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There's credence to the argument that, after flipping Riot and DeRo, you could swap Riot out for Cedeno and improve the lineup. There's credence, but not altogether great IMO. Theriot is 174 points better against left-handers than right handers in his career. Cedeno in his career is 131 points better against right-handers than left-handers. Theriot is 4/6 against Davis, and Cedeno is 0/6. I'm all for giving Cedeno some starts right now, but this is the type of matchup that is good for Theriot. A left-hander who is a nibbler, won't come inside much, and Theriot has had success against him. Cedeno meanwhile struggles against left-handers, loves the ball inside, loves fastballs, and struggles with patience with pitchers who throw just off the outside corner. He also has had no success with Davis in limited at-bats. I'd start Cedeno at least one of Saturday or Sunday, but not tonight.

I think 2 outings is a little small for declaring he's not the same. In fact, it's just as likely that Marmol had too much rest before each outing and was too strong (he had 3 days of rest before the Florida appearance and 2 days before last night). His stuff wasn't bad at all last night, he was just overthrowing and missing badly with his slider because of that. The Diamondbacks were sitting on his fastball. The point is, it's not known for sure right now what was the reason for Marmol's bad outing, and it certainly couldn't be known to Lou when he made the decision last night. He put in a pitcher who had allowed runs in 1 of his last 20 outings. There wasn't any reason to believe that Marmol would not be effective-one 2 home run by Miguel Cabrera doesn't change a couple months of work. I agree with the Ward comment. As for the catcher thing, it was a decision that was definitely questioned by parts of the media. It makes sense that they would chime with their opinion that he made the right decision.

From the way that answer was worded, it sounds like Colvin has just enough speed to play CF right now (they already said in his writeup that the routes he takes are excellent) and as he grows he will have to sacrifice some of that speed for power, which will push him to a corner. That sounds pretty good to me. Either he doesn't add to his frame and remains at CF, or he will likely gain more power which will make his numbers look better in RF.

Hmmm. I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. If the Cubs somehow won the next two games, I doubt that the D-Backs would risk their season on a rookie pitching against Zambrano, IN Chicago. My guess is if the Cubs are up 2-1, Webb is pitching on Sunday. If Arizona is up 2-1, Webb pitches on Tuesday in Arizona. It would be real nice for the Cubs to be up 2-1 in this series rather than down 2-1 come Sunday. I think it would be a terrible decision for the Diamondbacks if they moved Webb up. He has never pitched on 3 days rest in his career, and the Diamondbacks have no real reason to move him up like the Cubs do. The difference between Micah Owings and Doug Davis is a lot smaller than the difference between Ted Lilly and Jason Marquis. The D-Backs would be giving themselves less chance of winning the series just to give them a greater chance of winning game 4. I hope they make that decision, but I doubt they will. But if the D-Backs are facing elimination, the difference between Webb on short rest versus Owning/Davis can be quite significant. Personally, the only way I see Arizona NOT using Webb in game four is if they're up 2-1. That way they can hope to clinch the series at Wrigley with Ownings/Davis or use Webb on regular rest at home. They are facing elimination in game 5 too. What does it matter if it helps them win game 4 but causes them to have a smaller chance of winning the series? It's better to give yourself the best chance to win the current game and hope you can cobble something together in the next one. If you don't win this game, it doesn't matter what you have saved up for game 5 (or, in the Cubs case, what ace you have saved up for game 4 :x). Why is it better though? Basically you're taking a known (Webb pitching well in game 5) and turning it into an unknown. Your chances of winning game 4 might be better, but if you can't win game 5 it doesn't matter. Basically, you have two games left. You can pitch Webb on short rest and Davis, or Webb on regular rest and Owings. Which is more likely to get good performances out of both? IMO, the second. The order of the games doesn't matter. Why is Webb pitching well in Game 5 a "known" - he's never had a bad game on an extra day of rest? If Webb pitching on short rest in Game 4 will (certainly or VERY likely) result in a bad outing and/or loss, then you save him for Game 5. That would be true if the Dbacks were thinking of pitching him tonight. But I don't think that's nearly the case. Especially since the alternative is an extra day of rest - which, in some cases, messes up a pitcher as much as short rest. Is he more likely to pitch well on 5 days rest than 3? If he's never pitched on 3 days rest, how can you possibly know (or even have an educated guess)? I have to figure a team would rather have their ace in a must-win Game 4 and their #2 in a must-win Game 5 than their #4 in a must-win Game 4 and their ace in Game 5. Especially when your ace is the best pitcher in the league. Their #4 is a more effective player then their #2. When you combine their pitching and hitting this season, Owings has been a lot better than Davis.

