Larry Horse

I really don't think there's a realistic chance the Cubs will win the Wildcard.

Jim Essian

There's only one thing to be taken from this entire sequence of quotes: "Don't ask me". That's all you need to know about Dusty.

It's interesting you have "Play Cedeno" in bold letters. Who's fault is it that we have no idea if Cedeno could be an everyday SS? Who's fault is it when Remlinger is brought in yet again against a lefty to give up a hit? How about continuing to start "Holly" when he's hitting .250? How about never trying a squeeze play when the O is struggling? Oh I forgot, "My guys don't bunt" another Dusty excuse. Yeah, tonight is all on the players, but no way is Dusty getting off easy in my book for this teams failures. The items I paranthesized are examples of excuses given by Dusty, not the fans.

If you're talking about Dusty with this question, the answer is never. It's all about the blame game with Dusty. (Heat, cold, fans, media....etc.)

I'm sorry I must have missed the "No pessimists allowed" memo. Who is saying you're not allowed here? You keep reading negativity into what I am writing. The quoted comment communicates that I think your opinions in this thread were some of the most pessimistic I've ever read on this board. It said nothing about whether you should be allowed to express them. That was your doing. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I can only go by what I have seen out of Nomar, which isn't much. The fact that he has played in 65 games in one year, coupled with the fact he is getting older, would leave me to believe that he's not very dependable. Good, thank you for being honest. Thats all I'm saying. You are seeing only the negative about Nomar. You are not seeing that he has come back from injuries several times in the past and played hundreds of games before getting injured again. Is it accurate to say that Nomar is injury prone? Of course. Is it accurate to say that because he was recently injured that he will likely only be able to play a few games before getting injured again? No. There is no logic or statistical fact that shows that is his pattern. The stats show that he will play the majority of the games the rest of the season. Well, I'm not sure what point I proved for you. You choose to look at it positively and I don't. If that's your point, then my whole post proves that point. Wow, I refuse to believe that you can't read that paragraph and the rest of the post that it came from and figure out what I meant. You are obviously intelligent. Clearly, what I was saying was that the opinions you were expressing were based solely on the negative things that had happened to the Cubs this season and the examples I gave in my response were balanced, including both the successes and failures the Cubs have had this season. But I seriously doubt that I needed to spell that out for you. I think you just didn't want to give me the experience of having made a valid point. I think you chose to play dumb instead of admit that your opinions were based on mainly just the negative. And I don't know why you wouldn't want to admit that. There is no shame in being a pessimist. You are a Cubs fan, after all. You've earned the right. But it still doesn't change the fact that a pessimist's opinion is by definition ignoring the positive factors that exist as well. Sounds strangely like another personal comment...... No, I'm just saying, once again, that your arguments weren't balanced out with the positive side. You must think it is a bad thing to be a pessimist and that if someone accuses you of being one that it is some sort of personal attack. I don't think that. I think that Cubs fans have earned the right to be pessimists, if they so choose. And there is nothing wrong with making that choice. All I'm saying is that the opinions you expressed earlier in this thread were not balanced out by any of the positive data thats out there, thats all. I can't, I can just go by what I've seen. I haven't seen Nomar play a full year, so until he does I'll assume he won't, and I haven't seen Kerry pitch a full season since '03, so I'll assume he can't until I'm proven otherwise. There are two problems with what you said about Nomar. One is that he isn't going to be playing a full season this year. We already know that. No one is debating that. What you said was because he was recently injured that it is likely that he will only play a few games before getting injured again. Thats what we are debating. Also, do you only believe things that you have personally seen with your own eyes? You may not have seen him "play a full year" but he has several times as recently as 2003 and 2002. And no one is trying to make you believe that Kerry Wood is going to "pitch a full season" this year. Only that the real possibility exists that he can give the Cubs some help out of the bullpen for the remainder of the season. And, again, I'm not even asking you to change your opinion, only to acknowledge that the opinions you expressed early in this thread were based mainly on the negative. Sorry, I've been a Cubs fan for longer than 30 years and I'm not a pessimist, so that doesn't help explain your negativity in regards to the Cubs. Its not like having been a Cubs fan for the last 30 years makes someone a pessimist. Its a choice. But I have no problem with anyone making that choice. And, clearly, there are plenty of reasons to do so. I also see plenty of reasons not to do so, but thats just me. Nice post, Win. We'll agree to disagree, and I would LOVE to eat some crow or humble pie or whatever else is served up.

