DivineBovine

The officials trying to even it out.

haha. Check out the Heat message board. Posts like this.

Keep this defense up and they will be so demoralized, they'll fold like a lawn chair.

How demoralizing this has to be for the Heat. Bulls can't make a shot and they are getting killed. EXCEPT THAT ONE!!

This will surely lead the Bulls to victory. I love it when MJ openly roots for the Bulls. Since he's an owner of another team, it might not happen tonight. But it would still be sweet to see. I'd think a true killer would lead the team he owns to victory rather than joining up with the owner of another team. Well, clearly LeBron would try and buy a piece of the Bulls from Reinsdorf. But this is MJ, so that didn't happen. :wink:

This will surely lead the Bulls to victory. I love it when MJ openly roots for the Bulls. Since he's an owner of another team, it might not happen tonight. But it would still be sweet to see. Do you think anyone would be mad if MJ openly rooted for a team he won 6 titles with if they werent playing the team he currently owns? I doubt it. Probably not, but some might find it a little unprofessional. MJ is good at keeping a certain public persona so I don't think he'd do it. But I remember he openly rooted for the Ben Gordon Bulls a few years ago, and he would probably love to see the Bulls beat the Heat.

This will surely lead the Bulls to victory. I love it when MJ openly roots for the Bulls. Since he's an owner of another team, it might not happen tonight. But it would still be sweet to see.

Oh man. What can I say? LOSER. Yeah, of course I'll get on him for that.

No. Definitely not writing off the Heat. If they win the championship, I'll start to give props to LeBron.

That is a completely, 180-degree, totally different argument than your statement that he isn't the best player in the league. Frankly, I'm inclined to agree with your revised statement. In basketball/the NBA, where one player is so influential, you really need to win a championship to be considered one of the upper-echelon greats. We should hold off on that until his career is more complete and he's won the titles he's going to win. That doesn't make him any less the current best player in the world though. OK, call it a 90 degree change. Maybe not a 180. But I'd definitely put Kobe ahead of LeBron in terms of career. And no, I don't believe Will Purdue had a better career than Patrick Ewing either.

Looking at rings as an individual achievement in a team sport is pointless and short-sighted, no matter what the team sport is (even baseball, which is as individual as a team sport can be). Well, I happen to think the same about looking at stats. This is not baseball where its 1 player against the pitcher. It's a team sport. I judge it the contribution the player makes to getting his team to win. I admit the flaws of looking at wins. But looking at the stats isn't perfect either. Look, its one thing if LeBron is playing on a crappy team. He teamed up with 2 all-stars. What's the excuse now? Oh yeah. Spoelstra and the bench. There will always be excuses until he wins, because of his gaudy stats. LeBron supporters will always have an excuse for him because they can't fathom how he's not one of the greatest of all time because the stats say so. But who says the stats are right? Hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And this is mine. He might well win multiple championships. I'm not saying he won't. But until then, he's not one of the all-time greats.

Wow. What an unpopular opinion I have. :-" Like I said. Show me the rings. If LeBron gets multiple rings, I'll acknowledge his greatness. Call it unfair if you like. But he teamed up with 2 all-stars and DWade who is probably one of the top 5 players in the league. The NBA has no dominant teams right now. If he doesn't win multiple rings, then there's no excuse. Maybe it will happen. But until it does, he's overrated in my mind.

Yeah, I'm serious. I think LeBron is overrated. If he wins rings, then I'll change my mind. And maybe I'm more arguing about his place in history, rather than at this very moment. Because I definitely think Kobe of 5 years ago is better than LeBron ever has been. It reminds me of the arguments I used to have with my friend from LA, MJ vs. Magic. And no matter how I cited stats, he always came back to rings. How MJ didn't have a ring. Well, it pissed me off. But I realized he was onto something. And MJ definitely proved himself over time.

