strasburg's innings limit

[Derwood]

Does removing Strasburg hurt their chances of winning the WS this year, yes or no?

[Sammy Sofa]

Yuuuuuuup.

[Yeti]

so they should throw him under the bus and likely ruin a fine career for one season?

[Guest]

They should probably move to a Strasburg/Zimmerman/Strasburg/Gonzalez/Strasburg rotation. He's their best pitcher, so they're just making their team worse by throwing lesser starters. Similarly, the Dodgers should really explore a Kershaw/Kershaw/Kershaw/Kershaw/Kershaw setup for the stretch run.

[Yeti]

individual player's health be damned! win at all costs!!!

[Derwood]

I'm getting itchy from all the strawmen being built in this thread

[Guest]

Yes, the guy making the decision a binary "Does removing Strasburg hurt their chances of winning the WS this year, yes or no?" argument is the one victimized by strawmen.

[Guest]

It's odd because you've been making strawman arguments.

 

my issue is that 160 innings is a completely arbitrary, made up number and the Nats may torpedo their chances based on this completely arbitrary, made up number

 

He threw 24 inning last year. What should be his inning limit?

 

As you say, every opportunity to compete is valuable but your citing the 2003 Cubs is flawed since the reckless use of Prior and Wood - similar to what you want the Nationals to do with Strasburg - torpedoed future Cubs teams' chances of competing in future years.

 

I don't want them to have Strasburg throw 150 pitches every outing.

 

I also don't want them to say "welp, we have the best record in baseball but we might win the WS in 3 or 4 years, so shut er' down, boys!"

 

They're not shutting him down because they might win the World Series in 3-4 years. They're shutting him down because they want Strasburg healthy and pitching 200 innings in 3-4 years.

 

which will be great if they're in 3rd place, right?

 

So, if they're in 3rd place a few years down the road, you're implying it would be bad to have a healthy, great player?

 

Hell, they can still make the playoffs while being in 3rd place.

[Sammy Sofa]

I'm getting itchy from all the strawmen being built in this thread

 

Says the guy who started this page with a righteous davearm2 post.

[Guest]

Does removing Strasburg hurt their chances of winning the WS this year, yes or no?

 

Damn, how did I miss this post?

[Clem Fandango]

Wouldn't it make more sense to limit pitch counts instead of innings, and just let the innings run up naturally so long as the pitch count remains conservative and safe?

[Derwood]

I'm saying they will be in the playoffs this year, and Strasburg gives them a better chance of winning than no Strasburg.

 

You guys are the ones saying that NOT shutting him down will hurt him down the line, which isn't something anyone can say with any certainty

[Sammy Sofa]

You guys are the ones saying that NOT shutting him down will hurt him down the line, which isn't something anyone can say with any certainty

 

Yeti's the only one who came close to saying that, and even then he said it was "likely." Everyone else is talking about it as what it is: a precautionary measure.

[Yeti]

You guys are the ones saying that NOT shutting him down will hurt him down the line, which isn't something anyone can say with any certainty

 

Yeti's the only one who came close to saying that, and even then he said it was "likely." Everyone else is talking about it as what it is: a precautionary measure.

and i'm obviously just yanking his chain for poops and chuckles

[Derwood]

So if the Cubs had the best record in baseball, you'd be cool with shutting our Ace down for some nebulous possible future?

[Guest]

So if the Cubs had the best record in baseball, you'd be cool with shutting our Ace down for some nebulous possible future?

 

If he only threw 30 IP last year because his elbow was getting reconstructed, then yes, yes, a thousand times yes.

 

EDIT: Strasburg's career high in IP is 123, so he's still throwing about 50 innings more than he ever has.

[Guest]

Wouldn't it make more sense to limit pitch counts instead of innings, and just let the innings run up naturally so long as the pitch count remains conservative and safe?

There are a whole lot of studies out there that show the impact of a pitcher increasing their innings count too much in a single year. In general, if a pitcher throws too many more than 20-30 IP more than their career high, bad things tend to happen. It's not always an injury. Quite often, the performance in the subsequent year just takes a huge hit.

[Sammy Sofa]

So if the Cubs had the best record in baseball, you'd be cool with shutting our Ace down for some nebulous possible future?

