dalgreen

I never said anything about the loss compared to any other(although losing to Colorado isn't nearly as bad as blowouts against ISU @ home or @ Baylor). Congratulations for being more thick skinned than most, but you have to understand you come off like a jerk when you pile on with hyperbole on a rival after a bad loss. A jerk? Right. Considering I haven't heard from Mizzou or any other posters other than you, I'll consider that's just you speaking out on emotion after a bad loss. I have no earthly idea why you took what I said so personal, I was being absolutely facetious when speaking of the death penalty, and I said Alden and Snyder should be fired --- not for just this year's crappy performance, but crappy performance over the year's and you took offense even though, as you stated, there are lots of people with the same opinion. I think Mizzou has four of the last six on the road, so I hope you're prepared. If Illinois loses at OSU on Sunday, I won't take the negative as personal unless what is said is false. That's when I take things personal. I'm not disagreeing with your points about Snyder or Alden, but you said something false about fans criticizing Alden, and then used that as your rationale to call Mizzou fans(of which I and several others on this site are) and Missouri media among the worst in the country. That's why I took offense. One thing I'm not sure you realize (and if you do, I apologize) is that I lived in St. Louis during Alden's tenure. Many people have excused him for the Ricky Clemons situation, the death of the football player last year (I forgot his name), the fact that his hires in football and basketball haven't done what fans thought when they were hired several years ago. I worked with and have several friends who are Mizzou alums who are just now beginning to finally criticize Alden (not to mention what crap I heard on St. Louis sports radio). In no way did I intend to say 100% of Mizzou fans think the same way, but the ones I know definitely do. All I heard from a lot of fans and alum after Mizzou hired Pinkel and Snyder was how they were going to bring the two programs to national prominence. Snyder did take a team to the elite eight, but even then they were just a 12-seed-- meaning they were one of the last at-large bids handed out. I still stand by my opinion that Mizzou fans are one of the worst in terms of expectations. Three years ago beating Nebraska in football shouldn't have gotten to the point where when you win you tear down the goal-posts. Even I, a Mizzou hater, thought two years ago with Brad Smith, that Mizzou would be participating in the Big 12 championship game before his eligibility was up and beating any Big 12 North team would be the norm.

They've lacked depth for several years now, I doubt they make it past the round of 16 once they lose the officiating edge they seem to enjoy in the regular season. And UNC ties it up. Part of the reason they lack depth is because they've lost a bunch of players to early entry, but you can't tell me thee's not some junior that can run that offense better that the kid who looks scared to death running it now. I dislike Duke as much as anyone, but I think you are being pretty hard on a kid who had seven assists tonight and is averaging over 5 per game this year (plus a steal and a half a game). Considering that Duke has only three vets and only one loss, I, like you, am finding it hard to believe the criticism that's being placed on Duke's freshmen. I'm an Illinois fan, and we have seniors who, at times, play as if they're freshmen.

I never said anything about the loss compared to any other(although losing to Colorado isn't nearly as bad as blowouts against ISU @ home or @ Baylor). Congratulations for being more thick skinned than most, but you have to understand you come off like a jerk when you pile on with hyperbole on a rival after a bad loss. A jerk? Right. Considering I haven't heard from Mizzou or any other posters other than you, I'll consider that's just you speaking out on emotion after a bad loss. I have no earthly idea why you took what I said so personal, I was being absolutely facetious when speaking of the death penalty, and I said Alden and Snyder should be fired --- not for just this year's crappy performance, but crappy performance over the year's and you took offense even though, as you stated, there are lots of people with the same opinion. I think Mizzou has four of the last six on the road, so I hope you're prepared. If Illinois loses at OSU on Sunday, I won't take the negative as personal unless what is said is false. That's when I take things personal.