Lebron takes less shots at the rim (Why are we looking down on this again?) than Derrick Rose. To go along with this he shoots at a better rate from every distance except 3 (0.2% advantage to Rose in eFG%) Was that a serious question? I never said DRose is better than LeBron. I was comparing him to Kobe and MJ. And its tough to compare a 6-8 forward to a 6-2 PG. But DRose is much better at driving to the basket. He makes more contested drives to the rim. There's no question who I'd rather have with the ball if you absolutely needed a basket. I know stats will always say that LeBron is the best player ever. But that was my whole point. I don't always buy the stats. If LeBron wins 5 or 6 championships, I'll change my mind. And yes, the shot question was a serious one. A lot of guys have developed a shot as their careers have gone on. A guy who is 6-8, has crazy strength and a crazy vertical, who is supposed to be the best player in basketball (and who many argue is the best of all time), should have a better shot. He's not a 6-2 PG who has to work a bit harder to get a shot.

The fact that he says 2 inches taller and 20 lbs heavier and they are similar gives the edge to LeBron. Runs circles around was probably a bit much, but LeBron is better athletically than Jordan was. Kobe is too. As for LeBron not improving his game, I think he's a better defender and shooter than he was 2 years ago. And when you're the best player in the league, any improvement is going to be looked at as marginal anyway. I disagree. LeBron can improve a lot of ways. And I'd argue that he's not the best player in the league. In terms of raw stats, maybe. I'm going to bring up the championship and wins argument like anyone else. It might be unfair, but I'll judge a player based on how well his team does. Because I don't think stats always tell the whole story in basketball. It was one thing when he was playing with Cleveland, which was actually a decent supporting cast. But now he's playing with 2 other all-stars. If he's so damn good, then the Heat should easily win the championship this year. But what if he doesn't? The LeBron apologists will point out the Heat have no bench, a crap coach. But LeBron apologists will make the assumption that he's the best player because of his stats, and assume that if he doesn't win it's not his fault. I'm the opposite. I'll judge him based on his team's performance, and conclude the stats are misleading if he doesn't win. To me, carrying the entire scoring load for your team in crunchtime when everyone knows you're shooting and nobody else is hitting shots is more important than a few fast break dunks, getting a few assists hitting an open shooter, or getting a rebound with nobody around you. No doubt about it, LeBron is one of the best rotisserie players in the history of basketball. No wonder Hollinger loves him so much. But is he necessarily the best? As for his improvement, LeBron can be a much better offensive player than he is. Jordan and Kobe were better players, IMO, because they could carry a team offensively. LeBron has no go to moves. A huge percentage of his offense is fast breaks and dunks. Michael and Kobe both developed a fadeaway jumper in the post. If LeBron could ever do that, he'd be unguardable. And why isn't his shot better? He can jump and shoot over anyone. But too bad he doesn't have killer instinct. I wouldn't really expect that from a guy who has been the most talented and most hyped guy at any level he played since he was 14.

That's a strong statement. He's 2 inches taller and 30 pounds heavier. Speed, quickness and jumping are similar, Jordan more graceful and nimble. Ridiculously strong in his own right. LeBron is faster and quicker than Jordan ever was. And Jordan didn't come in the NBA ridiculously strong like LBJ did. Since there's no measurables on this, I'm just going to continue to disagree based on how they look relative to other players when you watch on film. I'd agree that LeBron is more physically gifted than MJ. It's not a landslide, but I'd say so. LeBron has a lot of skills- namely his ballhandling and passing- but so much of his play is based on being bigger, stronger and faster than everyone else. He gets a lot of his rebounds, steals, blocks, and easy fast break baskets just because of his physical ability. But in terms of comparing the players, there's no comparison. Jordan was a far more skilled player. And a lot has to do with killer instinct. And by killer instinct, I don't mean crying if you lose or beating your chest when you win. I mean the willingness to work harder than everyone else and not accept losing. Think about how MJ developed the unguardable turnaround fadaway in the post as his career went on. Or developing a 3 point shot. That's killer instinct. Not joining 2 other all-stars and throwing a championship party in the summer. LeBron hasn't really improved his game in the past 3 years. That's what happens when you rely on overwhelming talent all your life.

yeah, i don't recall him getting many good looks at all. Yeah, I actually saw LeBron make a few outside shots that he usually doesn't make. The only shots he consistently makes is a dunk on a fastbreak.

WOW!!!!!

Overrated. Haha.

This is fun. :yahoo:

Who knew Bosh would have 30/8 at this point and the Bulls would be up 17.

Yeah. Get either Asik or Taj back in.

Finally, the Chris Bosh from last year showed up. The first scoring option on a losing team.

Wow Spo. Brilliant.

Bounds maybe. But not bounce!