I'm with you if just because I think Owings is their 2nd best chance to win. If the D-Backs are down 2-1, you're going to use Webb at some point. You can bring him back on 3 days rest where he'll in all likelihood pitch worse than he would on full rest, or you can give him full rest and go with a similar pitcher in game 4(Owings) that you would have in Davis. Now if the D-Backs had Livan slated for game 4, I could understand cause Livan is the D-Backs' Marquis. Agreed with everything, especially the last point. If you're replacing Livan, it's entirely different, because he's not nearly as good as Owings on the mound or at the plate.

Hmmm. I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. If the Cubs somehow won the next two games, I doubt that the D-Backs would risk their season on a rookie pitching against Zambrano, IN Chicago. My guess is if the Cubs are up 2-1, Webb is pitching on Sunday. If Arizona is up 2-1, Webb pitches on Tuesday in Arizona. It would be real nice for the Cubs to be up 2-1 in this series rather than down 2-1 come Sunday. I think it would be a terrible decision for the Diamondbacks if they moved Webb up. He has never pitched on 3 days rest in his career, and the Diamondbacks have no real reason to move him up like the Cubs do. The difference between Micah Owings and Doug Davis is a lot smaller than the difference between Ted Lilly and Jason Marquis. The D-Backs would be giving themselves less chance of winning the series just to give them a greater chance of winning game 4. I hope they make that decision, but I doubt they will. But if the D-Backs are facing elimination, the difference between Webb on short rest versus Owning/Davis can be quite significant. Personally, the only way I see Arizona NOT using Webb in game four is if they're up 2-1. That way they can hope to clinch the series at Wrigley with Ownings/Davis or use Webb on regular rest at home. They are facing elimination in game 5 too. What does it matter if it helps them win game 4 but causes them to have a smaller chance of winning the series? It's better to give yourself the best chance to win the current game and hope you can cobble something together in the next one. If you don't win this game, it doesn't matter what you have saved up for game 5 (or, in the Cubs case, what ace you have saved up for game 4 :x). Why is it better though? Basically you're taking a known (Webb pitching well in game 5) and turning it into an unknown. Your chances of winning game 4 might be better, but if you can't win game 5 it doesn't matter. Basically, you have two games left. You can pitch Webb on short rest and Davis, or Webb on regular rest and Owings. Which is more likely to get good performances out of both? IMO, the second. The order of the games doesn't matter. It will to the manager (in reference to what I bolded). The order does matter in that there is no game 5 if you don't win game 4. Sure, you've got a tougher time winning whenever Davis or Owings or whomever pitches, BUT you take the more sure thing to force the deciding game if you have the chance. Yeah, I agree that it will to the manager. The D-Backs might get desperate and pitch Webb game 4. I hope they do because that just makes it more likely the Cubs will win the series.

I think tonight you'll see: Soriano Theriot Lee Ramirez Murton Derosa Soto Jones Lilly Theriot is 4/6 against Davis, and Lou doesn't like using hitters with his lack of power in anything but the 2 or 8 spot. Since Jones is going in the 8 spot automatically, that means Theriot will bat 2nd. Kendall might start, but I see Soto starting against the left-hander like normal and Kendall getting the start in game 3. Derosa and Murton might be switched in the order-those are the only 2 I'm really unsure about.

Hmmm. I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. If the Cubs somehow won the next two games, I doubt that the D-Backs would risk their season on a rookie pitching against Zambrano, IN Chicago. My guess is if the Cubs are up 2-1, Webb is pitching on Sunday. If Arizona is up 2-1, Webb pitches on Tuesday in Arizona. It would be real nice for the Cubs to be up 2-1 in this series rather than down 2-1 come Sunday. I think it would be a terrible decision for the Diamondbacks if they moved Webb up. He has never pitched on 3 days rest in his career, and the Diamondbacks have no real reason to move him up like the Cubs do. The difference between Micah Owings and Doug Davis is a lot smaller than the difference between Ted Lilly and Jason Marquis. The D-Backs would be giving themselves less chance of winning the series just to give them a greater chance of winning game 4. I hope they make that decision, but I doubt they will. But if the D-Backs are facing elimination, the difference between Webb on short rest versus Owning/Davis can be quite significant. Personally, the only way I see Arizona NOT using Webb in game four is if they're up 2-1. That way they can hope to clinch the series at Wrigley with Ownings/Davis or use Webb on regular rest at home. They are facing elimination in game 5 too. What does it matter if it helps them win game 4 but causes them to have a smaller chance of winning the series? It's better to give yourself the best chance to win the current game and hope you can cobble something together in the next one. If you don't win this game, it doesn't matter what you have saved up for game 5 (or, in the Cubs case, what ace you have saved up for game 4 :x). Why is it better though? Basically you're taking a known (Webb pitching well in game 5) and turning it into an unknown. Your chances of winning game 4 might be better, but if you can't win game 5 it doesn't matter. Basically, you have two games left. You can pitch Webb on short rest and Davis, or Webb on regular rest and Owings. Which is more likely to get good performances out of both? IMO, the second. The order of the games doesn't matter.