Many people want Alden fired. Have some tact, you know there's several Mizzou fans on here. If I offended your university, I apologize, but please tell me where I lack tact. I call them as I see them. Like I said, consider the audience. After U of I lost to Penn State, it would be "calling them like I see them" to make fun of the fans rushing the court, pointing out how long it's been since Penn St. beat a ranked team(or a conference team on the road), how Dee Brown isn't that great a shooter, etc. But I know there's a lot of Illini fans here, and they were pissed about that loss. Mizzou just got blown out by Baylor, the fans are pissed, and are just waiting out the season until Snyder is fired(no one fires a college coach midseason). Ripping the university(death penalty to the program?), and more importantly it's fans right after the loss is pretty inconsiderate. What?! If you read anything I wrote in the Big Ten thread I would agree with anyone who (and I was ripping Brown, Augustine,etc) criticized or made fun of Illinois. It makes little sense to get on a sports message board and not call a spade a spade. Quin Snyder and Mizzou's basketball program is a joke. Just as anyone calling Augustine and Brown leaders is a joke. Using an analogy, I guess it was wrong for some to criticize Hendry, Baker, Patterson, et al for last season's performance, huh? You think a Cardinal fan coming here and trashing the organization at the end of the '04 season would have made friends? No one wants to hear an opposing fan ripping your team after a bad loss, especially non-factual hyperbole like "Mizzou's basketball program should be given the death penalty", and "why fans don't call for Alden's head is another example of why I think Mizzou fans and the Missouri media are some of the worst in college athletics." Unfortunately, it seems you've fallen into the Mizzou fan trap. You mean to tell me this loss was that much worst than getting blown out at home against Iowa State or losing at home to Colorado? I said pretty much the same thing after those losses. And, no, I'm not as sensitive as others when Cardinal fans make statements like we choke when we did in 2004. Oh, yes, I was using hyperbole when I said Mizzou's b-ball program should be given the death penalthy for losing by 26 to Baylor. Then again, and you wouldn't know this, I said the same things after Illinois' loss to Penn State and Wisconsin's loss to ND State. But then this is your first year at Mizzou, so you haven't been frustrated with the program for the last few years.

Many people want Alden fired. Have some tact, you know there's several Mizzou fans on here. If I offended your university, I apologize, but please tell me where I lack tact. I call them as I see them. Like I said, consider the audience. After U of I lost to Penn State, it would be "calling them like I see them" to make fun of the fans rushing the court, pointing out how long it's been since Penn St. beat a ranked team(or a conference team on the road), how Dee Brown isn't that great a shooter, etc. But I know there's a lot of Illini fans here, and they were pissed about that loss. Mizzou just got blown out by Baylor, the fans are pissed, and are just waiting out the season until Snyder is fired(no one fires a college coach midseason). Ripping the university(death penalty to the program?), and more importantly it's fans right after the loss is pretty inconsiderate. What?! If you read anything I wrote in the Big Ten thread I would agree with anyone who (and I was ripping Brown, Augustine,etc) criticized or made fun of Illinois. It makes little sense to get on a sports message board and not call a spade a spade. Quin Snyder and Mizzou's basketball program is a joke. Just as anyone calling Augustine and Brown leaders is a joke. Using an analogy, I guess it was wrong for some to criticize Hendry, Baker, Patterson, et al for last season's performance, huh?

Many people want Alden fired. Have some tact, you know there's several Mizzou fans on here. If I offended your university, I apologize, but please tell me where I lack tact. I call them as I see them.

They've lacked depth for several years now, I doubt they make it past the round of 16 once they lose the officiating edge they seem to enjoy in the regular season. And UNC ties it up. I disagree. They get an officiating edge in the tourney as well. But that goes with the coach. Indiana got a lot of calls when Knight was the coach, UNC got a lot of calls when Smith was the coach, and Kentucky got a lot of calls when Pitino was the coach.

From one of the biggest Mizzou haters on the planet, Mizzou's basketball program should be given the death penalty for losing by 26 to Baylor. Baylor's season just started over a month ago and that piss-poor coach Quin Snyder continues to show that he has incriminating evidence against Mike Alden. Why else would the AD continue to let this guy coach? I hate Mizzou, but this is ridiculous and why fans don't call for Alden's head is another example of why I think Mizzou fans and the Missouri media are some of the worst in college athletics. I do love that they're are a bad team, but it's almost comical now.

There's no need to make any other excuses other than, 1) this team doesn't have a veteran leader; 2) Augustine still hasn't learned not to get into foul trouble; 3) if we had an inside game we could sustain cold outside shooting; 4) you should never blow a 16 point lead at home. Penn State never quit and we did. Penn State deserved the win. Now Illinois' meltdown last Saturday makes Sunday's game at OSU a "must" win if they want to win the Big Ten. Seriously, where's the on-floor leadership?

Last time I checked, Augestine is a senior now. Yeah I am aware. I am also aware he has cost us a national championship with his disappearing act. You would think a senior would play better than that. Every game in the last three years we have lost was because he was in foul trouble. Every single one. Oh please, it wasn't only his fault that we lost the NC game. And don't give me that crap about him being the fault we have lost every game in the last three years. That's not true and you know it. James Augustine was a cause in us losing the national championship game but not the cause. Shooting 27% in the first half was the cause of us losing the national championship. Augustine is really not better now than he was his sophomore year and I'm somewhat of an Augustine fan. He will go down, in my opinion, with Richard Keene and Larry Smith as the biggest Illinois basketball underachievers. Anybody who doesn't think Illinois' success rests largely on Augustine being on the floor, hasn't watched Illinois basketball, particularly the Wisconsin game. And as I told people at the beginning of the season, Dee Brown is not a leader. He's a good player and the best interview, but he's not a leader. Yeah, I miss Williams, Head and Powell, but, honestly, I think we might be undefeated (at most one loss) if we had Jack "the most underrated player last year" Ingram.

