The Bears Offseason Thread

[RynoRules]

We could draft anyone @ 6. It's immaterial. The point is, Briggs is not worth nearly the 6th pick overall. If Snyder does this, he is confirmed as the biggest idiot in football.

 

He wouldn't be trading the 6th pick overall for Briggs. He'd be trading that for Briggs and the 31st. He'd be trading one potential all pro player for an all pro player and a guy who is a little less likely to be all pro.

 

My only problem with such a trade from a Bears perspective is, with 31 and 37, we know they already need O line help, secondary help, and offensive playmaker help.

 

Now, trade Briggs with the 31 for that 6th, and all of a sudden you add one more need, without adding anymore draft picks. The guys who are obvious replacements for Briggs aren't worth anywhere near being a 6 pick, so if you take them, then you are essentially removing much of the value of that 6th pick in the first place. Angelo would almost have to trade down, to try and get 2 later 1st round picks.

 

If you are giving up Briggs and your 1st, I think you have to end up with at least 2 picks when all is said and done. Because all of a sudden you have multiple needs and serious depth issues.

 

I completely agree. If I were Jerry I'd offer Briggs and the no. 1 (31 overall) this year for the Skins no. 1 (6 overall) and their 3rd Rnd pick in 08'.

[Soul]

Think of it this way. In terms of draft points, this would be like picking up 2 mid-2nd round picks. Or, a mid 2nd-rounder and 2 3rd round picks.

 

Briggs himself was a mere 3rd round pick.

[goonys evil twin]

We could draft anyone @ 6. It's immaterial. The point is' date=' Briggs is not worth nearly the 6th pick overall. If Snyder does this, he is confirmed as the biggest idiot in football.[/quote']

 

He wouldn't be trading the 6th pick overall for Briggs. He'd be trading that for Briggs and the 31st. He'd be trading one potential all pro player for an all pro player and a guy who is a little less likely to be all pro.

 

My only problem with such a trade from a Bears perspective is, with 31 and 37, we know they already need O line help, secondary help, and offensive playmaker help.

 

Now, trade Briggs with the 31 for that 6th, and all of a sudden you add one more need, without adding anymore draft picks. The guys who are obvious replacements for Briggs aren't worth anywhere near being a 6 pick, so if you take them, then you are essentially removing much of the value of that 6th pick in the first place. Angelo would almost have to trade down, to try and get 2 later 1st round picks.

 

If you are giving up Briggs and your 1st, I think you have to end up with at least 2 picks when all is said and done. Because all of a sudden you have multiple needs and serious depth issues.

 

The draft point upgrade from 31 to 6 is 1,000. It's massive. You may not be adding another pick, but that's not how it should be viewed because a pick can be turned into more picks.

 

It's about the value gained. This is the exact same reason why most people didn't understand what we gained in the TJ trade.

 

Yeah, the move is 1000, but you said Briggs isn't worth the 6th. They aren't getting Briggs for the 6th, they are getting Briggs and the 31st. A value of 1000, or, 2 early 2nd rounc picks. That would be the value Briggs would carry in this deal, and it's hardly anything close to overpaying on their part. Briggs for the #35 and #45 pick in the draft. A pro bowl linebacker who is young and always healthy for two picks that might produce one starter and one quality backup if all goes well. That is the value we're talking here.

 

Briggs for the #6 straight up is a no-brainer for the Bears and absurd for the Redskins. Briggs and the 31st for the #6 is hardly the travesty that some are making it out to be.

[cubweiser03]

These are the guys i want with #6 and they can still get a very good OLB at #37.

 

They wouldn't get anybody that could come close to Briggs' production, and they'd still be desperate for O lineman, not to mention RB depth and secondary help.

 

If you go DT with the 6 and OLB with the 37, then I think you have to go O line with your 3rd, and your already at the 94th pick by then. Your 4th round pick is 130, and by then your pickings will be slim for Benson's running mate or WR help, and you haven't even addressed the secondary.