Hmmm. I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. If the Cubs somehow won the next two games, I doubt that the D-Backs would risk their season on a rookie pitching against Zambrano, IN Chicago. My guess is if the Cubs are up 2-1, Webb is pitching on Sunday. If Arizona is up 2-1, Webb pitches on Tuesday in Arizona. It would be real nice for the Cubs to be up 2-1 in this series rather than down 2-1 come Sunday. I think it would be a terrible decision for the Diamondbacks if they moved Webb up. He has never pitched on 3 days rest in his career, and the Diamondbacks have no real reason to move him up like the Cubs do. The difference between Micah Owings and Doug Davis is a lot smaller than the difference between Ted Lilly and Jason Marquis. The D-Backs would be giving themselves less chance of winning the series just to give them a greater chance of winning game 4. I hope they make that decision, but I doubt they will. But if the D-Backs are facing elimination, the difference between Webb on short rest versus Owning/Davis can be quite significant. Personally, the only way I see Arizona NOT using Webb in game four is if they're up 2-1. That way they can hope to clinch the series at Wrigley with Ownings/Davis or use Webb on regular rest at home. They are facing elimination in game 5 too. What does it matter if it helps them win game 4 but causes them to have a smaller chance of winning the series?

Hmmm. I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. If the Cubs somehow won the next two games, I doubt that the D-Backs would risk their season on a rookie pitching against Zambrano, IN Chicago. My guess is if the Cubs are up 2-1, Webb is pitching on Sunday. If Arizona is up 2-1, Webb pitches on Tuesday in Arizona. It would be real nice for the Cubs to be up 2-1 in this series rather than down 2-1 come Sunday. I think it would be a terrible decision for the Diamondbacks if they moved Webb up. He has never pitched on 3 days rest in his career, and the Diamondbacks have no real reason to move him up like the Cubs do. The difference between Micah Owings and Doug Davis is a lot smaller than the difference between Ted Lilly and Jason Marquis. The D-Backs would be giving themselves less chance of winning the series just to give them a greater chance of winning game 4. I hope they make that decision, but I doubt they will.

I don't understand how you can say Lee's ball wasn't hit well. That ball was through the infield pretty quickly. Theriot's was definitely a cheap hit, the only ball the Cubs didn't hit well that fell in all night. I agree with the Ramirez fly ball comments. I think people are more talking about the line drives. Z's line drive, Floyd's two line drives, Soriano's liner. The Cubs had at least 6 line drives last night, and only 2 of them dropped down for hits. That isn't very good luck, even if you take out the Ramirez fly balls, the Soto ground ball, and the Jones grounder.

Webb isn't pitching on Sunday. Z is, but Webb is going in game 5 on Tuesday.

Game 4 looks good on paper... Webb is only 2-3 in day games and the wind is going to be howling out according to Sunday's forecast. Two things: 1) If the wind is howling out and Webb is pitching, that's a very bad thing. He's going to keep the ball down more than any pitcher the Cubs send down there, which means the Diamondbacks are going to hit more home runs than the Cubs in that scenario. 2) Thankfully, Webb is not the game 4 starter. Micah Owings is, and he is a flyball pitcher. If the wind is blowing out with Owings on the mound, that should be advantage Cubs. Until Owings comes up to hit! My thoughts exactly. As much as Owings scares me with the bat, I'd still take the Cubs power hitters with Owings on the mound rather than the Diamondbacks power hitters with Z on the mound in a game where the wind is howling out.

Zambrano was on auto-pilot, there was no reason to pull him. You don't pull a starter that YOU KNOW is dominant AT THAT TIME, even if it's for your best reliever. You don't know whether Marmol has his stuff or not that night, but you KNOW Zambrano does. Ok, I understand what you're saying and we can debate that. But to say that Lou was trying to lose or concede the game, that's just plain assinine. Lou was absolutely playing for Game 4 by taking him out at 85 pitches. How about we try to win one first? You have to win 3 games. If your chance of winning game 4 goes up by more than your chance of losing game 1, then it's the correct move.

