CubsWin

Are you talking offensively, defensively or both?

What does DeRosa fix? The whole point isn't that DeRosa is a steal at 4M or not. That obviously is yet to be determined. The point is taht DeRosa is a nice to have, not a fix for this team. This team has no NEED for a possible upgrade at 2b. With 2b being the only position that supply far outweighs demand, if Jim is looking to upgrade, why not wait until a few of them have signed and in the mean time use that money on players that will actually fix the team. If at the end of the day you have 4 more M, then spend it on one of the many similar second basemen on the market, if you don't have the money, that means you likely landed a big time player (or more than one) and can afford to risk handing 2b over to Theriot. And just like last year, these little signings add up. At this early stage we could have kept Soto as the backup catcher and Theroit as starting 2b and had nearly enough money to sign a second tier starting pitcher. Well, this is complete conjecture, so take it for what its worth, but because we don't know what Hendry's spending limits are, the following might be true: Hendry wanted to give the Cubs the best chance at winning this season. He didn't feel comfortable relying on unproven entities like Theriot and Cedeno to man 2B, so he decided to "upgrade" to a veteran bat. He could see the writing on the wall when he spoke to the agents for Durham and heard that he was expecting 2/16 or 1/10. He knew that he likely couldn't afford to sign Durham and sign the hitters he wants and the pitchers he needs, so he proactively jumped at the chance to sign DeRosa at 3/14, thus making it possible to upgrade or solidfy 2B and still afford Soriano or Drew and the starting pitchers. Again, who knows if that is anywhere close to what actually happened, but it shows hypothetically why waiting to fill other needs (and yes, unless you wanted to count on Theriot or Cedeno, 2B was a need) would have cost the Cubs in the end. Those that say signing back-up catchers, marginally upgrading 2B and re-signing possible hole-fillers for the pitching staff before signing the big name FA only serves to hinder the big FA signing have a very valid point, but its still completely hypothetical and they need to keep in mind that the Cubs finished with the worst record in the NL last year. The big name FAs are well aware of how well the Cubs did last season and will be looking at how the Cubs are improving themselves by filling out the roster with solid, unspectacular yet still needed and more reliable pieces. Hypotheticals can be successfully created from both points of view.

You know I really hate that mentality. The Cubs are a business. Business requires efficency, and just because we aren't a small market team doesn't mean we can throw money at meh players and say "hm, its only 13 million." We have the money, spend it WISELY. Derosa wasn't a terrible signing, but the years + salary is not something to be happy with. I don't care how much money we have to spend, that just means its a bit easier to entice the big guys with big money. We can pay the best what they want, not a boatload of crap a boatload of money. While I agree that the attitude of the Cubs being a big market team so its okay if they "waste" money is a dumb one, the DeRosa signing may not have been a waste of money. Reports show that the weak-hitting SS Alex Gonzalez may have been offered 3/15. According to ESPN's Rumor Central, Ray Durham is asking for 2/16 or 1/10. If those reports are accurate and those players wind up getting paid that kind of money, the DeRosa signing will make Hendry look like he was way ahead of the curve.

didn't spiezio get half of what DeRosa got? To me its four million more to a big contract (actually 13 million) so what 4 million will get is irrelevant. Thats a completely different market. DeRosa was seen by more teams than just the Cubs as a starting 2B. Spiezio is a sub. And he is also rewarding the team that gave him a chance when he was down and out, like Miller is rewarding the Cubs by sticking with them. Not to mention, Spiezio has family ties to the Cardinals. His dad played for them. Also he just won a WS with them which he said was a childhood dream come true. Its safe to say that Spiezio might have given the Cards a little discount.

A large portion of the problem with the DeRosa deal is the fact that Hendry thinks it's a good idea for him to come be our second baseman. And how does the argument against DeRosa being the starting 2B so completely and thoroughly destroy and outweigh the argument for him starting at 2B? The jury is out. There are arguments for both sides. From where I sit, that is a wait-and-see issue.

I have to assume the Florida-Boston, not the Toronto-Chicago-Puerto Rico. You are correct, sir, yeessss.

Wow if that hack can get a three year 5 million dollar out of someone he makes Derosa look like a straight up steal. Also if some team grabs up Gonzo hopefully the Red Sox will bite on Izturiz. 3 years, 15 million for Alex Gonzalez? Wow. If that's an accurate report, maybe Hendry truly was ahead of the curve with the DeRosa signing. I'll wait for confirmation of the offer first though. If only those criticizing the DeRosa contract had waited to see what the market was like before they commented. Eh, if they had, it wouldn't have been half as exciting around here that day. :D enough to give one unrealistic hopes that there is a market for Izturis out there somewhere. Yeah, no kidding...

Wow if that hack can get a three year 5 million dollar out of someone he makes Derosa look like a straight up steal. Also if some team grabs up Gonzo hopefully the Red Sox will bite on Izturiz. 3 years, 15 million for Alex Gonzalez? Wow. If that's an accurate report, maybe Hendry truly was ahead of the curve with the DeRosa signing. I'll wait for confirmation of the offer first though. If only those criticizing the DeRosa contract had waited to see what the market was like before they commented. Eh, if they had, it wouldn't have been half as exciting around here that day. :D

Dude, you offer no argument to defend Hendry other than "Just leave him alone". At least Cubswin makes a valid argument to deflect the Hendry criticism. Well, thank you, Disgruntled. I take back all things I said about you. Just kidding, I never really said anything...

