Cubswin11

I could spin it the other way too, You could but you'd be completely off base and would sound silly. There is a trade him if you can get something argument and a no we can't trade him because he's valuable but won't get us anything argument. The rational one is to consider a trade if you can find something. Preemptively refusing to trade him because you assume you can't get anything is just weird. This isn't like some stock where you choose to sell at the current price and voila he's gone and you're locked in at that price. Nobody is pushing for them to get rid of soler at all costs. Trading Soler is an option the Cubs have when reconfiguring their roster this winter and it's an option they should consider. End of story. Well yeah, no horsefeathers, of course they should see what his market is and MAYBE there's someone who gives them something decent in a trade for him and they jump on it. They should, just like with almost every player, see what other teams would offer for them as basic due diligence in the offseason. And I apologize if I was coming off as saying he was untouchable, that is far from what I think. Maybe I'm wrong, I don't think I am, but I don't see his market offering us the type of return worth getting rid of him vs. the upside reward of keeping him going into next year. It just seems like there are a lot people willing to dump him to dump him regardless of the return, which I believe is poor use of him as an asset and selling way short. I think whatever he brings as a return for us right now could be easily found and had on the scrap heaps of FA, Rule 5 draft or acquired with ancillary minor league players in the system.

I could spin it the other way too, why do people the people who think he's incredibly expendable because he's always hurt, hasn't performed yet and a DH only still think we can trade him for value? He has value to me on the Cubs because he still has upside, is youngish, cheap and we can afford to have a lotto ticket on the 25 man because the rest of the roster is so deep and versatile. I'd rather take the gamble he turns out to be something and keep him than trade him for whatever limited return he's likely going to bring right now as the current player he his this offseason. Where he sits now I think he has little value in a trade to us. We can go sign Bud Norris in the offseason if we want to bring in the value Soler is bringing us in a trade.

To me there is when he's a depth/bench piece. I'd rather have the guy taking up the last spot on the bench have upside than a league averagish dude who you can easily find 10 of over the course of the year through your system/trades/FAs. At some point he's going to have to just show he can even be consistently available to play, much less a useful baseball player. Ultimately it's looking more and more like having Soler or some random dude on the bench isn't really that big a difference, or at all. 100% agree, but our amazing depth allows us to keep waiting/rolling the dice with a roster spot on him hoping the upside hits without really needing to rely on him. On a much more mortal team, sure you probably want the Szczur's of the world because he's actually going to have to play and you want to lock in some league average production and he's a slightly better known quantity instead of having the guy with the higher bust chance. But we aren't a mortal team so we can do things that traditionally teams haven't been able to risk doing.

2018 is so far away in terms of pitching with how fungible it is, it's silly to worry about it because it's a constantly moving target, who knows what happens to what we have both currently in the majors and minors and what pitchers across the league emerge/get hurt. On top of that Soler isn't bringing in that pitcher we want right now with where his value is and if I had to guess I bet we'd be underwhelmed on what Javy alone would bring back as a return. Well then, I guess, what's the plan there? The free agent market for starting pitching the next two years is brutal, unless we want to splurge on Darvish or hope Otani comes over. Right now there isn't a single arm in the minor leagues I'd count on to be a starter for the Cubs in the next two years. We're going to have to bring in reinforcements, probably even for next year, because there's just no one behind Montgomery/Rob Z who can help out behind our top 4. This is very Cubs of me to be worried about this right now. Baez will probably just teach himself to pitch in the offseason. Well the plan certainly isn't selling short on position player assets and acquiring shitty AA pitchers or pitchers who are already hurt and hoping we get lucky because OMG pitching. Look at how quick things turned on the Mets this year. Let things play out and don't force moves because of a perceived problem maybe in the future. This shouldn't mean not acquiring any pitching, obviously we need it, but the FO has shown creative ways to get it without giving up significant players for it and hamstringing us on future moves. Use money on it when you have to and find cheap ways to acquire guys through trades that they think our coaches/development can work magic on. I'd rather find and acquire 10 Mike Montgomery's with ancillary minor league players to throw the pitching dice with than trade for what we think is 1 premium minor league/controlled pitcher with Soler or Baez. If you want to trade Soler for pitching now, I hope you enjoy Nick Tropeano and his rehabbing elbow from TJS because that's what you are ending up with.

You say this like there's this huge gulf between Soler and a player like Szczur in terms of production value/reliability. To me there is when he's a depth/bench piece. I'd rather have the guy taking up the last spot on the bench have upside than a league averagish dude who you can easily find 10 of over the course of the year through your system/trades/FAs.

Depth/protection against injury, to face LHP and because we can? Why trade him just because? He's not bringing anything but a nominal return so keep him and let baseball figure itself out. Or do you just want the Szczur's of the world taking up bench spots? We'd be trading him because he's an attractive asset and sooner or later we're going to need another starting pitcher. Given what we have, and given what Soler's shown and not shown, he's the most expendable of that group. What do you think his value is right now? Because to me his value is find a AA pitcher who isn't a big prospect hope you get lucky on his development or you have to take a gamble on a guy who's working back from injury.