 

Well its a given that nobody will come close to Briggs production on 2007, expecting a rookie to produce as much as him isnt what is being traded for here. You want Briggs production, wait 10 games and get 6. Even if Briggs isnt traded im going to think hard about burning a high pick on an OLB anyway

 

Brown was just re-signed, drafting an OG with 31 or 37 isnt as much a priority if he wasnt signed. AA in secondary isnt as important high round pick anymore either.

 

You've just described all the need areas, how is not trading Briggs going to solve what you just laid out here.

 

I subsribe to the philosophy that 'it all starts up front.' Especially with this defense. This will be the Bears last chance (baring another trade like this)in 5 years to draft an Impact DT, thats why i jump on this opportunity. Sure Patrick Willis at 6 and an OG at 37 would fill needs quicker but i dont think an OLB is as important at as an impact DT. OLB is very strong in this draft, waiting til 37 to get that isnt that big a drop off from Willis, i would take that gamble.

[goonys evil twin]

Think of it this way. In terms of draft points, this would be like picking up 2 mid-2nd round picks. Or, a mid 2nd-rounder and 2 3rd round picks.

 

Briggs himself was a mere 3rd round pick.

 

What he was is meaningless. He is a pro bowler. He is one of the best in the game. And he is very young. Pointing out that he was a 3rd rounder is as meaningful as pointing out that Michael Haynes was a 1st rounder. That has no reflection on present value.

 

Briggs for the equivalent of 2 mid-2nd round picks is not something Angelo should go gaga for. It's something you should consider, but opening up an absolute must fill hole at linebacker is hardly a favorable situation.

[RynoRules]

Think of it this way. In terms of draft points, this would be like picking up 2 mid-2nd round picks. Or, a mid 2nd-rounder and 2 3rd round picks.

 

Briggs himself was a mere 3rd round pick.

 

What he was is meaningless. He is a pro bowler. He is one of the best in the game. And he is very young. Pointing out that he was a 3rd rounder is as meaningful as pointing out that Michael Haynes was a 1st rounder. That has no reflection on present value.

 

Briggs for the equivalent of 2 mid-2nd round picks is not something Angelo should go gaga for. It's something you should consider, but opening up an absolute must fill hole at linebacker is hardly a favorable situation.

 

Sheesh, goony, hell must be freezing over b/c I completely agree with you again. :D

 

That logic is quite flawed, Soul. Tom Brady was a 6th rnd pick, so should the Pats only get a 4th rnd pick for him?

[Soul]

Think of it this way. In terms of draft points, this would be like picking up 2 mid-2nd round picks. Or, a mid 2nd-rounder and 2 3rd round picks.

 

Briggs himself was a mere 3rd round pick.

 

What he was is meaningless. He is a pro bowler. He is one of the best in the game. And he is very young. Pointing out that he was a 3rd rounder is as meaningful as pointing out that Michael Haynes was a 1st rounder. That has no reflection on present value.

 

Briggs for the equivalent of 2 mid-2nd round picks is not something Angelo should go gaga for. It's something you should consider, but opening up an absolute must fill hole at linebacker is hardly a favorable situation.

 

It has meaning in terms of the additional value we're getting from him over & above what we drafted him at and what we wound up paying him.

[goonys evil twin]

I completely agree. If I were Jerry I'd offer Briggs and the no. 1 (31 overall) this year for the Skins no. 1 (6 overall) and their 3rd Rnd pick in 08'.

 

Yeah, I was thinking there should be some sort of later pick thrown in.

 

I don't think I'd be pissed if it was just 6 for 31 and Briggs, but to really be happy with it I'd like to see them get a sweetener.

[goonys evil twin]

Think of it this way. In terms of draft points, this would be like picking up 2 mid-2nd round picks. Or, a mid 2nd-rounder and 2 3rd round picks.

 

Briggs himself was a mere 3rd round pick.

