don_kessinger_was_good

I see the Cubs trading for a #4 starter and a veteran LOOGY this offseason; Ohman is let go. Marquis and Marshall will compete with Hart and Gallagher for the #5 starter spot in Arizona. Prior is the wild card/bonus if he makes it back by mid-season. Whichever or both of Hart and Gallagher don't make it, they'll go to AAA no problem. I see the Marquis/Marshall loser as trade bait. And at 12-9, mid 4's ERA, 190 IP I think the Cubs can move Marquis if they want to in this pitching depleted league. Mets will need several starting pitchers this offseason as one example. They gave up value for El Duque, so don't snicker, it could happen. I really hope Dempster is sent packing, he just isn't good enough. Seems like a swell guy, but we have several better options. Like other posts here, I'd love to see Wood take over the 7th inning job, Howry kept in the 8th, and Marmol promoted to closer for 2008. Lou loves Howry though, if he wanted to go Marmol 8th and Howry to close, I could live with that, too.

If that's my team, I'd bat Lee 2nd, Soto 5th and DeRosa 6th. For your RF, there's no way Floyd is back, and Jones should get dumped, too. I'm hoping for a Marshall, Murton, Veal and Patterson trade for Miggy Cabrera to round out that lineup there, but that's just me. ;-) I'd put him 5th and move Soto and DeRo down a spot. Seriously, the Fish are in awful shape (again), Cabrera could get moved this winter in the right deal. I want in on that, he is criminally underrated because of toiling in Miami. Given his age, I might even want him more than A-Rod.

Kendall has shown enough that I'd be satisfied if he were brought back next year as Soto's backup. Kendall can still make good contact and has a good eye at the plate. He seems to call a good game, too, pitchers haven't been complaining and have been doing well. He has no pop, I can live with that for a #8 hitter. His arm is admittedly a problem, but for a guy that only starts 35 games a year? I can live with it. He seems to have a great "old school" attitude too, I like that.

1. Danny Jackson 2. Mel Rojas 3. Fred McGriff 4. LaTroy Hawkins 5. Steve Swisher

If he's ready to accept such a role, I have no problem bringing back Kendall as Soto's backup. Good insurance policy in case something happens to the kid or he regresses. If Hendry tells Kendall up-front he's being signed as a backup and pinch hitter, will start around 40 games or so max, and Kendall is OK with that--then re-sign him, sure. Kendall has no pop and a lousy arm. But, he calls a good game, and he can still get on base just fine. Makes contact, good eye, a fine #7 or #8 hitter in a lineup. And you certainly don't want Soto to get overused like the Dodgers have done with Russel Martin. Kendall 1-year deal, $1.5MM or so? I'm in.

I agree. And my guess is that Marshall will be heading somewhere for a bat and the Cubs will fill the 5th starter job among Gallagher/Mateo/Prior/et. al., with the expectation that Samardzija could be brought up sometime during the season. Having three lefties in the rotation was undesirable from the beginning, but the Cubs had no choice this year. Next year, they will, so I agree Marshall is as good as gone. Were the Cubs to package him with someone like Murton, they could/should get a quality bat in exchange. Maybe throw in a lower-level/perceived high ceiling guy like Atkins, and go get Tejada or Renteria? I'd support that.

Whether Ryan Theriot is a net positive or negative as a starter at SS might be moot soon, considering that this winter any or all of Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada and Edgar Renteria, at a minimum, should be available for teams to pursue. I'd be plenty pleased to keep Theriot as my utility infielder though, no argument on that.

Marmol please.

The Nomar trade doesn't look quite as innocent as it once did. Harris is no star, and at 27 he's no longer a kid, either. But he's become a full-time starter in Tampa--which is more than Matt Murton has managed in Chicago--and his numbers match up well with Ryan Theriot at SS. Similar BA and OBP, Harris has better power, Theriot has (much) more speed and better defense. If the trade were viewed at this point as Harris for Murton, I think it would be a wash. With the benefit of hindsight, scratch one from Hendry's victory column. FYI, Francis Beltran was 2-9 with an ERA of nearly 5 and BAA of 300 (with 8 saves) in AAA this year; he will be 28 this fall. Justin Jones was 11-8 with a 3.72 ERA (though 1.40 WHIP, 282 BAA and just 87 K's in 121 IP) in split time between high-A and AA. He won't turn 23 until the end of this month. Beltran is now in the Orioles system and Jones is with the Nats.

If he can get it down to around 0.5 BB/IP, he'll be fine. Bob Feller had a BB/IP rate of nearly 0.5 for much of his career. Our own Carlos Zambrano is similarly at nearly 0.5. You can argue that a reliever is death with a high walk rate, but I don't see the comparison if a guy starts his own inning as Ceda usually does. He needs to improve his control some, but he has plenty of time to figure it out.

