Bryants Disco Ball

You keep making inferences that aren't there to be made. The media has a habit of trying to run players out of town. Carlos Zambrano was shipped out. That doesn't mean I think the media ran him out of town. The two were coincidental. They're beginning to work on Castro, too, but he's not going anywhere. Huh? You said, "I don't care that Zambrano was traded. I care that he was made the victim of a ridiculous media campaign to run him out of town." Isn't that saying you think the media did or attempted to run him out of town?

It seems some people are so blindly ignorant about the painfully obvious that they say whatever they can to pretend it is not happening. Listen, I'm not a guy who pretends it doesn't exist. And when I see it, I have no problem calling it out. But nobody has been able to convince me yet that the Chicago media has this racist side you continue to say they do. At this point, I'd have to label some people here a bit too sensitive. Perhaps you have trained yourself to call out racism every time somebody says something that isn't positive about a minority. That's what is painfully obvious to me, but you can pretend that's not what you are doing.

Nobody is misunderstanding anything but you. You tried to use a pathetic analogy stating that incidents, many of them isolated, by white guys, were ignored by the fans and press, while Zambrano was a victim of racism. I went on to cite that if a kid like you remembers the "white guy" stuff when he wasnt even alive to see much of it, it must have gotten, and continues to get plenty of press. I then went on to cite how your beloved white guys were treated as badly as Zambrano. Zambrano would have been gone from most organizations long before the Cubs finally cut him loose. . Lots of bad equivocation in that post. "Ignored" doesn't mean nobody ever heard of it (though some of the incidents were very sparsely reported on compared to what you would get today. It took some digging to find. Most casual fans will have never heard of it). It means ignored when forming opinions. Disregarded. Your "treated as badly" isn't applicable because again, this isn't about how the Cubs organization or Hall of Fame voters treated the players. I don't care that Zambrano was traded. I care that he was made the victim of a ridiculous media campaign to run him out of town. You are either misunderstanding or intentionally trying to obfuscate in order to turn a blind eye to the institutional racism. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. A ridiculous media campaign to run him out of town? This is the stuff I'm talking about. It seems some people are so convinced about this racist media crap that they actually blame the media for Zambrano being run out of town? Come on, man. There might be examples you could use that I might not agree with but perhaps would make me pause. Carlos Zambrano is at the top of the list of ones that won't.

Remember that time Zambrano retired because he was having a bad season, abandoning the team, without coming back? Remember when he wouldn't stop showing up opponents with a dance move on the field? What about when he kept taking out younger players on binge drinking session before day games? Or the time he choked his manager? Punched a concession vendor? Oh wait, those were beloved, untouchable white players. If you can't see it, it's only because you don't want to see it. I admit that I'm not a smart dude. So, I will say I don't understand what you are saying here.

I don't know, man. I just think it often comes with the territory of being one of the standout players on your team. I could be wrong, but I do not remember the media being real rough on guys like Alou and Lee.

My god that is so stupid. So the only way you can justify claiming there are racial overtones to how some are playing is by confirming that all minority players are criticized and no white players are? Seriously, that is just so dumb. That's not "the thing", that's just dumb. What I'm saying is that there are hundreds of minority players who have played for the Cubs that have not been discriminated against by the media. Meaning I don't believe they are racist like some do. And every time a minority fits that description, somebody will have an excuse as to why he wasn't picked on. The bottom line is that there are reasons guys like zambrano have been focused on by the media. And it's not because they are hispanic

I do admit those exist. That's fair.

Also, I would add that I'm not talking about fans and whether they are racists. More focusing on the media. I do not believe at this point that the Chicago media has targeted minorities and are racist against them. If we had a crazy white man who also was a star like Carlos Zambrano, they'd write and talk about him because it would be an interesting and good story. Maybe the real story is that we haven't had enough superstar white dudes who also were crazy off the field or did crazy things during games.

Ryan Theriot is kind of the gold standard of the double standard. That guy managed to screw up pretty much every possible way you can on the field, acted like a raging douche, didn't have half the talent of Starlin Castro, yet you STILL have Cubs fans who bemoan that he's gone and would rather have him over Castro. But I would think those are the meatheads you guys always talk about. Nothing about those Cubs fans really matters. I don't think that means they are racist. I just think it means they are idiots. The Cubs fans who actually have knowledge knows that he blows. Just like we know that Koyie Hill blew and Joe Borowski wasn't all that as a closer. Just like we also would say that Milton Bradley was terrible.