 

What he was is meaningless. He is a pro bowler. He is one of the best in the game. And he is very young. Pointing out that he was a 3rd rounder is as meaningful as pointing out that Michael Haynes was a 1st rounder. That has no reflection on present value.

 

Briggs for the equivalent of 2 mid-2nd round picks is not something Angelo should go gaga for. It's something you should consider, but opening up an absolute must fill hole at linebacker is hardly a favorable situation.

 

It has meaning in terms of the additional value we're getting from him over & above what we drafted him at and what we wound up paying him.

 

No, it has no meaning. It's absurd to include it in any sort of negotiations involving a potential trade. It's something to talk about from a PR standpoint, but it's meaningless.

[Mark_R]

I completely agree. If I were Jerry I'd offer Briggs and the no. 1 (31 overall) this year for the Skins no. 1 (6 overall) and their 3rd Rnd pick in 08'.

 

Yeah, I was thinking there should be some sort of later pick thrown in.

 

I don't think I'd be pissed if it was just 6 for 31 and Briggs, but to really be happy with it I'd like to see them get a sweetener.

 

 

What if the Bears could get the Pats' two picks with that 6 pick?

[Soul]

Think of it this way. In terms of draft points, this would be like picking up 2 mid-2nd round picks. Or, a mid 2nd-rounder and 2 3rd round picks.

 

Briggs himself was a mere 3rd round pick.

 

What he was is meaningless. He is a pro bowler. He is one of the best in the game. And he is very young. Pointing out that he was a 3rd rounder is as meaningful as pointing out that Michael Haynes was a 1st rounder. That has no reflection on present value.

 

Briggs for the equivalent of 2 mid-2nd round picks is not something Angelo should go gaga for. It's something you should consider, but opening up an absolute must fill hole at linebacker is hardly a favorable situation.

 

Sheesh, goony, hell must be freezing over b/c I completely agree with you again. :D

 

That logic is quite flawed, Soul. Tom Brady was a 6th rnd pick, so should the Pats only get a 4th rnd pick for him?

 

Here's a link to a good draft points page:

 

http://www.sportznutz.com/nfl/draft/draft_point_value_chart.htm

 

You're thinking in terms of rounds. That has little meaning. You need to start thinking in terms of a straight up, pick-by-pick draft. Rounds are meaninigless. Draft value is.

 

Brady for a 4th round pick would be an increase of somewhere around 50 draft points. We're talking about a 1,000 point net here.

[cubweiser03]

Think of it this way. In terms of draft points, this would be like picking up 2 mid-2nd round picks. Or, a mid 2nd-rounder and 2 3rd round picks.

 

Briggs himself was a mere 3rd round pick.

 

What does the point system say compared to what the patriots got from the seahawks for Branch?

 

I check your link :)

[Soul]

Think of it this way. In terms of draft points, this would be like picking up 2 mid-2nd round picks. Or, a mid 2nd-rounder and 2 3rd round picks.

 

Briggs himself was a mere 3rd round pick.

 

What he was is meaningless. He is a pro bowler. He is one of the best in the game. And he is very young. Pointing out that he was a 3rd rounder is as meaningful as pointing out that Michael Haynes was a 1st rounder. That has no reflection on present value.

 

Briggs for the equivalent of 2 mid-2nd round picks is not something Angelo should go gaga for. It's something you should consider, but opening up an absolute must fill hole at linebacker is hardly a favorable situation.

 

It has meaning in terms of the additional value we're getting from him over & above what we drafted him at and what we wound up paying him.

 

No, it has no meaning. It's absurd to include it in any sort of negotiations involving a potential trade. It's something to talk about from a PR standpoint, but it's meaningless.

 

I never said it should be included in negotiations. I have every confidence Angelo could replace Briggs with an equal or better player. You apparently don't.

 

From my perspective, we're on the verge of turning a 3rd round pick into a 1,000 point draft point gain. That's significant, not meaningless. Especially since I believe Angelo can replace Briggs with a better ballplayer.