That would be tough, since Cherry is now with Baltimore (re: Trachsel trade). I think it is safe to presume that the Cubs felt Roquet made Cherry expendable--same kind of pitchers, at similar levels of the organization, but Roquet is younger and doesn't have the injury history that Cherry has had. Hard to see Roquet with an upside beyond a Michael Wuertz-type role at best, but that has some modest degree of value to the organization (or in trade). This gets me on a related but different topic that I would like to expand on at some point. For all the grief we give the Cubs organization, and for all the (at times) over-emotional attachment many put on our minor leaguers, the fact is the Cubs have been SUPERB judges of their own organizational talent throughout this decade. I made a list, I'll post it some other time, but it's amazing just how FEW mistakes the Cubs have made in this area. Point being, at this stage if the Cubs feel someone like a Rocky Cherry or Scott Moore is expendable, I tend to give the brass the benefit of the doubt. In regards to your first part, I think Roquet has a higher ceiling than Wuertz so I think he could be more of a set-up 8th inning guy (unless that's what you view Wuertz's upside). He has a better, harder FB than Wuertz and a similarly good slider (though they both give up too many HRs for my liking). IMO, Wuertz has better stuff than Dempster and if given the chance, he could at least be a quality pre-setup (7th inning) man. Cubs for some reason have never shown a lot of faith in him. It hurts his effectiveness, because like Howry, Wuertz seems to be a guy that pitches better when he pitches often. I would love to see the Cubs trade Dempster in the offseason, give the closer's spot to Marmol, and then use Wuertz as the 7th inning guy, but I don't expect it to happen. Especially since I think there is zero chance they bring Kerry Wood back, and the thinking will be that they need to keep Dempster and Wuertz in their current roles in the interest of "bullpen depth." Guh.

That would be tough, since Cherry is now with Baltimore (re: Trachsel trade). I think it is safe to presume that the Cubs felt Roquet made Cherry expendable--same kind of pitchers, at similar levels of the organization, but Roquet is younger and doesn't have the injury history that Cherry has had. Hard to see Roquet with an upside beyond a Michael Wuertz-type role at best, but that has some modest degree of value to the organization (or in trade). This gets me on a related but different topic that I would like to expand on at some point. For all the grief we give the Cubs organization, and for all the (at times) over-emotional attachment many put on our minor leaguers, the fact is the Cubs have been SUPERB judges of their own organizational talent throughout this decade. I made a list, I'll post it some other time, but it's amazing just how FEW mistakes the Cubs have made in this area. Point being, at this stage if the Cubs feel someone like a Rocky Cherry or Scott Moore is expendable, I tend to give the brass the benefit of the doubt.

Ceda is an animal. I love him. When the bandwagon starts, I'm on board. Jose reminds me of Armando Benitez when Armando Benitez was good. If he gets his control even a LITTLE bit better, he'll be in the big league bullpen on opening day 2009. You just don't find intimidating relievers every day. Whoever mentioned Burke, I almost regarded him as someone that really helped himself, but I discounted based on his half-season. Agreed though that the upside is there--and he can always pitch later if the hitting doesn't work out (re: Marmol). Finally, has anyone heard any further hints about Harvey being switched to pitching over the winter to try and salvage something out of his career? It's pretty clear he'll never make the big leagues as a hitter, and I gotta believe the Cubs would like to see some sliver of hope out of their investment in him.

Its never to early and they are close to Top 10 if not on the back side and Wyatt and Wright are in the Top 20 possibly, along with Russell and Acosta. Thomas is in my top 10, absolutely. I just wanted to focus on guys that were here a year ago at this time.

Veal Oops. Obviously.

I figure 2007 draftees should be discussed separately, since the evidence is so brief to-date (though I love Thomas big-time). Prospects that helped themselves the most in 2007: Soto, Gallagher, Hart, Kroeger, Holliman, Hoffpauir, Pignatiello, Atkins, Papelbon, Roquet, Ceda Biggest disappointments in 2007: Dopirak, Harvey (both in perpetuity), Mateo, Cedeno (classic 4A), Samardzija Prospects I'm sorry to see leave in 2007: Blevins, Rapada Most likely to be a difference-maker in the big leagues w/in 2 years: Maybe Soto, maybe Pie, maybe Ceda My top ten list (ignoring 07 draftees): 1. Soto 2. Pie 3. Gallagher 4. Kroeger 5. Patterson 6. Atkins 7. Colvin 8. Ceda 9. Samardzija 10. Petrick Just missed: Papelbon, Holliman, Pignatiello

Bump. Remind me again why Wily Mo wasn't good enough for the Cubs, but Craig Monroe was?