Depth/protection against injury, to face LHP and because we can? Why trade him just because? He's not bringing anything but a nominal return so keep him and let baseball figure itself out. Or do you just want the Szczur's of the world taking up bench spots? I know this is sidetracking the discussion, and I know pitching is stupid, but at some point we're going to have to figure out what the 2018 rotation is, because right now it's 34 year old Lester, Hendricks, and...Montgomery? Yes, maybe we can just count on Theo signing the Lackey's and Hammels of the year to two year deals for forever, but this phenomenal defense was complimented by a very strong pitching staff that I assume we want to maintain going forward. I know the idea of a 4 WAR logjam in the field is amazing, and it's not a 'problem'. It's an opportunity. Pitching is dumb, and paying a big price for pitching is even dumber. But we're going to need some of it soon. 2018 is so far away in terms of pitching with how fungible it is, it's silly to worry about it because it's a constantly moving target, who knows what happens to what we have both currently in the majors and minors and what pitchers across the league emerge/get hurt. On top of that Soler isn't bringing in that pitcher we want right now with where his value is and if I had to guess I bet we'd be underwhelmed on what Javy alone would bring back as a return.

That's not really a thing, especially if Fowler leaves. Even if he stays there's enough PAs/platoon situations to take advantage of. We would have Schwarber/Zobrist/Bryant for left, assuming Contreras is mostly catching. Fowler/Almora in CF. Heyward in RF. Why do we need to keep him? Depth/protection against injury, to face LHP and because we can? Why trade him just because? He's not bringing anything but a nominal return so keep him and let baseball figure itself out. Or do you just want the Szczur's of the world taking up bench spots?

That's not really a thing, especially if Fowler leaves. Even if he stays there's enough PAs/platoon situations to take advantage of. If Fowler stays, it's a thing with Schwarber's return. Getting Bryant, Zobrist, Baez, Contreras and Schwarber all in the same lineup would be extremely difficult. And that's not including Soler either. It definitely gets easier if Fowler is gone and Heyward is in CF. No it won't. It wasn't a problem going into the year last year and it won't be this next year. They are probably going to be careful with Schwarber making sure he gets ample rest and sits vs some LHP and he probably won't catch a ton if at all, Contreras will be a catcher only, Baez still will need to be protected vs RHP, Heyward is gonna have to show offensive improvement or be at risk of losing starts, Soler has things to prove and like Javy shouldn't just be given starts, Bryant is getting 155+ starts so you don't need to worry about him getting starts, christ, and Zobrist is another year older so it's probably good to limit him to 130-140 games or so. Throw in regression or an injury(s) and it won't be a problem other than in articles written about us in the offseason to make it a thing. Depth is good and maybe part of the reason we are so awesome is we are able to have guys get extra rest and replace them with an equally awesome player, instead of league average or worse players so many teams have on their bench as replacements and forcing their starters to play in 155+ games when they shouldn't be because the alternatives are the Darwin Barney's, Scooter Gennet's, Melvin Uptons, Alexi Ramirez's, etc of the world.

Yeah I prefer the Nats and it's not all that close. That being said if we play the Dodgers I'm not that worried. It will probably just take 6 or 7 games to get it done.

That's not really a thing, especially if Fowler leaves. Even if he stays there's enough PAs/platoon situations to take advantage of.

Early career Yankees Soriano is one of the better comps I came across. It's pretty hard to find guys who've had sustained success with a <5% BB rate and >20% K rate in their careers. http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2016&month=0&season1=1871&ind=0&team=0&rost=0&age=0&filter=&players=0&page=2_30

FWIW the weather at night next week when we'd be on the road is relatively similar between LA/DC. LA is getting to the 80/90s during the day and DC in the 70s but both are in the 60s at night with no rain forecasted as of right now.

Phillips has a career 13% K rate, in his prime he was 11-12. Even if Javy continues to improve offensively, which he needs to, to become an everyday guy, he's probably never getting lower than ~20% on his K rate. Which would still be great for him to accomplish that and more than acceptable. I think something like 2014-15 Cespedes, Starling Marte with more power or this years Salvador Perez are the type of profile he could be with transcendent defense as his ceiling.

Unless he has to be included as part of a trade for Mike Trout, I have no interest in trading Javy right now and I'd say I'm one of the guys who is most critical/skeptical of him on here.

This is what I expect Agreed. It's what I expect and think should happen until he proves he's made some long-term plate adjustments and/or injuries force Joe's hand. Especially if Fowler is brought back, he shouldn't be guaranteed to start vs RHP with the options available.

I don't disagree but if Fowler is looking for/is offered more than 3/50-4/65 I don't think we exceed that. I still want another shot with the super team as well with Schwarbs.

I have little doubt that Heyward, a generational defender in RF, couldn't be a well above average defender in CF. I'd obviously love to have Dexter back but at the right price. I'd be fine going with Schwarber/Heyward/Soler/Almora/Bryant/Zobrist/Coghlan as our OF rotation next year if Fowler's price/years get out of hand.

So what's the rotation for the NLCS, in terms of having guys make starts on regular rest? Lester(1), Hendricks(2), Arrieta(3), Lackey(4), Lester(5), Hendricks(6), Arrieta(7)? Would all those starts be at least on 4 days rest?

Didn't the ball off Crawford hit his left elbow?

I mentioned it in the game thread last night, I think, but if it is the Dodgers we face I wouldn't be surprised to see Zastrynzy on the roster replacing Grimm. I hope the position players stay the same, I guess we could have left LaStella in San Francisco with his brethren in the bay

I had rally smokes. . . .went through a half a pack of Kools the last 3 innings. I threw in a rally chew, so high five to all of our vices

He's not starting a game but I'm sure he's gonna be ready to go at a moments notice for an extended outing like last night. Same with Wood, if we burn Monty in an outing already. Wouldn't be overly surprised if Zastrynzy makes the roster over Grimm for this same reason.

The ALCS starts Friday and that game starts at 7 CT. Saturday is the only day that has the ALCS and NLCS, we are definitely getting the prime time game so I'd say somewhere between like a 7-8:20 CT start and Sunday the same thing.

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