[goonys evil twin]

I completely agree. If I were Jerry I'd offer Briggs and the no. 1 (31 overall) this year for the Skins no. 1 (6 overall) and their 3rd Rnd pick in 08'.

 

Yeah, I was thinking there should be some sort of later pick thrown in.

 

I don't think I'd be pissed if it was just 6 for 31 and Briggs, but to really be happy with it I'd like to see them get a sweetener.

 

 

What if the Bears could get the Pats' two picks with that 6 pick?

 

On the points board, that's taking less value. Essentially, you are trading Briggs for one late 1st round pick and a bump up 3 spots on your 2nd.

 

However, having 2 first rounders could be really attractive, given the needs the Bears have and who is available. The 24, 28 and 37 picks in the draft should be able to net you quite a haul.

[goonys evil twin]

I never said it should be included in negotiations. I have every confidence Angelo could replace Briggs with an equal or better player. You apparently don't.

 

From my perspective, we're on the verge of turning a 3rd round pick into a 1,000 point draft point gain. That's significant, not meaningless. Especially since I believe Angelo can replace Briggs with a better ballplayer.

 

It's meaningless. It's absolutely absurd to even bring it up.

 

He's not a 3rd rounder. There's nothing 3rd rounder about him. We already got the value of him outperforming his pick, thinking of him as a 3rd rounder right now only gives away that value.

 

Your perspective is just plain wrong.

[Soul]

I completely agree. If I were Jerry I'd offer Briggs and the no. 1 (31 overall) this year for the Skins no. 1 (6 overall) and their 3rd Rnd pick in 08'.

 

Yeah, I was thinking there should be some sort of later pick thrown in.

 

I don't think I'd be pissed if it was just 6 for 31 and Briggs, but to really be happy with it I'd like to see them get a sweetener.

 

 

What if the Bears could get the Pats' two picks with that 6 pick?

 

On the points board, that's taking less value. Essentially, you are trading Briggs for one late 1st round pick and a bump up 3 spots on your 2nd.

 

However, having 2 first rounders could be really attractive, given the needs the Bears have and who is available. The 24, 28 and 37 picks in the draft should be able to net you quite a haul.

 

Can we at least agree if something like this was the endgame it would be a decent resolution to the Briggs situation?

[Soul]

I never said it should be included in negotiations. I have every confidence Angelo could replace Briggs with an equal or better player. You apparently don't.

 

From my perspective, we're on the verge of turning a 3rd round pick into a 1,000 point draft point gain. That's significant, not meaningless. Especially since I believe Angelo can replace Briggs with a better ballplayer.

 

It's meaningless. It's absolutely absurd to even bring it up.

 

He's not a 3rd rounder. There's nothing 3rd rounder about him. We already got the value of him outperforming his pick, thinking of him as a 3rd rounder right now only gives away that value.

 

Your perspective is just plain wrong.

 

He is a 3rd round pick, we still have the same GM who engineered the pick in the first place, and ignoring those facts is, quite simply, putting your head in the sand.

[goonys evil twin]

I completely agree. If I were Jerry I'd offer Briggs and the no. 1 (31 overall) this year for the Skins no. 1 (6 overall) and their 3rd Rnd pick in 08'.

 

Yeah, I was thinking there should be some sort of later pick thrown in.

 

I don't think I'd be pissed if it was just 6 for 31 and Briggs, but to really be happy with it I'd like to see them get a sweetener.

 

 

What if the Bears could get the Pats' two picks with that 6 pick?

 

On the points board, that's taking less value. Essentially, you are trading Briggs for one late 1st round pick and a bump up 3 spots on your 2nd.

 

However, having 2 first rounders could be really attractive, given the needs the Bears have and who is available. The 24, 28 and 37 picks in the draft should be able to net you quite a haul.

 

Can we at least agree if something like this was the endgame it would be a decent resolution to the Briggs situation?

