Conky

Cecil Fielder. Genetics. Research. Better yet Google search images of Prince and his father. Compare.

I guess I don't know what you're criticizing. Are you saying that the Cubs should have taken an extended period of not attempting to win games at the major league level in order to focus entirely on the farm system? If so, I strongly disagree with you. It's very possible to build a good, sustainable farm system while also making efforts to contend at the major league level. Plenty of big market teams have done it and the Cubs could have to - and they tried. However, their failure came in not targeting the right players. They focused solely on big time athletes with little to no baseball skills on the offensive side, and extremely hard throwers with little to no control on the pitching side. Too many of those players flamed out and that led to highly rated farm systems not panning out the way they should have. Their failure in the farm had nothing to do with their attempts at winning each season at the major league level and it wasn't due to lack of funds or resources put into the farm, there was plenty of both. The failure came in what types of players they targeted. No, not saying that at all. Quite the opposite. The goal should always be winning. I am in complete agreement that large market teams have options available that allow for building from within while also pursuing FA acquisitions. My criticism is that the Cubs have been terrible on both fronts to the point that a massive re-tooling is needed. I don't criticize Hendry for trying. I criticize the result. Fast forward to today, and we have a tear-down/ rebuild in progress. Much needed and long overdue. That said, I think that Theo and company will pull the trigger on a big ticket FA if a deal makes sense. The money and years of any such deal have to jive with the mission statement and benefit the future of the franchise. Thus far, I haven't seen any moves that I wish would have been made. I have every confidence in this group to build the team the right way moving forward. Both at the major and minor league levels. For that, I'm willing to give them some time to lay out the big picture. Would you be willing to overpay for an impact player in free agency by giving additional years that don't make sense based upon expected production? The market seems to be saying that if you want one of these guys you are going to have to do that because if you don't someone else will. Depends on the player and the situation. Pujols with his age and expected regression? No. Fielder and his expected weight problems in the future? No. I was also not a fan of gambling heavily on Darvish because of the track record of pitchers coming out of Japan. Someone like Cespedes I would be all over. Although he is still a gamble, he is young, has an athletic frame, and a rough but visible skill-set to work with. I would over-pay in money and years to get that guy.

So maybe the FO ought to tell the paying public exactly what the "big picture" is instead of expecting everyone to "keep the faith" when they sign Reed Johnson because it's part of a mysterious big plan If Marmol's arm explodes or if either has another bad season' date=' they become much less valuable.[/color'] The expected rosters of the 2012 & 2013 Chicago Cubs. The poll will be taken at the box office when the team loses revenue for 2-3 years. I completely disagree with the notion that the front office should openly announce their strategy to the public, all of MLB, or the agents and GMs they are in daily negotiations with. Your second point has nothing to do with the discussion over perceived value for Soto and Marmol now. Of course if Marmol's arm explodes or Soto has another bad season, their value will drop. In other news, the sky is blue. lol We have no idea what the expected rosters will look like in 2012 or 2013. Pure speculation and hand wringing over events that have not transpired as yet. Indeed it will. Thing is, you are not factoring in the drop in payroll in this scenario, so revenue is a bit tough to project. The Ricketts are shrewd business people. I trust they have the foresight to factor in possible outcomes to different business approaches. That said, some meatball fans may stay away next year. New fans may also take their places. This is not the same scenario as the end of last year. Not by any stretch. Cubs fans are very intelligent and informed (for the most part). With a new team/ ballpark/ and brand on the rise, I think people will come out. I know I certainly will.