We're not saying they're automatically racist against all non-white players; the idea is that many are too quick to jump to cliche, racial tropes as soon as they decide they don't like a non-white player, often for things said or mistakes that white players can seemingly get away with. I will have to give this more thought because I always respect your opinion. But there is just something about these statements that I just can't agree with at this point.

He was on the team for 2 years, was really good in the 1st and got hit in the face and missed much of the 2nd. He signed a reasonable contract and lived up to it. There was very little for the bigoted idiots to get riled up about, and very little time for their simple minds to process his 2012 decline. See, that's the thing. When a black player doesn't get trashed by fans or media and he is brought up as an example, there will always be an excuse. Maybe he didn't get bashed because for the most part, people felt he gave a good effort and played ball the right way most times. I'd say that when the majority of people feel that way about a player, they aren't as hard on them. Fans or media. Starlin gained a reputation for lacking focus at times, and yes, he probably has been unfairly bashed more than he should. But it's not because he's hispanic that he gained that reputation. It's because he did a few things on the field that put it in the spotlight.

Marlon Byrd was pretty much respected by fans and media even though he was pretty bad at times. Maybe it's because he hustled on every play, etc? In most cases, the board would say that it was because the player was white. When he's black, people just don't notice when a player isn't being trashed for not being that good. When Byrd did something bad on the field, nobody in the media blasted him. When he was recently suspended 50 games for roids, nobody in the Chicago media trashed him.

One last one and then I'll stop. I bet Mordecai Brown was made fun of and bashed by fans for only having three fingers. OK. I laughed at that one.

Also, Brant Brown probably was hated and issued death threats at one point. Was Jeromy Burnitz loved?

I have to admit that the whole racist talk on here always annoys me. It's thrown around way to easy. Wasn't Sammy Sosa and his inflated ego overlooked for a long time? When he was hitting 60 bombs a season, wasn't most media and fans in love with him and his baseball has been very, very good to him thing? Why did Todd Hundley get ripped on and hated so much if it's only minorities who get blasted or treated unfair? I just want to know. I'm not saying I'm right. But it just seems like an annoying joke that everyone uses on here, without any real facts that somebody is indeed a racist. It's a strong thing to accuse somebody of without really knowing.

I just get really sad seeing Valbuena playing a lot over Vitters. I understand all the thinking, but I don't care.

Nope. I totally agree with this. Castro can't be the Cubs' best hitter if they want to get where we want them to go. I'd already say with the addition of Rizzo, he's our second best now. When he's our fourth best, that's when things get really fun.

I'd also agree with Nuts that Castro passes the eye test as a better base runner this season. Heck, maybe that's why he almost has tied his career high with triples. Who knows.

Very late joining this conversation, but when Tim was talking about the home runs going up but the doubles going down, he also didn't note that Castro already has eight triples. That's one off his career high. He had 39 extra base hits in 2010 and 55 last year. He's at 34 this season with around 50 games remaining. By average, he should get 15 more extra base hits this season, which would put him at 49. This is if I'm doing all my math correct, and I did flunk the subject multiple times in high school. All that said, when looking at the full context and seeing where he should be at by the end of the season with XBH's, Castro is pretty much in line with what he's done slugging wise. I'll be more than happy to take more home runs and triples at the expense of some doubles.

It was, but there was something about Rizzo's hustle and aggressiveness that whole inning that I was happy with. I don't endorse the move, but yet couldn't get upset with him.

This year besides reading the box scores of the minors and majors on a daily basis, no. Therefore, I can't apologize to you for saying one of your previous posts was lazy. You really know nothing about what is going on with this team, so most of your posts are going to lack the knowledge that can be of any help on a Cubs message board.

I thought his ranking dropped. But I don't check rankings that often. Then your post about him not being lauded by anyone other than Cubs fans was just lazy on your part. You can do better.

Yeah, I'm right there with you. Oh wait, Randall Delgado K'd 10 in 6 innings a couple nights ago in AAA. So, maybe not. In fact, I was hoping Pujols took him deep multiple times tonight. 10 K's in six innings? Please. I'll take two home runs a game instead....plus still get a top pitching prospect from Atlanta :)

Although it's only one start, his choice to go to Texas and not Atlanta is really going to hurt him on the free agent market. I can't see him ending the season strong pitching in that stadium, in that heat and against those lineups.

A trade in which we get billy Hamilton?