I'm sorry I must have missed the "No pessimists allowed" memo. Well yes, that is my point. I don't expect great things out of a guy who hasn't even played half of a year since being acquired. Yes, that is exactly what I'm saying. I can only go by what I have seen out of Nomar, which isn't much. The fact that he has played in 65 games in one year, coupled with the fact he is getting older, would leave me to believe that he's not very dependable. Well, I'm not sure what point I proved for you. You choose to look at it positively and I don't. If that's your point, then my whole post proves that point. Yes, Wood can be dominant. The key is "can be". Can Kerry would stay healthy for an extended period of time? I would have to say no. And Dempster, absolutely great pickup, also coming off of arm surgery. But as Fox proved, it really isn't wise to count on those type of guys to save your bullpen. Nice how you threw in "But seriously", because I would have sworn that was a personal attack, which I thought wasn't allowed. How I look at that is this way: Great bench player in Hollandsworth, struggles as a starter. GM brings up Murton, who after 6 games is batting .250 (which is what the guy who he replaced has batted for the whole year, so what could starting him hurt) but starts to put up good numbers when he plays. Now, Cubs Win, would you stick Holly back in or leave Murton out there until he no longer proves he should be? Of course I had no idea how he would perform, that's why he should have been starting, then maybe Lawton wouldn't have had to have been traded for, which was my point. Same with Cedeno. Cub fans know what Holly and Perez can do, how much worse could Cedeno and Murton do? That is my point. That isn't being "brilliant", it's just common sense. Sounds strangely like another personal comment...... I can't, I can just go by what I've seen. I haven't seen Nomar play a full year, so until he does I'll assume he won't, and I haven't seen Kerry pitch a full season since '03, so I'll assume he can't until I'm proven otherwise. I've been a Cubs fan for almost 30 years. They have made the playoffs 3 times and never been in a World Series in that span. Maybe that explains my negativity in regards to the Cubs.

Alex Gonzalez - plays 3rd for the Devil Rays, so no he doesn't really play :lol: Francis Beltran - had elbow surgery so won't pitch this season Brendan Harris - AAA Justin Jones - High A Nomar Garciaparra - has played in 65 games since being acquired Matt Murton - has a hard time seeing the field despite great numbers Lee and ARam - great pickups, unfortunately there are 7 other positions, in which I would say RF, 2B, CF, LF and probably SS have no long range answers. Now if our current manager, who was hired by Hendry, had a brain in his head, he would have stuck Cedeno at SS, not started "Holly" so much due to the fact his career is coming to a close, stuck Murton in LF and play the rest of the year out, and the Cubs could have seen if they had 2 future starters. We're not talking about the dismantling of a dynasty here. CubinNY is correct. Lawton is an upgrade over Gerut, but does it really solve anything? There is really no trade Hendry could have made that would have put this team in line for a title, so it's just whistling in the wind. (Is that cliche correct?) Larry Horse, it appears you are only seeing the negative side of things. If all Nomar is to you is a guy who "has played 65 games since being acquired" (nevermind that the important thing is that he is about to add to that number), then I guess the Cubs offense won't improve much in your mind. If all Murton is to you is a guy who "has a hard time seeing the field" (nevermind that he has seen action in 16 of the 17 games since being called up and started 10 of those 17), then I guess the Cubs offense won't improve much in your mind. And, of course the trade for Lawton by itself isn't likely to "solve anything", but as has been said several times now, that isn't the only change that is happening. The Cubs bullpen is likely getting a boost as well. The Cubs offense should improve in the last two months if you believe in statistics. How much it will improve is going to be determined by the players on the field. Here is hoping that they do well. I choose to believe in them because the numbers I see tell me I should. Cubs Win, it appears you may be more of an optimist than I am. Am I making a fact up that Nomar has only played in 65 games? The Cubs have not improved all that greatly since acquiring him. Should I now count on him to somehow provide a miracle " boost " to this club? I guess Nomar can now be penciled in as the starting SS for the rest of the year? I would love to think so, except for the fact he has only played in 65 games in the last year. That is a stat I can't ignore. And what about the "boost" to the bullpen? Williamson and Wood? Williamson hasn't pitched since last year (another stat I can't ignore) and is coming off elbow surgery (repeat above parantheses) , and Wood has been so dependable as a starter that he is now in the bullpen after another trip to the DL (repeat above parantheses) and should probably be shut down and have his shoulder scoped, so they can finally find out what is wrong with his arm. (Not a fact, JMHO). And the last reliever coming off of elbow surgery? Chad Fox, who if I'm not mistaken blew his elbow out again. In my post I said that Murton should have been starting this entire time, which from "the numbers I see" say he should have been, and maybe wouldn't have neccesitated a trade for Lawton. Now the one guy who has put up decent numbers will probably be riding the bench or sent down. I think the point you missed was that the Cubs offense would have been better, if the buffoon manager hadn't insisted on keeping Holly fresh. So I will continue "seeing the negative side of things" until proven otherwise.

As will I NY. Crow would be a dish I would gladly eat for a title.

Alex Gonzalez - plays 3rd for the Devil Rays, so no he doesn't really play :lol: Francis Beltran - had elbow surgery so won't pitch this season Brendan Harris - AAA Justin Jones - High A Nomar Garciaparra - has played in 65 games since being acquired Matt Murton - has a hard time seeing the field despite great numbers Lee and ARam - great pickups, unfortunately there are 7 other positions, in which I would say RF, 2B, CF, LF and probably SS have no long range answers. Now if our current manager, who was hired by Hendry, had a brain in his head, he would have stuck Cedeno at SS, not started "Holly" so much due to the fact his career is coming to a close, stuck Murton in LF and play the rest of the year out, and the Cubs could have seen if they had 2 future starters. We're not talking about the dismantling of a dynasty here. CubinNY is correct. Lawton is an upgrade over Gerut, but does it really solve anything? There is really no trade Hendry could have made that would have put this team in line for a title, so it's just whistling in the wind. (Is that cliche correct?)

still waiting for the Dusty for Tracy trade to be announced............