Why? If people have gribes with Hendry's moves they have every right to voice thier displeasures. Right, and I have absolutely no problem with that, but shouldn't we at least wait until the bad thing we are complaining about has actually happened before we start complaining about it? I mean, the last time we did this it was because Hendry just lost Ramirez. Shouldn't we at least wait until Drew actually signs with somebody else and we learn more about what he was offered?

Really, this is a tired argument. Lee and Aramis where pure salary dumps that fell into Hendry's lap. Lee was actually traded to Baltimore, but a long term deal couldn't be worked out. Aramis was getting too expensive for the Pirates. I have to ask you, who wouldn't have made those trade? That is the question. No, the more important question is why didn't anyone else make those trades? This anti-argument doesn't hold water, CubinNY. Here's why... If it is true and Ramirez and Lee were true salary dumps, then every GM in need of a top 3 1B and 3B and a little bit of salary room would have been in line to get them since they were practically being given away, right? So why is it that the failure of a GM, Jim Hendry, was the one that got them? Why didn't they wind up on some other team? Were the Cubs the only team that could afford them? Why didn't the Yankees get Ramirez? They needed a 3B. Why didn't the Red Sox get Lee, they needed a 1B. If it is as you say and these players just "fell into Hendry's lap" and he deserves no credit for getting them as they went into what looks to be their very productive primes, then why didn't some other, better, more proactive, non-failure of a GM come in and steal them away from our dunce of a GM? After all, he was just sitting there doing nothing when they just fell into his lap? If the Ramirez, Hundley and Lee trades don't count as evidence of Hendry's worth, neither do his missing out on Beltran, or not signing enough pitching to cover when Wood got injured, or not having an adequate back-up for when Nomar went down, or his not improving the team's OBP enough.

Perhaps you failed to read all the reports in this very thread about how Hendry is pursuing Drew aggresively. Only one team can get him and Drew has a lot of control over where he wants to play, so holding one man solely responsible without knowing all the evidence is clearly an oversimplification and doing so before it actually happens is clearly an overreaction. If Drew signs with anyone else I will be disappointed with Hendry, too, but comments like this are not based in reality and really reflect poorly on both the poster and, by association, the rest of us. EDIT: Sorry, I failed to see that Tim had already addressed this.

Well, my wishes to hear Drew mentioned in connection with the Cubs got answered just one day later in another Phil Rogers article. Without a doubt, I want J.D. Drew over Alfonso Soriano. Drew is a better hitter, a better fielder, bats lefty, has experience in both CF and RF and, if the above quote is at all accurate, is a lot less expensive in both millions per year and length of contract. The only thing that he lacks is a history of being healthy. I can live with that. This should, hands down, be Hendry's main focus right now. If he can somehow pull off signing Drew, talking about getting back into the good graces...

I'm sorry, BBB, but if Hendry fails to bring in some good pitching this off season, I don't think you'll have anyone to argue with when it comes to Hendry's effectiveness. He's going to get some pitching. I'm just not sure if you're going to like what he gets. I did say "good pitching". :wink: About the only positive I can take from the list of pitchers put forth by Phil Rogers is that Hendry certainly appears to be buying low. That said, I still hold true to waiting and seeing what he does and not criticizing a supposed acquisition based on a newspaper article.

Yep. That's where I am. Its where I usually am. Have your list of players you would like to see acquired and then sit back and react to what happens. There are a lot of threads, and its fine, but there are a lot of threads that panic before some perceived bad thing happens and then there are threads like this one where people get a little worked up about a positive report in the paper. I want Drew, Soriano and good, reliable pitchers as much as the next guy, but, at this point, I'll believe it when I see it. I'm glad Drew got mentioned as being on the Cubs radar, but it means nothing unless/until he is signed.

I'm sorry, BBB, but if Hendry fails to bring in some good pitching this off season, I don't think you'll have anyone to argue with when it comes to Hendry's effectiveness.

The Mark DeRosa signing seems to have wasted any good will Cubs fans may have had towards Jim Hendry after performing a trio of smartly priced signings. Many are very disappointed by the length and amount of DeRosa's contract and the news that he has been basically handed the starting 2B job. I don't subscribe so absolutely to the theory that a player's past will always accurately predict his future, even at age 31, so I'm in wait-and-see mode on DeRosa, but he is far from a sure thing. However, the following quotes disappointed me more than spending 13 million over 3 years on a guy who may or may not be worth it. It appears Hendry is done acquiring starters to play the infield. Izturis will be the starting SS and DeRosa will be the starting 2B. Defense up the middle is important and DeRosa is apparently good with the glove at the 2B position, but it is going to take a lot of offensive improvement at the CF position in order to have this offense score enough runs to be legitimate playoff contenders. That means one of two players must be signed to play CF, J.D. Drew or Alphonso Soriano. There was no mention of Drew in Phil Rogers' latest article, but Soriano did get named as a target. But what caught my eye was the pitchers that were listed as targets or, more importantly, the ones that were not listed. No Schmidt? No Zito? No talk of trade to acquire someone like Westbrook or, perhaps, Hudson? Now before anyone starts running with these quotes it is important to note that they really mean very little. Rogers is the author of the second one, not Hendry or anyone in the Cubs front office. And the quote says that Hendry's remaining targets include those listed, but it says nothing about it being limited to only those listed. All the same, I would like to hear Hendry or even some of the beat writers mentioning the level of interest in players like Drew, Schmidt and Zito. Unless, of course, Hendry is trying to fly below the radar or some nonsense like that.