I guess I don't know what you're criticizing. Are you saying that the Cubs should have taken an extended period of not attempting to win games at the major league level in order to focus entirely on the farm system? If so, I strongly disagree with you. It's very possible to build a good, sustainable farm system while also making efforts to contend at the major league level. Plenty of big market teams have done it and the Cubs could have to - and they tried. However, their failure came in not targeting the right players. They focused solely on big time athletes with little to no baseball skills on the offensive side, and extremely hard throwers with little to no control on the pitching side. Too many of those players flamed out and that led to highly rated farm systems not panning out the way they should have. Their failure in the farm had nothing to do with their attempts at winning each season at the major league level and it wasn't due to lack of funds or resources put into the farm, there was plenty of both. The failure came in what types of players they targeted. No, not saying that at all. Quite the opposite. The goal should always be winning. I am in complete agreement that large market teams have options available that allow for building from within while also pursuing FA acquisitions. My criticism is that the Cubs have been terrible on both fronts to the point that a massive re-tooling is needed. I don't criticize Hendry for trying. I criticize the result. Fast forward to today, and we have a tear-down/ rebuild in progress. Much needed and long overdue. That said, I think that Theo and company will pull the trigger on a big ticket FA if a deal makes sense. The money and years of any such deal have to jive with the mission statement and benefit the future of the franchise. Thus far, I haven't seen any moves that I wish would have been made. I have every confidence in this group to build the team the right way moving forward. Both at the major and minor league levels. For that, I'm willing to give them some time to lay out the big picture. The only type of FA that would fit the highlighted section above would seem to be a 25-year old superstar and unfortunately most of them don't qualify for free agency. Not true at all. Both Ricketts and Epstein have said that spending for premier talent will happen if the deal makes sense. I'll take them at their word. Not a single deal has gone down thus far that makes sense for this team moving forward.

I guess I don't know what you're criticizing. Are you saying that the Cubs should have taken an extended period of not attempting to win games at the major league level in order to focus entirely on the farm system? If so, I strongly disagree with you. It's very possible to build a good, sustainable farm system while also making efforts to contend at the major league level. Plenty of big market teams have done it and the Cubs could have to - and they tried. However, their failure came in not targeting the right players. They focused solely on big time athletes with little to no baseball skills on the offensive side, and extremely hard throwers with little to no control on the pitching side. Too many of those players flamed out and that led to highly rated farm systems not panning out the way they should have. Their failure in the farm had nothing to do with their attempts at winning each season at the major league level and it wasn't due to lack of funds or resources put into the farm, there was plenty of both. The failure came in what types of players they targeted. No, not saying that at all. Quite the opposite. The goal should always be winning. I am in complete agreement that large market teams have options available that allow for building from within while also pursuing FA acquisitions. My criticism is that the Cubs have been terrible on both fronts to the point that a massive re-tooling is needed. I don't criticize Hendry for trying. I criticize the result. Fast forward to today, and we have a tear-down/ rebuild in progress. Much needed and long overdue. That said, I think that Theo and company will pull the trigger on a big ticket FA if a deal makes sense. The money and years of any such deal have to jive with the mission statement and benefit the future of the franchise. Thus far, I haven't seen any moves that I wish would have been made. I have every confidence in this group to build the team the right way moving forward. Both at the major and minor league levels. For that, I'm willing to give them some time to lay out the big picture.

I think you are being far too pessimistic and are drawing conclusions based purely on conjecture. Were you making these statements 2 years into the new front office, it would be understandable. Simply stated, we do not have any idea of the big picture just yet. To address the bold above: Soto and Marmol are known commodities. They are not prospects and do not have large upside or downside. They are what they are. They are established major league players and their value will not change accordingly. They are both valuable trading chips. Signing Cespedes or Soler et al will have an impact on the farm system rating should those moves happen. In the case of Cespedes, he will not be in the minor leagues for long, if at all, so the point is moot. That said, the plan Theo and the front office is working as a whole will boost the farm system rating much quicker than signing a couple of high impact players. The farm is rated as a whole, from top to bottom, not by impact or major league ready prospects. What major league roster is this based on? Was there a poll taken? Yes, fans that have waited for better than a century will not wait another 2-3 years for a perennial contender. /hyperbole. Looks like someone is trying to beat the rush.

Oh definitely. I agree completely. Why I said "yet". It's Boras' job to get as much as he can for his client. Just as it's Theo's job to do whatever he can to get the price down to where it is acceptable for the team/ ownership. The possibility exists that Theo is playing Boras here, and it is a viable alternative imho.

Doesn't mean that Boras has backed off that demand yet.

Like he didn't do when he didn't trade DeRosa for Archer/Gaub/Stevens, right? I could be being unfair to him, but I feel like that move was more of a salary dump than selling high because selling high is smart. Wasn't there talk of the purse strings being really tight after 08 and that move was made to help accommodate the signing of gameboard? Or am I remembering wrong? I seem to remember it as trying to clear room for a run at Peavy, but might have been Bradley.