The Cardinals don't suck, but St. Louis does. That's why you live in Chicago, right? :D I moved from St. Louis to Topeka, KS. That should tell you what I thought of St. Louis.

In my opinion, Pat is the PBP and color analyst. Ron is along to provide the entertainment and to make fans feel like they have a friend in the booth. Santo might be great for entertainment, but is a horrible color analyst. He has gotten a little bit better in not letting his stories go on through a big pitch or a big hit. But, to me, Pat is the PBP and color guy.

There are a lot of them in the Big Ten. Weber, Davis, Ryan, Izzo and Monson are all pretty bad. I don't think there's anyone who can work the refs and get more calls than Izzo though. I don't know the age of some of you, but that's been a trademark for coaches in the Big Ten for years.......Dutcher, Heathcoate, Henson, Knight, Frieder, Keady.......

You're right, McBride was awesome. I have no problem stating I was wrong when players show up who I thought wouldn't. These last two games have been the best that I've seen McBride play. Yeah, I know he was a role player for the last two seasons, but I don't know why it took him half the season before he decided to become more aggressive. He's also a much better defender this year. Great game by McBride. Props to Jamar Smith and Brian Randle, too. As for James Augustine, why hasn't he figured out that when he's not on the floor due to foul trouble he kills us? It's not necessarily the number of fouls that ticks me off it's the kind of fouls that ticks me off. It's the unnecessary fouls. I'm just glad he wasn't called for his third (which it was an offensive foul) in the early part of the second half. All I know is we better be blowing teams out by the end of the game because if it comes down to FT shooting, we might be in trouble.

he's put on some serious muscle in the offseason. he might be lean, but he's strong enough to play straight up against tucker. plus he's taller than tucker, which should also account for something. Plus he has crazy length, his arms are ridiculous. Should be a good match-up. If Randle can avoid cheap fouls I really like our chances. Hopefully Rich McBride keeps playing like he did against Purdue so Dee doesn't have to try to do everything. I've pretty much given up on Rich McBride. I think we've seen pretty much what we're going to get this year and next from him. As I've mentioned before, he looks great in Champaign vs. bad teams, and tonight he'll likely once again put on his disappearing act. We've got to play well, particularly Pruitt and Randle. We have to hope we just wear down the thinned out Badgers. These two teams might combine for about 45 first half points. I like our chances in this game vs. the games in Columbus, Ann Arbor and East Lansing.

the MVC is very very good this year...they should get 4 teams in the big dance this year in UNI, SIU, Creighton, and Wichita St. I would not have been that embarassed to lose to UNI, they are going to win at least one game in the tourny this year...mark it down. I'm not really that bummed about it, since they do have a pretty darn good team. Plus, it was on their home court, went to OT, and Horner was injured. The frustrating part is that we just can't seem to beat them in Cedar Falls. They are very good, I am glad we don't have to go to SIU every other year. Now playing tham at a nuetral court or at home would be ok. i hope SIU can play Illinois at least once in Carbondale in the next 4 years when I'm down there. Of course, I'd rather see them face each other in the national championship game this year :wink: I highly doubt that happens. Perhaps the biggest criticism I have with my alma mater is their reluctance to play the top basketball schools in Illinois. We refused to play DePaul in the 80's, and pretty much refuse to play SIU even in a home and home series. We did play Bradley a few years ago in Peoria, but I think that was only because of Frank Williams and Sergio McClain were from there. I may be a cynic, but I don't think the MVC is any stronger this year than previous years. They'll likely send one team to the sweet sixteen, which they've done in the past, but I don't see any more than that.

Robinson, Chlamers, and Rush are a prety solid three-headed monster. Chalmers in particular is a menace on both ends of the court. If there's one thing to say about this KU squad, they're never dull to watch. I've never seen a more bipolar team. Look great one -second, look completely inept five mnutes later. a 13 point lead with two-minutes left is still nerve-wracking. Still, I'm really starting to like them. And I'm looking forward to the rematches w/ KSU and MU. I've been telling some KU fans at work that this year kind of reminds me of Bill Self's first year at Illinois when he had a young team. They stunk for the first three and a half months of the season and finished last in the Big Ten, but won their last few regular season Big Ten games and as the bottom seed made it all the way to the Big Ten championship game only to get blown out by the eventual national champs Michigan State. I said all of that to say this, KU will be fine this year. I heard that Micah Downs left school because he missed his girlfriend back home. I know he wasn't getting a lot of playing time, but knowing Bill Self from Illinois I bet he wasn't doing anything in practice. That's really the only time you get in his dog house.

