Little Slide Rooter

They need to either have a big expensive offseason or sell whatever they can. No point in any in between. By expensive offseason, I mean the 3moves that have been discussed in every thread inn which the off season has been discussed. If they plan on letting Ram wall, and don't plan on signing one of the big 1B, theres no point resigning Pena and filling the other holes with junk.Byrd and Dempster could fetch a very nice price if that were the plan and we can enjoy Lou Momtanez, Brian LaHair, and Casey Coleman for a fun filled 100 loss season. Do you think for a moment that a lineup of Jackson Castro Byrd Pena soto Baker Soriano (Montanez/Colvin/Whatever if they trade him) Barney And the rotation we started this year with would be good for anything but another distant 5th?

Maybe not. It comes down to is that the offseason needs to be feast or famine. Preferably feast. They cant build a few dime store free agents and farm hands around what they already have an expect anything more than what this team has done. If they don't go all out and re sign Ramirez and sign Pujols or Fielder, as well as hopefully Wilson or another solid starter they may as well go all out fire sale, because if they do go that route, Byrd, Dempster, and probably Soto and Marshall will be long gone by the time theyre ready to contend again.

If it came down to that, they're dump everything they can. They could get the payroll down to about 90. If you believe the turd media boogeymen like Rosenthal and Wittenmyer, which i dont, your going to hear a lot of that. I don't think it will happen, and hope it doesn't happen, but we really don't know what goes on behind those doors when the ownership and management is assessing the situation. This being said, as low as attendance is dipping, I'm sure they know as well as we do that if they put out a quality team for 2012, it will shoot up overnight. That's why I don't by into Joe Cowleys this is becoming a White Sox town bull [expletive], because even if they were able to take over, the minute the Cubs decided to win again, every last one of the turncoats would flood back north.

While I agree fully that with the right moves, the Cubs can very much contend next year, if not emerge as the favorites for the division, but of the owners decide on a fire sale and a youth movement, that's beyond our control, and guys like Byrd, Dempster, Soto, and Baker are the guys who should be shopped. I really hope it doesn't come down to that, and really dont think it should, but again, it's not our decision and what happens happens.

Which is what made that team more palatable. We knew they were bad from the get go, and when Lee went down, we knew it was over. This team had talent. If nothing else, they could have been a dark horse for the division, or at least flirting with .500. There's no way that this team should be as bad or worse than that joke of a team in 2006, injuries or not.

Thanks for trying out Dave Bush, please accept this autographed picture of Jerome Walton as your parting gift.

Per Bruce Miles-Z:"I want to stay, but the team needs a change". Didn't quite specify exactly what he meant.

If it doesn't make sense, and all we have are unnamed sources, then I think the conclusion you should draw is that the reports that the Cubs are willing to pay "a lot" of his contract and "no one wants him" are exaggerated. I can pretty much guarantee that if Jim Hendry went to any contender and said if you want Zambrano for a hand full of fringe prospects and we'll eat 80% his salary, he wouldn't get a lot of nos.

Those aren't mutually exclusive ideas. Signing a 28 year old first baseman who's one of the best hitters in the game and a 31 year old pitcher who has less mileage on his arm than the vast majority of 30+ guys is building a longterm contender. Pick up those two fill in young stars like Castro and Soto and solid young players like Jackson, McNutt, Szczur, Whitenack, etc., coming up and you have the makings of an extremely good team going forward long term. And at the same time adding Fielder and Wilson gives us the tools to be competitive next year as well. Tearing the current team apart and eliminating any chance of contending for 2-3 years is pointless for a team that can win as soon as next year, while at the same time bringing in the pieces to be serious contenders long term. I'm in favor of the Cubs paying out for an elite free agent or two, since as you mentioned, those are longterm propositions. I still don't like their chances in 2012 though. That's why I don't agree with making the guys with one year left untouchable, if there are solid offers out there. Ramirez made Ramirez untouchable. If he's in next years plans, I'm OK with that.