I don't believe it is. I just don't think we're seeing the big picture yet. Obviously, the pieces that have been available thus far have not met their criteria for cost-benefit analyses. I actually agree with the decisions they have made to date. That said, I am a huge fan of Theo playing his cards close to the vest, no matter how frustrating that may be for us as fans. Just going to take some patience, I think. Allow me to do some straw grasping here. We've heard about the full rebuild 3rd hand from David Kaplan.but Epstein hasn't said boo to the media. Its not impossible that they're letting teams think this so they come to us with offers for players who don't fit into the long term plans and see how much we can inflate the package. Meanwhile with the team that was slated as one of the favorites for Fielder seemingly out of the picture, and his market down it could give Theo an opportunity to strike and get him at a 5/125 type deal. Even if Theo did say the words full rebuild to someone, nowhere is it stated that full rebuild can't involve spending big money on the right player. I would certainly agree that this could all be a smokescreen to deal with Boras or other agents/ teams. If it's not, I'm still fine with the rebuilding thing (the Marshall trade just strengthens that faith). Eliminating the Cubs as a possible suitor for Fielder certainly does erode a ton of Boras' leverage in driving the price/ years on Fielder. A move I see as classic Theo. If they decide a splash is in order, it will happen. Fielder at 6/ 120-130 is a far cry from Fielder 10/ 200.

I don't believe it is. I just don't think we're seeing the big picture yet. Obviously, the pieces that have been available thus far have not met their criteria for cost-benefit analyses. I actually agree with the decisions they have made to date. That said, I am a huge fan of Theo playing his cards close to the vest, no matter how frustrating that may be for us as fans. Just going to take some patience, I think.

Taking 2 years to rebuild a large market team to be "ready" to compete in the NL Central isn't what I envisioned when we hired the boy genius. As many have posted, there's no reason the Cubs can't rebuild while fielding a decent team in 2012 and "a factor in the NL Central" in 2013. Not getting the hate this early for the new front office. Regardless of what "many have posted", I'll put my trust in the people in place that are actually making the decisions and spending their pwn money. No reason to lash out just because your own ideas or those of others here are not being adopted by the brand new brain-trust. I'm sure it's nothing personal. They are doing the jobs they were hired to do. At this early stage, saying the team will not be "decent" in 2012 is nothing more than a speculative rant. Maybe this message board should be shut down until opening day. As long as people are willing to keep an open mind and re-assess as transactions are completed I don't see any harm in discussing the Cubs' prospects based upon the team's composition at that time. Discussion is what boards like this are all about. My opinion over the knee-jerk reactions and premature hyperbole we are seeing from some posters here is a part of that discussion. Seeing the name calling and frustration over early moves is a bit comical, though. Theo is already being sarcastically called "the boy wonder", and the front office compared to that of Hendry. That's great stuff. Tim has to be loving these guys for the added hits they generate. lol Discuss away on irrational perceptions all you want. Just don't be surprised if others don't agree.

The Cubs put a lot of effort into the farm system during parts of the MacPhail and Hendry regimes through the 2000s. We had a handful of really highly rated farm systems and actually produced some pretty high quality players from it - Zambrano, Cruz, Prior, Soto, Willis, Nolasco, Castro - and used it to acquire a couple of cornerstones in Aramis and DLee. The Cubs have tried to win - which is a good thing - but at the same time haven't disregarded the farm system at the same time. The problem is, under Hendry they did a very poor job of targeting the right players - both in the majors and minors - and they never had a consistent philosophy they've stuck to for more than 1 or 2 seasons. The problem hasn't been a desire and effort to win each season, the problem has been how they've gone about trying to do it. This is exactly my point. They have developed some players and have acquired some premiere talent through trades involving prospects. Just not enough of them and not the right ones. They have relied on developing pitchers for the most part and have used that talent pool to acquire positional players (along with free agency, another area they have failed miserably). No one is saying that trying and failing is a bad thing. The problem is just as you say. The club to this point has not built the farm for overall and sustained development. They are looking to do that now under Rickett's tenure. The farm is the rock from which powerhouses are built. The Cubs certainly have not been a great farm over the last decade. They have had some good prospects come through, but have not used them wisely. The Cubs have had a decent farm several times, but no one points to this organization as being a leading source of major league talent. Hopefully that is about to change.