Unless you are Texas, or the opponent is Baylor, there's no team in the Big 12 that can say they "have no buisness losing to" on the road. The teams are just too close to each other. If Texas wins tonight, there's only going to be two teams besides them with less than 3 conference losses. That's 8 teams hodgepodged with 3 or 4 conference losses. That said, the last 3 games have sucked for Mizzou. Hopefully they can get up for the Texas game. For clarification, I said, ".....probably had no business losing to..." and I still stand by it. Yes, I know the game isn't played on paper, but Mizzou has more talent than Nebraska and I bet looking back two weeks ago you thought that winning at Nebraska was something more probable than possible. I don't see Nebraska just being down right unbeatable at home this year. If Mizzou could beat OU in Norman, why wouldn't you consider yesterday's loss a game Mizzou probably should've won?

Well, once again, Mizzou loses to a team they probably had no business losing to. Don't get me wrong, I hate Mizzou almost, almost as much as I hate the Cardinals, but I'm frustrated with talented players underachieving with Boy Wonder at the helm. I'm glad Tommy Ammaker's team is doing fine otherwise Snyder may make it harder for any other Duke assistant to get a job. As I said when Ammaker left Seton Hall for Michigan, his teams will do fine. It seems the NCAA infractions are now behind them so he's getting players and developing them. Something Snyder seems to have little concept of. By the way, it seems KU has finally learned to shoot the ball. They look like they're ready to go on a nice run. Winning in Ames isn't an easy thing to do.

Losing in Ann Arbor won't be as painful since they don't have to go to Champaign nor Bloomington. Depending on what Wisconsin does, losing four Big Ten games may win the confence. I just think it is going to be tough for Wisconsin the rest of the way and I don't think I would consider them the frontrunners, even with the schedule. When you go from a 10 man rotation down to a 7 man rotation I just think it is going to hurt them against Iowa, Mich St., Indiana, Ohio St, and Michigan. I think there home court advantage disappears somewhat due to the lack of depth too, and they have some tough home games against 4 of those teams. I'm looking forward to the game Tuesday night. You're right, going to a 7-man rotation isn't good for any team. I still say if Illinois can score 65+ points a game for the rest of the season we'll go deep in the tourney. The problem is we are a horrible free throw shooting team. The Kohl Center should be hopping Tuesday night.

Losing in Ann Arbor won't be as painful since they don't have to go to Champaign nor Bloomington. Depending on what Wisconsin does, losing four Big Ten games may win the confence.

Leaving at half was one of the best moves I ever made. I'm curious to see how long Alden will stay with Snyder. I'll say the same thing I said when Snyder was hired..... how many wannabe top tier programs hire a guy who has never been a head coach at any level? Any truth to the rumor that Snyder is dating Paige Laurie? I heard that before I left St. Louis.

Yeah, let the teams IU beat keep winning (except Illinois, not knocking U of I but I want them to lose because we have a sure loss coming in Assembly Hall Jr.) It wouldn't surprise me if Minnesota beats Indiana in Minneapolis. I'm not saying it's going to happen, but it wouldn't surprise me. I haven't looked at Michigan State's schedule, but they've already done something that I don't think Illinois will do - beat OSU in Columbus. In fact, if Pruitt and Randall continue to underachieve, I can see the Illini with at least four more Big Ten losses.

Randall is the most talented and gifted player on the Illini. He is very frustrating at times. I have to keep telling myself that this is really his first full season, although he did play rather sparingly in the 2003-3004 season. I'm still not so sure why Weber named him one of the captains, though. And what is with Richard McBride's poor shooting this year? He hasn't been able to bury the three like he has in the past.

Hawk, it's all good. As I said, I enjoy a good razzing as much as anyone. After all, at least you're not a Mizzou fan. Yep, you're right, Illini fans will talk basketball during football season -- I was just hoping you didn't know that. I'm not a huge Zook fan, but you have to remember just about anyone would be better than Ron Turner. I don't put much stock into any coach at Florida, Miami, Florida State, ND, Texas, etc. being a good recruit since those programs don't really have to recruit -- the program sells itself. But maybe, just maybe, even with the talent Zook had at Florida, competing against the talent of LSU, Auburn, Tennessee and Florida St. I can't fault any coach losing 3-5 games a year with that annual schedule. I still think winning six games next year is not out of the question.