So sign the 28 year old Fielder. The point is we can have that kind of superstar player again if we're willing to pay them and a combo of Fielder/Wilson without giving away Zambrano makes this team a contender in a really horrid division. It should tell you something about where this team is, when the strongest argument in favor of the Cubs potentially contending next year is that they play in a really horrid division. You never hear "well the Cubs' pitching is terrific" or "the heart of the order is killer" or "look at all the young players entering their prime". It's always, "they might suck less than everyone else". How about focusing on building a team that can contend in any division, even if the process takes more than a year and involves trading a Marshall or a Ramirez for pieces that will be more valuable in the longterm. Wouldn't the strongest argument be that we have one of the best hitters in baseball in this scenario? If we could get Fielder or Pujols, and keep Ramirez, the heart of the lineup would be great. 2. Castro 3. Aram 4. Fielder/Pujols 5. Byrd 6. Soto If we could get Wilson, a rotation of Wilson, Garza, Demp, Z, Cash/Wells would rival '08-'09. This would be one of the better teams in the NL. The Phillies are aging. The Giants are perenially offensively challenged. The Brewers and Cards will both get worse before they get better. Not only would we benefit from a weak divison, but a weak league. With those moves, and those alone, I would very, very much like that teams chances.

I guess that awesome at bat he had to end the game last night earned him a start.

They got C Patt. And Octavio Dotel. So um...yeah.

If they really want to get quality back in return, they'll need to move Byrd, Marshall, Marmol, or Soto, but if they plan to contend next year, they probably want to hang on to those guys. They should really be shopping Baker and Johnson at this point in addition to the obviouses in Pena and Fukudome. Maybe even James Russell. Teams always want lefty relievers and Russell is solid.

I'm pretty sure he's not overvalued as he's been on like 10 teams in 5 years. Then again, he's been traded for some awfully good players. This. It seems like everyone wants him on their team except the team that has him. I'm sure the Cards will deal him next year to someone like the Twins for Aaron Hicks or something They''ll have to give him an extension 1st.

Hopefully it results in Rick Ankiel being brought back. I love that I can troll Rick Ankiel and not get banned for it. I wonder what Chris Duncan and Scott Speizio are up to these days.

Die in a fire, Jim Hendry. Unless we're also getting some good prospects back, why just give Zambrano away? It really depends on how much money the Cubs are giving. Just giving Z away and only eating say 3 million this year and 3 million next year could be a good deal for the Cubs. There are things to be worried about with how some of Z's numbers are trending. He'll have a decent amount of value for the Cubs next year, but if they have 15 extra million to play with they could find somebody who gets more value than Z does. If that were the case I wouldnt mind, but the talk seems like the Cubs will end up eating a lot more than 3 mil in this deal. The whole thing reeks of a proper fire sale.

The only logic I can think of is that moving Teahens salary was more important than getting Rasmus. Resinsdorf is reportedly presuring Williams to cut salary, and guys like Rios, Dunn, and Peavy arent exactly moveable.Of course, they probably could have done both.

If it makes you feel any better, you got another former top prospect in Corey Patterson.

Could be huge for the Giants. Giants 2010 1st round pick Gary Brown probably involved.

This is a weird deal. Apparently, Trevor Miller will also end up with the White Sox. Not sure why the Blue Jays want Brian Tallet back.

To Cubs fans, there are only 2 types of pirchers, aces and bums. Unfortunately, Z isnt an ace, and is therefore a bum and must go.

So will you feel better if were paying Soriano to hit .255/.775 with 20some HR for the Orioles while we have Lou M0ntenez hitting .235/.650?

I figure this deserves its own thread. Edwin Jackson and Mark Teahen to the Jays for Jason Frasor and Zack Stewart is a done deal. However, the bigger implication is that the word is that the Jays are about to flip Jackson and prospects to the Cardinals for Colby Rasmus.

He doesnt need to be anywhere near an ace. As weve learned all year long, middle of the rotation and even solid back of the rotation starting pitchers are very valuable. If we aquire someone like CJ Wilson next year, a rotation of Garza,Wilson,Dempster, Z, Cashner/Wells looks very good.