I inadvertently switched avery & Atkins. :oops: Haha, gotcha. I'd definitely put Roquet on the list...mid-90s FB, plus slider. He looks like a great relief prospect. A couple other intriguing (imo) names to track - Cliff Andersen, James Russell, Jake Renshaw and Jeffry Antigua (DSL). A couple of good catches there... So if we're taking early nominations for next year's top 30 list, we have: Iowa Soto EP Gallagher Petrick Hart Tennessee Colvin Reynolds Veal Atkins Shark Roquet Daytona Clevenger Dope Peoria Castillo Barney Renshaw Hernandez Ceda Dolis Russell Boise Donaldson Thomas Rosa Burke Rundle Huseby Acosta Tolentino Cabrera Arizona Anderson Carlos Perez Marwin Gonzalez Vitters Oswaldo Martinez Cedric Redmond Larry Suarez DSL Jeffry Antigua This could be the first time in a very long time that I like the hitters more than the pitchers in our system. I enjoy the minor league forum, and I love these kinds of topics. Setting aside particular players though, and completely skipping this year's June 07 amateur signings, isn't it rather depressing how far down our system has fallen? Where's the excitement in our upper level minors? I get perturbed by many of the posts in the main forum when people get all uptight about the Rocky Cherry's and Scott Moore's and Clay Rapada's of the world. These kids aren't difference makers. I am putting a lot of faith in Wilken like everyone else, he sure seems to have had a good 07 draft so maybe things will look better in a couple of years (LOVE Thomas and Donaldson). But for now, these are the only upper level players I see having even a remote chance of being big league difference makers: Shark Colvin Maybe Soto Maybe Gallagher That's one short list. :-(

Hilarious. Wow, hyperbole much? I'd like to know what conceivable futures is being mortgaged by moving the Great Scott Moore (ex-Detroit flotsam, failed 1st round pick) and the Great Rocky Cherry (28 years old with a 4+ AAA ERA). There is no universe where either of these guys is a difference maker for the Cubs. None. Get a grip. I already apologized for my bad wording. I didn't mean we are giving away great prospects. I just meant that we were giving up assets for a marginal pitcher that we don't need. Fair enough. I would take issue though that (a) Moore and Cherry are assets valued by other teams much, and (b) that Trachsel is someone we don't need. You can ALWAYS use a durable pitcher with starting experience, even if it's only for insurance or mopup duty. Keep in mind that sometimes these things don't work out, but sometimes they do, too. Look at Piniero and Weaver with the Cards the last two years. Wells goes out and pitches a good game for the Dodgers his first time. If Trachsel helps the Cubs win just one or two games max in September, the trade was worth it. He's not signed for next year, this is a 30-day plus October gig for him.

Trachsel is a useful arm for unloading groceries or laying sod. As a pitcher, he's one of MLB's worst. You've heard of addition by subtraction? Welcome to subtraction by addition. Another hyperbolic post. Yeah, he's one of the worst pitchers in baseball. Tell that to the teams he pitched against in April, May and August. He's old, he's inconsistent. He's not crap.

Hilarious. Wow, hyperbole much? I'd like to know what conceivable futures is being mortgaged by moving the Great Scott Moore (ex-Detroit flotsam, failed 1st round pick) and the Great Rocky Cherry (28 years old with a 4+ AAA ERA). There is no universe where either of these guys is a difference maker for the Cubs. None. Get a grip.

For all-time GG, Morgan is a joke. I rate it a tossup between Sandberg, Alomar, and Nellie Fox. For all-around 2B though? Morgan was definitely better than Ryno, and I love #23. I watched Morgan on a regular basis during his playing days, once he matured and developed power, he was an incredibly dangerous player. With his plate discipline and incredible base running ability, he could (and did) change the course of a game single-handedly. Ryno was never like that. My list: 1. Rogers Hornsby 2. Jackie Robinson 3. Joe Morgan 4. Eddie Collins 5. Charlie Gehringer 6. Rod Carew 7. Ryne Sandberg 8. Nap Lajoie 9. Frankie Frisch 10. Robbie Alomar

If your goal is to obtain a power-hitting RH bat off the bench that can mash lefties, why on earth would you want Craig Monroe when you can have Sammy Sosa instead? Against LHP: 318/413/568 = 981 OPS, 20 Ks vs 14 BBs

I wish posters would get off Marquis' case. He's been a perfectly acceptable #5 starter, in fact, pretty good for that slot. Check out the league leaders in WHIP. Get back to me once you compile a list of other #5 starters in baseball with a better WHIP than Jason Marquis. Yes, he's inconsistent, and when he's bad, he's BAD. OK. I'll take a 50/50 success rate out of my 5 starter all day long. In the playoffs, you move him to long relief, allowing the Cubs to put an extra bat on the bench and keep one of the extra relievers (likely Eyre) off the post-season roster. No problems. I'm more concerned about the consistent sucktitude of Will Ohman and the occasional implosions of Bobby Howry than I am the work of any of our starters this year. Ohman and Howry combined have literally blown ten games for the Cubs this year. TEN GAMES!!! If even HALF of those games are back, the Cubs would find themselves a gaudy 17 games over 500 right now with the best record in the NL. Think about that for a moment. Jason Marquis is not the biggest problem on the Cubs pitching staff.

Piggy, Cherry, Rapada, and Marmol will be fixtures in our BP for years to come. disagree. Marmol probably, the others I doubt it. I'm sure the advance scouts will take your prognostication into consideration. :roll: