for Tejada so to get him Hendry was going to have to outbid Baltimore.

My take on the article was that he was suggesting OBP was far more important than speed, if you could only get one trait. Rafael Furcal and Ryan Freel were good at both OBP and in the stolen base department, but it's hard to find both traits. I did some quick research on 4 other NL lead-off hitters: Jose Reyes and Juan Pierre had a combined total of 104 stolen bases, but both had OBPs lower than .320. Brady Clark and David Eckstein had a combined total of only 20 stolen bases, but both had OBPs nearing .370. Whose offenses do you think did better - Mets and Marlins or Brewers and Cardinals? I think that was Mr. Miles point. A slow guy on 1B is better than having a fast guy sitting in the dugout after making an out. Hoops While I generally am more supportive of Dusty than a lot of other posters here, (which, considering the beating he takes on a daily basis, is not too hard) I have to admit that the Maias / Perez duo at the top of the order defies logies and makes me seriously question his baseball knowledge.

You are probably right, but I don't see how your examples prove that point. If the Cubs could go back in time and sign Rodgriguez, Grudz and Eckstein instead of Holly, Walker and Nomar would they have battled with the Cards down to the wire for the division title? I highly doubt it. Injuries have killed the team the last two years and part of that has been dumb luck and part has been because Hendry has relied too much on injury prone players for the team's success. However, even the Cards took some of the same risks on Morris, Mulder and Carpenter who also each have injury history and it was pretty darn amazing that all three of those guys made it through the season without missing a start. I give the Cards their due for building a winning team but there is no way they knew those pitchers would all stay healthy all year. Luck always has a big impact on which teams come out on top. To imply Hendry has not had smart planning or good decision making when he has added core players like ARam, Lee and Barrett through trades that cost the Cubs very little is not giving him enough credit. Even this year the Aardsma / Williams for Hawkins is turning out to look like a pretty good deal. Hendry has plenty to prove this offseason, but he has not exactly been sleeiping at the switch for the past 3 years.

Is this confirmed? I don't see anything anywhere about it and it seems like a strange move since Hendry I thought had said before he would let kids finish their minor leagues seasons.

Mota has another year before free agency. Maybe they can take advantage of small market teams with arby eligible middle relievers. David Riske, come on down. I agree that is the way to go. BJ Ryan looks good but the Cubs recent track record with FA relievers (i.e.- Hawkins, Remlinger) makes me a little nervous about giving big bucks to another one.

I predict a 7 run outburst from this train wreck of a lineup. I don't know why, but it always seems to work out that way.

Agreed. We'd probably need to gut the farm system to make a play for Abreu and I'm not sure that is worth it. Although, I believe Abreu could probably be had for a top flight starting pitcher. I'd rather contact DePotesta and see if they would have interest in moving their headache (Milton Bradley) for ours (Patterson). Both players most likely need changes of scenery. Bradley would have a manager he could probably play for in Baker. I wouldn't mind a Giles, Bradley, Murton outfield next season, with Pie pushing Murton if he falters. The last thing the Cubs need is someone as unstable as Bradley. On the other hand, one of the first things the Cubs need is production like Bradley's, especially out of CF. I wouldn't refuse him. If the Dodgers would trade Bradley for CPatt straight up Hendry would be nuts not to do it.

Agreed. Vick's emergence is keeping a lot of kids from being college WRs, but I give Cunningham the credit for giving guys like Vick (and the current crop) a chance to stay at QB. was warren moon before cunningham? warren moon was my favorite nfl player growing up! Let's not forget Doug Williams. He was the Super Bowl MVP in 1988 and continues to make significant contributions at Grambling. Williams left Grambling last year to join the Tampa Bay Buccaneers front office.

But it was the third year that made this all happen. I never liked this deal either at any time and I just hope that Hendry has learned from it. IMO, it was a PR move as much as landing a decent starter and now it's time to pay the piper. Hendry gambled that the starters would keep the Cubs in contention and that the crud he put on the field would pick it up a notch to push the Cubs into first...he was wrong on both counts. I guess I still don't understand the doom and gloom about the $9M next year and why there is this perception he now has to "pay the piper". His budget is in good shape for next year and he can pretty much afford to do whatever he wants in the offseason. I am sure he took into account that Remlinger, Sosa, etc came off the books in 2006 when he decided to give Maddux the extra year knowing that there would be plenty of wiggle room even with that $9M. If you go back to 2004 the Cubs had added Barrett, Lee, Walker, a full year of ARam, and Hawkins to a team that was just in the NLCS - not exactly "crud". Maddux may have also been good PR, but he primarily looked like a nice addition that would push the team over the edge toward finally winning a championship. Keep in mind that otherwise Mitre was the likely 5th starter. I hope Hendry did not "learn his lesson" if the lesson is that the next time the team seems to be on the cusp of a championship he should not extend and possibly overpay a bit to get a guy that could be the missing piece. For all the general whining about the Tribune and Hendy not spending money and going all out to win I find it illogical that they are also getting ripped for spending "too much" in this case when it was IMO clearly a move meant to solidy a championship run.

My animosity is toward Hendry for once again overpaying for underperformance. Exactly. This is an issue that probably is more relevant to the Cubs' poor planning and lack of vision. Maddux's option for 400 innings wasn't ever really in question. Being the icon that he is, Maddux was never going to be sat down, no matter how much he struggled. In addition, his injury history (or lack thereof) and his yearly accumulated innings numbers left little doubt that Maddux's option would vest. Maddux's $9M in 2006 can't be justified as money the Cubs expect him to earn. Even if you average out his salary for 3 years, $8M is too much to have expected to spend on him. The Cubs are paying for past performance and will likely suffer for it. How will they suffer for it? They are going to have more money to spend this offseason than there will be quality players to spend it on. Should they have saved the money to re-sign Clement? No thanks, his contract is longer term and he has not pitched any better. Could they have saved it and make a run a Burnett? Only if you want another guy that will probably be on the shelf half the year like Wood. Hendry is right where he wants to be from a payroll standpoint (though obviously not from a team success perspective). The Maddux contract will not stop him from signing anyone he wants this offseason. Even if he is the fifth starter he is a benefit to the team. If anything, the 2004 and 2005 Cubs have let down Greg Maddux, not vice versa.

Quick quiz, who was the better defensive RF, '04 Sosa or '05 Burnitz? Answer: They're basically the same, Rates of 105 to 106. HELL NO! Burnitz is a much better fielder. He has gotten to a lot of balls that would've gotten by Sosa, and he can actually hit the cut-off man. Got to look beyond the box score, man. agreed, i trust your judgement instead of statistics. Admitedly I do not know what goes into the "Rates" that are mentioned above but it does seem to me that generally speaking the fielding stats are not nearly as reliable as the hitting or pitching stats in measuring value. I do know that I would be very surprised if anyone that watched a significant amount of Sammy last year and Burnitz this year would come to the conclusion that they are about equal defensively.

The fact that Bobby Hill is in AAA with the PIRATES says all I need to know about his career. Dubois is a dime a dozen guy that can hit fastballs a ton but can't hit anything with a bend in it or play the field.