David

This isn't baseball or football. You don't have a shot at a title as long as you are decent and get into the playoffs. I can't remember the last time I saw more than 2 teams as legit title contenders, maybe 3. If you luck into a great player and win titles, that's cool and all, but it's a damn near impossible thing to set out to do. Especially with a cap on player salaries. They don't come around in the draft all that often (that's an understatement) and the financial advantages a big market should have don't matter. You know what really sucks? Winning 15 games and then drafting Marcus Fizer or some [expletive]. And then winning 15 games again. And again. And again. Going years without being interested in the team after 2 or 3 games. Simple. Don't draft [expletive] stiffs. Use FA to accentuate. I'd rather be horrible and give being GREAT a shot, than sitting in the 6-10 range in the [expletive] ass East for the rest of Jimmy's deal......Then, getting worse once he laughs at the ineptitude and leaves. You're not going to stay in the 15 win range forever. Hell, trade off the kids and picks and reboot in 2 years. But give yourself a damn chance. I really don't even see how a 35-40 win team with no ceiling is watchable personally. who said anything about wanting to be a 35-40 win team? i want to put a good roster around jimmy (kind of like they did with rose in 2010) over this offseason and next and win 50+ and then i'll deal with being heartbroken for 3-4 days when we lose to lebron again. jimmy is good enough to be the best player on that type of team.

when the alternative is let's firebomb the roster and have a completely irrelevant team that we don't even watch for years and years with no end in sight in hopes of maybe being one of those charmed <10% of the league that ends up with the type of player who can win you championships? it's a shitty setup, but i'll take having a watchable and enjoyable team over tanking when the odds of actually getting what you want are that slim. i don't necessarily watch sports for championships as much as i do for entertainment and if the nba/basketball are set up in such a way that i have to choose between being in "NBA hell" or being completely terrible (you know, the whole "if you're not great then just suck terribly until you are great" mindset) i'll take my entertaining basketball team that i can look forward to watching, while knowing they're probably going to lose to lebron because that's how basketball works.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2000_NBA_draft and while that's an extreme example of a bad draft, the point is that there aren't superstars in every draft (far from it) and when there is ONE, plenty of teams are trying to get him and you have to actually win the lotto to get him. those odds aren't worth it to me. not investing years of suckage for those odds. can't really agree on williams either. didn't see near enough from him his first year to think anything like that.

This isn't baseball or football. You don't have a shot at a title as long as you are decent and get into the playoffs. I can't remember the last time I saw more than 2 teams as legit title contenders, maybe 3. If you luck into a great player and win titles, that's cool and all, but it's a damn near impossible thing to set out to do. Especially with a cap on player salaries. They don't come around in the draft all that often (that's an understatement) and the financial advantages a big market should have don't matter. You know what really sucks? Winning 15 games and then drafting Marcus Fizer or some horsefeathers. And then winning 15 games again. And again. And again. Going years without being interested in the team after 2 or 3 games.

i have to laugh when even the trademark tree over the top fatalism thread can't be real fatalism

:( :( :(

for a 14th pick, i like valentine from what i've seen. but i really don't know much about college players. like his size and seems to be a good 3 point shooter.

also, as for this part, his value on the trade market is fairly absolute and not really determined by what he's worth to us (even if you think he's worth less to us). if we trade him, we need to get appropriate value in return. not a 5th pick in a weak draft. not if your aim is to bottom out. the bulls could probably get a player that will help them next year better than dunn but if you get someone with butler's approximate, current value you flirt with .500 and pick in the late lottery again. so your argument is intentionally avoid an adequate/appropriate return so you can be extra bad? like if two teams were making offers and one of them was clearly better (and made you better in the near term), you don't take that one so you don't flirt with .500 and pick late in the lottery?

come on KB willson...do this so stropy and hector can come in and finish it

[expletive]. I don't like not being fond of him, Paxson and, to a lesser degree, Cartwright. my hatred for cartwright runs deep

i mean if that's what they actually got at 14 in a bad draft, that wouldn't be terrible

I mostly do too but the first thing you need to win a title is a super duper star. The Bulls don't have one. If they believe Dunn has a chance to be one you have a lottery ticket and with the trade you probably suck enough to have a second one. That said you can get more value than this, likely at the deadline. But you have to get a superstar. Until then the Bulls are just treading water. None of them are going to sign here and you don't have the assets to trade for one so its gotta be in the draft. is winning a title really the only goal? winning a title is a pipe dream for 90% of the league every season. i want a team that i enjoy watching over the winter. if you luck into an MJ or LBJ, then that's gravy. what i don't want is to have a crap ass team for years with nothing to show for it, which is what really happens when most basketball teams tank. and if/when they do come out of it, they almost always end up in so-called "nba hell" all over again.

also, as for this part, his value on the trade market is fairly absolute and not really determined by what he's worth to us (even if you think he's worth less to us). if we trade him, we need to get appropriate value in return. not a 5th pick in a weak draft.

GRANDPA ROSSY!!!

getting a superduper star is a pipe dream. i'll take jimmy, put a squad around him, and watch entertaining basketball for the next few years instead of tanking for the generational player that never comes.

what? he's a great value especially with the new cap i'm very confused. your post could almost not have been more wrong.

[tweet] [/tweet]

yes absolutely. especially in the nba when like 2 specific teams who have 2 specific players are the only ones really competing for a title

what? he's a great value especially with the new cap

feel like it says a lot that 80% of the posters on realgm who wanted to tank and trade butler are freaking out in a bad way about this possible trade

Why? because that would've been a really bad trade and they turned it down

[tweet] [/tweet] i'm starting to feel sick. we are going to get our asses handed to us.

terrible opinion that you should feel terrible for having

HOLY horsefeathering horsefeathers JAVY!

if it's true that it was minnesota who turned down dunn and lavine for butler, i am very scared of this. [tweet] [/tweet]