Thats how I see him being used.

I couldn't disagree more. Hendry signed Ramirez to an extension for a really great price leaving more money for the Cubs to get the other players they need. He also brought on board a 5th starter option who could be pretty good for just 1.5 guaranteed and brought back Kerry for only 1.75 guaranteed when he could have easily gotten more by going elsewhere. That's definitely doing something. I couldn't agree more. He has a very long way to go and he doesn't deserve any praise until he returns the Cubs to the postseason. Clearly the most important part of the off season is yet to come. The current Cubs are the same Cubs that stunk the past two years. He didn't bring a 5th starter onboard, Miller was already here. And he could just as easily be useless as he could be pretty good. Hendry kept the team together so far. Big deal. He needs to make the team a lot better. He has not done that yet. People are getting excited about the 2006 team returning. I don't get it. He's positioned the team so that it can get better, but it has not yet gotten better. Exactly, its no big deal. He's got a long way to go. We agree. We've stated that over and over again. But he hasn't simply brought back the same people as last year. He has done so at a lower price tag than many thought possible. That's worth acknowledging, isn't it? I'm not saying we should get all excited about it and sing Hendry's praises. I'm just saying good job. Now the Cubs have even more money to go out and get the players they need to make the team good enough to make the playoffs. If we are ready and willing to criticize every move the guy makes that we disagree with, shouldn't we also be willing to acknowledge a job well done? I can't imagine those players signing for any less than they did. Can you?

I couldn't disagree more. Hendry signed Ramirez to an extension for a really great price leaving more money for the Cubs to get the other players they need. He also brought on board a 5th starter option who could be pretty good for just 1.5 guaranteed and brought back Kerry for only 1.75 guaranteed when he could have easily gotten more by going elsewhere. That's definitely doing something. I couldn't agree more. He has a very long way to go and he doesn't deserve any praise until he returns the Cubs to the postseason. Clearly the most important part of the off season is yet to come.

True that, but who is? No one that I know of is saying its time to celebrate or that his job is done. As far as the 6 wins thing, you forgot the potential impact of a full year of Rich Hill and the addition of Wade Miller as a possible 5th starter. But regardless of how many wins the roster as it stands right now might be able to produce, it likely won't be enough to make the post season and so Hendry has got a lot more work to do. But at least his ability to sign Miller, Wood and Ramirez as cheaply as he has, will give the Cubs that much more money to go out and get the players they still need to win the division.

You just did. :lol: Seriously, though, all view points are welcome.

No, its really not. Effectively, the Cubs have added Derrek Lee, Rich Hill and a fully rehabbed Wade Miller who over his last three starts pitched 14.2 innings, striking out 13, allowing 8 hits only 1 of them a HR and posted a WHIP of 1.23 with an ERA of 1.84. I'm not saying he will come close to doing that over the course of a full season, but he has shown that he can be effective. Now all he has to do is stay healthy which has admittedly proven rather difficult for Miller of late. On a lesser note, the Cubs also added the infield options of Cesar Izturis and Ryan Theriot both of whom were late additions to the roster that lost 66 games. I realize you wrote "mostly the same" as the roster that lost 66 games, but the relative additions of Lee, Hill and an effective Miller are fairly major additions that seemingly will impact a team's won-loss record.

I'd say getting back to the playoffs, or at least having a record good enough to get into the playoffs most years. And I don't think I'd excuse Hendry even if there are injuries; he's used that excuse once too often. Part of his job is to build a team capable of winning despite injuries.That's very true, but how realistic is it to expect to win when the injuries are basically season ending, happen early in the year and involve arguably your two best players? I agree that he needs to provide better bench and depth options and that that is part of his job, but no GM is going to be able to adequately replace Lee and Prior, are they?

If we were talking about football rather than baseball a 2-4 start might justify panic. :DHeck, 7-1 brought about some panic. The talk after the Bears loss to the Dolphins was that Grossman should be benched and that they were only undefeated going into that game because of a weak schedule. Then they go into the Meadowlands and beat the Giants 38-20 with Grossman throwing 3 TDs and looking good doing it. He took hits. His team turned the ball over several times, but he never got rattled. Now they are 8-1 and all the talk is how they are going to the Super Bowl. Wow... It just goes to show that overreaction isn't a characteristic unique to just Cubs fans.