Amen to Girardi, but IMHO Hendry would go with Little or Speier.

You said that much better than I did.

If we can pull a Pujols out of our system, I'll quit worrying about it. That's a pretty big score, IMHO. But, it's only one player. And I don't think the Cardinals really knew what they were getting when they signed him. I think it is important to develop from within. However, I don't think it's the be all, end all. If prospects like Bobby Hill and Matt Bruback can be included in a deal that nets Aramis Ramirez, I call it a major "SCORE". If Hee Seop Choi can be the centerpiece in the deal that lands Derrek Lee, "SCORE". If Brendan Harris and Justin Jones can net Nomar, "SCORE". While we don't currently have an everyday starter from the system, we have 3 guys listed above that we acquired in trade for guys from our system. How many of the Cardinals starting rotation came from their farm system? Matt Morris? The Cubs have Wood, Prior, Zambrano, Hill, Maddux and Mitre. In the pen, we have more guys who are from the farm. I think it's more important to develop pitching from the farm than position players. Both would be nice, but for some reason, pitching seems to be what the Cubs organization is better at developing. Sadly, I don't think you can count on trading for a starting third and first baseman when the need arises. The Cubs will eventually have to start developing these players. It took them 30 years to find a decent starting third baseman. And Nomar has played in 65 games since being traded for, I wouldn't qualify that as a "SCORE", more like a non-factor. Murton may be the key to that trade. As far as our pitchers. Wood-injury prone, Prior-stud in the making, also has some injury problems. Big Z-best of the bunch IMO, Hill-way too early to call on him, Maddux-had his best years elsewhere, Mitre-OK but nothing special. Here's a name we've heard about for years: Angel Guzman. Does he actually exist? Sure, you can point to the Cardinals as not having any home grown talent in their rotation, but that is nixed by the fact that they find guys like Marquis and Carpenter and Suppan who somehow turn it around and do the job.

Probably just trying to drive up the asking price as time runs out......

...with a bottle of scotch and his dog... lol...good one, Serena

If we can pull a Pujols out of our system, I'll quit worrying about it. That's a pretty big score, IMHO.

I want the Cubs to win the Series and I don't think a trade for Soriano or Manny would put them at that point. Now if it's a trade for next year and beyond, I'm all for it. Those 2 players make me very nervous.

No thanks on Soriano.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/baseball/cubs/chi-0507310050jul31,1,7663105.story?coll=chi-sportsnew-hed No Dusty, please don't go. Dusty would be perfect in LA. Fans don't boo much, leave in the 7th inning and the media is a bit less critical. Sounds like a good fit to me.

I'll never forget how Hendry said that Corey was a true 5 tool player and how many teams had inquired about trading for him while he was in the minors, but alas, he was untouchable. Another swing and miss by the Cubs regarding a star position player in the minors. Hopefully Pie will pan out, I would like to see at least 1 stud position player come through the system and contribute in the next five years. Corey and Kid DL, two sure fire studs that it seems have lost their trade value. Let's hope not. That seems a little harsh on the Cubs Front Office. Did you really think at the time, that they should have traded Corey before he even hit the majors? If you can't say yes to that, then you can't blame the Cubs for not doing it either. What about the 2003? He was having a great year, even getting mentioned for the All-Star Game. Don't get me wrong. As of right now, I want him gone. Whether or not he ever puts it together and becomes the star he could have been, I will always admit to loving him in '03 and hating him in '05 - regardless of how it turns out, I can't blame the Cubs. They kept him as long as they should have, and if they get minimum value for him, then so be it. Just Bad Luck. I don't think it's harsh because Corey is the biggest example of the problem. Hendry hung his hat on him for quite a while. I'm just puzzled how the Cubs have failed to have one good starting position player come to the big club in recent memory. When not one of your starting 8 didn't come through your system, I would say it's a little more than bad luck.

The Cards always seem to make the right trade or signing..........

I am not really in favor of Manny. Great run producer, but terrible contract and seems to be a bid on the odd side. I don't want to see another Sammy type situation in a few years. JMHO

It's on Comcast right now, and listening to Costas and Kubek makes me realize what hacks are on Fox.

I'll never forget how Hendry said that Corey was a true 5 tool player and how many teams had inquired about trading for him while he was in the minors, but alas, he was untouchable. Another swing and miss by the Cubs regarding a star position player in the minors. Hopefully Pie will pan out, I would like to see at least 1 stud position player come through the system and contribute in the next five years. Corey and Kid DL, two sure fire studs that it seems have lost their trade value. Let's hope not.