Cubzfan64

Personally I don't think they are all that solid of a team. They have alot of mix and match parts and an awful lot of holes to be a solid contender for a Championship. Everyone here is fully aware of where their deficiencies are and most would have to admit that this isn't what you would call a "solid" team at all. Of course, that said.... If they can get into the postseason, anything can happen - I've seen better Cub teams than this not even make it that far.

Hey, maybe this is the new Cub philosophy - trade decent minor league prospects, let another team develop them into real players and then overpay to trade for them back!! *sarcasm*

I'd do that deal in a second. As would I!

First of all, Pena cannot be sent down due to his length of service in the major leagues - apparently he came up to the ML WAY TOO EARLY according to most baseball pundits. The only way Pena could be of value is if a team can afford to basically let him learn how to play defense as well as learn how to make contact with a curveball and how to lay off pitches while playing FULL TIME. A couple team now have already tried the "he can learn while platooning" theory and it's been a disaster for Boston for sure. There have been discussions in the past here about Manny Ramirez being a poor outfielder (I personally think he's average), but I can tell you right now that Manny Ramirez looks like a gold glover compared to Pena and that's honestly not sarcasm - Pena is TERRIBLE defensively - absolutely terrible! If the Cubs were out of the race, I'd say take a flier on him if it costs you basically nothing, but imho no team in the middle of a penant race should waste a roster spot on a "project" player - and Pena is definitely that! He gets you excited because every now and then he connects with a fastball and sends it a mile - but when every single ball hit to him in the outfield looks like an adventure, and he SO's between 30-50% of the time, I just think he would be an awful fit with our team - regardless if it costs us nothing. Trust me when I tell you that Boston would DFA him if they didn't think there's some crappy team out there like Washington or Kansas City that might be willing to give up at least something for him. Pena's only hope is that he gets hooked up with a team that can play him full time and afford to put up with a guy that should be in AAA learning how to tune his abilities and talent. Just say no to Wily Mo!

Yup - I have the exact same feeling. I can't think of any other pitcher who was facing surgery who decided to treat it instead and saw signs of improvement but then one day "woke up" to find himself pain free. Medical miracles are rare and let's face it, we're talking Cubs and Kerry Wood. If/when he returns, I'm sure I won't be the only one holding my breath on every pitch he makes just waiting for the one that puts him back under the knife and/or ends his career. Good luck though Kerry!

Stairs would be a pretty good fit imho - if it were easy to get him I'd do that one in a heartbeat. I'll bet you anything the Red Sox are looking his way too, but I don't see Toronto trading to a competing team in the division. On top of that, in the year that Rod Beck passed away, it would almost be like having him here - Stairs almost looks like he could be his brother, and I'd hazard a guess that the two of them have similar personalities and would have gotten along great.

Ouch - Ward hasn't been earthshaking but he's been pretty solid as a pH and spot starter and provides a decent LH veteran presence. We're going to have to do a little shopping now for someone to fill that role. I'll be really curious to see if the Cubs find a way to really go for it this year and make a "difference making" trade before the deadline.

Imagine what his stats would be if he had some bonafide protection in the lineup around him!

You're mistaken there - they value their young arms TREMENDOUSLY! They already bumped Buccholz up to AAA recently and if there is one arm in their minor league system they consider to be untouchable, it would be his.

So nobody has heard any inklings of any "ghost" injury or anything? That's a good thing. Unless he salvages his season thought I have to believe he isn't going to command as much $ as he really should. I'd love to see him with us in 2008+ as well - just don't know what kind of $ we're going to have to play with this offseason.

With Jones becoming a FA after this season, I'm curious about a few things: 1) Is there any reason to suspect he's hurt? He's never been a real high avg guy and he SO's quite a bit, but this season he's on pace for a terrible year as far as BA and SO's go. 2) Is he "past his prime at age 30 " - or is he just having one of those "off years?" 3) If he doesn't get has BA up in the .250+ range, what do you think the bidding will be on him this winter? 4) Would he be a fit for the Cubs OF if because of this season we have a chance to "buy low" for a change and hope he rebounds in 2008? Just curious what you all think about him.

I'm gambling on some hunches that I hope pay off I guess. We'll have to see how it goes - I understand your points and they were things I thought about, but my gut told me to go with this. There's no $ in my league - it's just a group of 8 friends playing, so the worst that can happen is I lose bragging rights :) Thanks for the input

Curious to see what other folks think of it.... gave: Vlad Guerrero, Chone Figgins, Papelbon got: Sheffield, Brian Roberts, M Rivera I have an outfield now of Sheffield, Ordonez, Ramirez with Matsui available My infield is Cuddyear, Roberts, Rollins, Casey Blake and Maur at C. I already have Isringhousen, Saito and Marmol (with Reyes on the DL) for closers and am happy with my Starters right now. I think the trade is one of those that should help both of our teams. Personally I feel that the Yankees are going to make a run at it and Rivera has been pitching much better of late. Papelbon has been outstanding, but they treat him with kid gloves and he doesn't even get every S opportunity - plus, I'm not so sure Boston's offense will hold up in the 2nd half unless they get their crap together. The only thing I was hesitant about in the deal is having 2 Tiger OF's in my starting lineup - in the rare instances where Detroit goes into a slump I could be in trouble, but I do have Matsui I could put in now and then. Just curious what you all thought.