 

Decent, if Angelo makes the right picks. But hardly the no-brainer some are trying to paint it as. It's not like Angelo is immune to making bad picks. He did pick a crap safety last year in Manning, a worthless olineman in Columbo and other relatively high complete busts. If anything, that 6th pick has less value with Angelo choosing it, since he's been much better in the 3rd and 4th rounds than in the 1st.

[goonys evil twin]

I never said it should be included in negotiations. I have every confidence Angelo could replace Briggs with an equal or better player. You apparently don't.

 

From my perspective, we're on the verge of turning a 3rd round pick into a 1,000 point draft point gain. That's significant, not meaningless. Especially since I believe Angelo can replace Briggs with a better ballplayer.

 

It's meaningless. It's absolutely absurd to even bring it up.

 

He's not a 3rd rounder. There's nothing 3rd rounder about him. We already got the value of him outperforming his pick, thinking of him as a 3rd rounder right now only gives away that value.

 

Your perspective is just plain wrong.

 

He is a 3rd round pick, we still have the same GM who engineered the pick in the first place, and ignoring those facts is, quite simply, putting your head in the sand.

 

Think of this:

 

You bought a stock 3 years ago for $25. It's trading at $70 right now. Are you willing to sell at $60 because you've still made a huge profit from the initial investment and have a lot of faith in your ability to turn that $60 into $180?

Edited March 27, 2007 by goony's evil twin

[Chocolate Milk]

I would take the rumored deal.

[Chocolate Milk]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but the value of the move is equal to about the 16th overall pick.

[Soul]

I never said it should be included in negotiations. I have every confidence Angelo could replace Briggs with an equal or better player. You apparently don't.

 

From my perspective, we're on the verge of turning a 3rd round pick into a 1,000 point draft point gain. That's significant, not meaningless. Especially since I believe Angelo can replace Briggs with a better ballplayer.

 

It's meaningless. It's absolutely absurd to even bring it up.

 

He's not a 3rd rounder. There's nothing 3rd rounder about him. We already got the value of him outperforming his pick, thinking of him as a 3rd rounder right now only gives away that value.

 

Your perspective is just plain wrong.

 

He is a 3rd round pick, we still have the same GM who engineered the pick in the first place, and ignoring those facts is, quite simply, putting your head in the sand.

 

This is so incredibly dumb I can't even talk about it anymore. It's actually pissing me off how stupid this is.

 

 

Think of this:

 

You bought a stock 3 years ago for $25. It's trading at $70 right now. Are you willing to sell at $60 because you've still made a huge profit from the initial investment and have a lot of faith in your ability to turn that $60 into $180?

 

Sorry for making you angry, but you're still making assumptions that you can not make. Why would you assume that trading Briggs at the proposed level represents a downgrade from what his "true" value is?

 

I think you're underestimating the level of upgrade of going from the #31 to the #6.

 

...which is odd, since you were the one who pointed out the value of getting the #37 for TJ in exchange for the #63. Are you just forgetting that argument now?

[goonys evil twin]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but the value of the move is equal to about the 16th overall pick.

 

Or the 35th/45th, or 50/60/78/100, or ....., well, I'll stop there.

[Soul]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but the value of the move is equal to about the 16th overall pick.

 

I've been trying to point out the overall value of going from #31 to #6, but yes I like the way you put it. This is like gaining the #16 overall.

[goonys evil twin]

Sorry for making you angry, but you're still making assumptions that you can not make. Why would you assume that trading Briggs at the proposed level represents a downgrade from what his "true" value is?

 

I think you're underestimating the level of upgrade of going from the #31 to the #6.

 

...which is odd, since you were the one who pointed out the value of getting the #37 for TJ in exchange for the #63. Are you just forgetting that argument now?

 

Like I said, you're wrong. And we can only hope Angelo doesn't think like you. I'm not making assumptions I can't make. What I'm doing is not allowing frivolous meanginless information to cloud the issue.