 

Wait, you're accusing other people of propping up strawmen? He's not just their ace; he's their very young ace coming back from major surgery who has never pitched nowhere near the amount of innings he'll pitch this year.

[Yeti]

if he has an injury history like strasburg's, you have to do something to reduce his exposure. whether it is doing something like the logan suggested a few posts back or completely shut him down at some arbitrary innings limit, i dunno, but then again i'm not a highly paid baseball exec. you can't just ride him like we did to prior in 2003 though, that would just be irresponsible.

[Derwood]

So if the Cubs had the best record in baseball, you'd be cool with shutting our Ace down for some nebulous possible future?

 

Wait, you're accusing other people of propping up strawmen? He's not just their ace; he's their very young ace coming back from major surgery who has never pitched nowhere near the amount of innings he'll pitch this year.

 

I'm not implying this is your position. I'm simply asking the question.

[Sammy Sofa]

So if the Cubs had the best record in baseball, you'd be cool with shutting our Ace down for some nebulous possible future?

 

Wait, you're accusing other people of propping up strawmen? He's not just their ace; he's their very young ace coming back from major surgery who has never pitched nowhere near the amount of innings he'll pitch this year.

 

I'm not implying this is your position. I'm simply asking the question.

 

You're asking the question of whether we'd be "cool with shutting our ace down." That can mean a lot. If you're asking if the Cubs were in the Nationals' spot and they had Strasburg would I want them to do the same? Absolutely.

[Clem Fandango]

Wouldn't it make more sense to limit pitch counts instead of innings, and just let the innings run up naturally so long as the pitch count remains conservative and safe?

There are a whole lot of studies out there that show the impact of a pitcher increasing their innings count too much in a single year. In general, if a pitcher throws too many more than 20-30 IP more than their career high, bad things tend to happen. It's not always an injury. Quite often, the performance in the subsequent year just takes a huge hit.

 

Did not know that. Thanks!

[Sammy Sofa]

So if the Cubs had the best record in baseball, you'd be cool with shutting our Ace down for some nebulous possible future?

 

Wait, you're accusing other people of propping up strawmen? He's not just their ace; he's their very young ace coming back from major surgery who has never pitched nowhere near the amount of innings he'll pitch this year.

 

I'm not implying this is your position. I'm simply asking the question.

 

You're asking the question of whether we'd be "cool with shutting our ace down." That can mean a lot. If you're asking if the Cubs were in the Nationals' spot and they had Strasburg would I want them to do the same? Absolutely.

 

To add to this, I'd be amazed at any Cubs fan who wouldn't want them to do the same given what they went through with Prior.

[Guest]

So if the Cubs had the best record in baseball, you'd be cool with shutting our Ace down for some nebulous possible future?

 

Wait, you're accusing other people of propping up strawmen? He's not just their ace; he's their very young ace coming back from major surgery who has never pitched nowhere near the amount of innings he'll pitch this year.

 

I'm not implying this is your position. I'm simply asking the question.

 

You're asking the question of whether we'd be "cool with shutting our ace down." That can mean a lot. If you're asking if the Cubs were in the Nationals' spot and they had Strasburg would I want them to do the same? Absolutely.

 

Agreed - I absolutely would. As Cubs fans, we have firsthand hindsight about what reckless behavior to young pitchers in the playoff race can do.

 

ETA: Which is what you said in your second post, RE: Prior.

[Clem Fandango]

The Nationals are in a position where, even without Straasburg, they still have a great rotation with Gonzalez, Zimmermann, and Jackson. They can shut him down and still be capable of making the playoffs and doing well. If they got a wild hair up their ass, they could conceivably bring him out for the playoffs after a full month's worth of rest, but who knows what affect that will have on his arm and long term future.

 

I think they play it safe. They got enough bullets in the chamber to succeed without him. With Zimmerman playing like an MVP over the last month and a half, Michael Morse starting to comeback around with his power, Adam Laroche having an improbable comeback year, Werth back in the lineup and performing well, the aforementioned rotation, and one of the best bullpens in baseball that just got Drew Storen back late last month... they're in a good position to succeed without Stephen Strasburg.