I guess I'm in the minority here too, and while I can understand the other side of the argument, I simply don't happen to agree that it's such a terrible contract as some of you believe. I'm not a huge Ichiro fan, but face the facts - the guy is a perenial 200+ hits, 100+ R guy each and every year - and that's for a team that isn't a terribly good offensive team! He may hit alot of singles, but when you include his SB totals and count those as doubles, he's a 40+ doubles hitter every year as well - plus he happens to be an excellent outfielder. Name some other guys who didn't hit a ton of HR's but had speed? Lofton, Henderson, O Smith... Each of those guys still had very productive years into their late 30's, and I see no signs that Ichiro is regressing. Where's the proof that "Ichiro-mania" has dwindled in Seattle and/or Japan? Do you know this for a fact or are you just assuming it? As someone else mentioned, Ichiro provides $ to Seattle in revenue and people smarter than I am have obviously decided that $20 mil per year is still a good deal, or they wouldn't be signing him. Would I want $20mil spent on him if he were to sign with the Cubs - honestly I couldn't care less how much these guys are paid as long as it doesn't keep "my team" from signing other guys who can help me win. I don't know Seattle's payroll issues or whether their management is primarily focused on making money, or whether they are committed to winning at all costs. For some teams, a $20mil contract for Ichiro might be a bad contract, for others, it might not only be an ok contract, but it might also provide them with the type of player they need to win.

What? I 2nd that - what??

Ichiro is THE symbol of the Mariner's franchise. He is what they market the team around and has a HUGE asian following in an area with a good size asian population. He could probably name his price and they'd pay it

Unless I'm mistaken, Boras is his agent - that guy RARELY IF EVER leaves any money on the table. IMHO, ARod will go to a team where: A - He gets the most money B - He gets to play SS A guy doesn't hire Scott Boras as his agent if $ isn't the prime motivation

Nah Vance, don't do that. The memories surrounding the autographs you have surely outweigh the monetary value they hold.

That's indeed sad to hear - you can't help but speculate around the causes when it's someone 38. The coolest thing I remember hearing about him was when he was trying to make a comeback with the Cubs (couple years ago?) and he was apparently living in a trailer out beyond the OF fence somewhere. I remember reading that he was great to the young guys in the minors just sittin around shootin the [expletive] and downing some beers with them after the games. My condolences to his family.

and dwight smith but 89 was a fun year (until that whole ending bit against the Giants, that is) 1984 was the year that still haunts me personally - that was the team of destiny with some veterans having career years at the end of their playing days and a mix of young exciting players. I still can't believe it wasn't the Cubs vs. Tigers in the 84 WS. earlier this year i was in caesar's palace. i was with a date walking around the shops at the forum and the sports store there had steve garvey signing autographs just inside the front door at a table. the employee standing in front of the store trying to draw people in came up to me and my date and said "would you like an autograph by steve garvey?" to which i replied with my lips pursed like josey wales, "f*k no i don't want an autograph by that piece of s*t." garvey just stared at me from inside and said "cubs fan?" with a grin, and i said "f*ing right". he just laughed. even steve garvey knows how big of a hoax '84 was for the dirty padres. That's hilarious - and even though I hate Steve Garvey, I think it's damn funny that like you said, even he knows how much the 1984 Cubs were robbed!

and dwight smith but 89 was a fun year (until that whole ending bit against the Giants, that is) 1984 was the year that still haunts me personally - that was the team of destiny with some veterans having career years at the end of their playing days and a mix of young exciting players. I still can't believe it wasn't the Cubs vs. Tigers in the 84 WS.

Scott Thompson Jerome Walton

That's something I've felt for quite a few years now - It seems like it's been years since we've had a "balanced" team - one that has some speed, some OBP guys, a couple long ball threats etc... Sure some guys can learn to become different types of hitters, but it's a rare thing and most hitters are what they are by the time they've had a couple years in the major leagues. I've often thought it must not be that tough for veteran starting pitchers to prepare for and oppose the Cubs - so many of the hitters have the same style of offense. As long as you have a semblance of control, just use their aggressiveness against them and make them constantly swing at YOUR pitches.

Who knows, but I do know if he's traded now, the Cubs will once again be in the same position as they almost always seem to be... "buy high and sell low" - the exact opposite philosophy you need to put together a long term competitive team. I'm somewhat ashamed to say it because I've been a rabid Cub fan since 1964, but I only watched a few games last year and haven't been able to make myself watch a single one this year. I have too many other things to do IRL to allow myself to get emotionally attached to a team put together the way this one has been for 2-3 years. I've come to the conclusion that the lack of success of this franchise lies for the most part on the folks who evaluate the talent, make the trades and signings and put the product on the field. The manager and players certainly carry some of the load, but when you put a lousy product on the field most of the time and the revenue keeps flowing in no matter what, there's no incentive to do a better job. It's really an embarassment

With all due respect - I watched him play many games in Boston last year and while he isn't a gold glove 2B, he's certainly well above average and absolutely NOT horrible. I would have preferred Loretta for 1 year at what he signed for than DeRosa for 3 at what we signed him for.