Taking 2 years to rebuild a large market team to be "ready" to compete in the NL Central isn't what I envisioned when we hired the boy genius. As many have posted, there's no reason the Cubs can't rebuild while fielding a decent team in 2012 and "a factor in the NL Central" in 2013. Not getting the hate this early for the new front office. Regardless of what "many have posted", I'll put my trust in the people in place that are actually making the decisions and spending their pwn money. No reason to lash out just because your own ideas or those of others here are not being adopted by the brand new brain-trust. I'm sure it's nothing personal. They are doing the jobs they were hired to do. At this early stage, saying the team will not be "decent" in 2012 is nothing more than a speculative rant.

this is so incredibly stupid Glad you agree. Maybe you'd like to do a quick edit and add in something meaningful that makes your point look intelligent (whether it was your own idea or not).

Being a consistent force in your division and making the playoffs year in and year out is the goal. Having the best chance of winning it all depends on consistently getting to the post-season and having things go your way. Taking 2 years to put together a well-built franchise, ready to compete would seem to be exactly what the front office was brought in to do. Adding on another random 13 years before you see "winning a championship" is just hyperbole and rabble mongering.

The way this off-season has gone makes perfect sense given what has been said all along by TR and Theo since he's been here. The "win now" rut that the club has been stuck in for the better part of a decade is not the answer. Many fans, here and other places have bemoaned the organization for not having built the system "the right way" from the bottom up. That work now has begun in earnest. A couple of years of waiting now is nothing compared to generations of disappointment. From the outside looking in, I see TR and company setting up the franchise for a renaissance period the likes of which none of us has ever experienced. The front office is a dream team. The club has recently purchased additional land adjacent to the shrine. Makes perfect sense to pull back on immediate payroll spending if the team is going all in on tearing the thing down and starting over, both literally and figuratively. Personally I am expecting to hear news very soon of a plan to renovate Wrigley. Tear down the stands and rebuild the park while doing the same to the on-field team. Pure speculation, but saving money on payroll during a period where attendance will be down during construction/ rejuvenation would make perfect sense. Take two years while rebuilding the ballpark, the product, and the brand. I love the concept if this is what is happening. Taking Ricketts' vision at face value leads me to believe this is exactly what is going on.

No one is saying anything with certainty. But a new record bid certainly smacks Yankees. As stated, they are in pitching acquisition mode and did not go all in on Wilson. Everyone figured Matsuzaka would drive the posting price lower on Darvish. I could easily see the Yankees deciding that this was their guy and guaranteeing it by beating the Daisuke bid. As an aside, it's also hard to imagine Theo eager to go down that road again or willing/ able to convince Ricketts to beat the Matsuzaka bid in order to land Darvish. Hope he did, but all signs do not favor the Cubs, imho.

This has Yankees written all over it, unfortunately. They are in a year where they want to acquire pitching. Probably why they let Wilson go by the board. Hope Theo got it done, but the Yanks have this kinda money to throw around. Not sure the Cubs do. Not yet.

Are people really ok with the 10 years Boras seems to think Fielder is owed now? 6 sure. 10 no thanks. I'd be happy with Cespedas/ fire sale, but it is looking like the Yankees/ Marlins will out-bid everyone for him. Might be some gems in IFA, but the new rules will make it hard to grab more than 1 (and that's if you hit on your selection). Further quick-fix options are extremely limited. This team was horribly broken. It will take some time to undo the damage done by Hendry/ Tribco. People expecting a turnaround to contender in one off season were/ are highly optimistic in my opinion.

$31,111,111.11 :hello:

I used to do the Kent Tekulve wind up just for fun. That guy is unmistakeable. Indeed. The wind-up and glasses were a dead give-away on Tekulve. I went to look if he was ever on the Pirates when Dawson was on the Cubs because that so looks like Dawson on first. They were never on those two teams at the same time. Nice edit, Jersey. lol

Most definitely Kent Tekulve pitching there. That guy is unmistakeable. Sure looks like Dawson on first with those bowed legs, but can't be. Doesn't look like The Sarge's body type either. I'd have to guess Durham but doesn't really look like him at all.

Wait, isn't that where Hendry has been working? Now the Cubs get to fire him again? Oh the humanity!

Why doesn't the press release just mean that it didn't work out for whatever reason? Is it really that hard to understand? Some organizations and individuals would rather keep employment details private. Embrace the fact that this is the way your team does business now. That said, the Maddux family exuding class should be no surprise, really. This is a non-story.