Game 4 looks good on paper... Webb is only 2-3 in day games and the wind is going to be howling out according to Sunday's forecast. Two things: 1) If the wind is howling out and Webb is pitching, that's a very bad thing. He's going to keep the ball down more than any pitcher the Cubs send down there, which means the Diamondbacks are going to hit more home runs than the Cubs in that scenario. 2) Thankfully, Webb is not the game 4 starter. Micah Owings is, and he is a flyball pitcher. If the wind is blowing out with Owings on the mound, that should be advantage Cubs.

So does most of the board. If somebody went back and read through all the game logs and all the rants pages after the Cubs struggled on offense this year, you'll see many rants about tip your cap. This board is very much one to blame the offense and probably not give as much credit to the pitcher as is sometimes due. When they actually do give credit, it then makes you sit up and notice because it doesn't happen very often. Now, that's not necessarily a bad thing to focus on what our offense is doing right/doing wrong rather than what the pitcher is doing. I'm just saying that these posts crediting Webb are not common for most pitchers, and the board is not nearly as quick to tip the cap as you're implying. As for the sinker, I think some people are confusing his sinker (which was only ok last night) with the nasty changeup that he was striking quite a few out with low in the zone. Here's a quote from Lee: And an add on from Webb: When Lee sounds mystified even after the game, and Webb states that he had the best offspeed stuff of the year (which certainly he doesn't say very often) it's pretty certain the players all think he had good stuff.

Remember what Bruce said earlier in the game thread. Lou said before the game that he was going to use Z for 100+ pitches tonight if he was effective. Something during the game made him change that opinion, and we don't know what it was yet.

On the bright side, Webb isn't as fresh as he was when he started the game about 27 pitches ago On the bright side, Webb isn't pitching anymore. Unfortunately, they have their best relievers in the game as well, but hopefully the Cubs can do the same thing to them that the Diamondbacks did to Marmol.

Not if you're on 3 days rest, it isn't. Yup, I think it's the combination of the heat and the fact that they want to pitch him in game 4.

I dont agree with this at all. Not against Webb. Yeah, Webb is someone who you need to swing at th first pitch more often than not. Unless it's out of the zone of course. Webb wants you to swing at his early sinkers. Why would doing what he wants be a good thing? Webb hates to get behind in the count, so he tries to throw get me over pitches on the first pitch or two to get ahead in the count. Those are the pitches to attack before he throws those sinkers on the edge of the zone if you get behind in the count.

Better than Riot. Not ideal, but I don't mind. At least the riot can put together some competent at bats every once in a while. Jacque Jones at bat embarrasses me to be a Cubs fan. And yet, somehow, when Theriot came up to the plate, he was slightly more likely to make an out. Not arguing that fact, but I still have yet to figure out why. Easy. As many horrible swings as Jacque takes, he has the ability to make the pitcher pay for mistake pitches. Theriot doesn't have a very good approach at the plate either for somebody of his type (he doesn't see very many pitches per at bat and puts the first 3 pitches into play more than any other Cub). When you combine that with it being much harder for Theriot to take advantage of pitcher's mistakes, it means that even when Theriot drives the ball it turns into a lot of easy flyball outs.

For the Cubs, yes. I remember the Bears Super-bowl thread was pretty big pre-game. We had 2 weeks to fill that up. Yeah, the Super Bowl game thread was a monster before the game had even started. Which makes sense-the Colts and Bears hadn't faced each other in quite a while, so there was a lot to discuss about how the teams matched up that isn't present for the Cubs and Diamondbacks who have seen each other a few times already this year. Also, all roster and injury news was discussed in the one thread rather than splitting it out like we have the last few days. I believe the Super Bowl thread has something like 120 pages before it started. 40 pages pre-game for a baseball thread (what it should be at the least by game time) is quite impressive I think.

Better than Riot. Not ideal, but I don't mind. At least the riot can put together some competent at bats every once in a while. Jacque Jones at bat embarrasses me to be a Cubs fan. Theriot might put together some competent at-bats, but he isn't very productive at the plate. I'd rather take the guy who looks worse most of the time but produces more runs.

Augie with Cubs: 316 AB's, .196/.270/.275 Augie on another team: 172 AB's, .297/.386/.390 Now I know both of those are too small of sample sizes, but I honestly never thought that Augie could ever have that kind of production in any 172 at-bat sample. I can't believe he's back in the major leagues, I can't believe he was one of the Diamondbacks top pinch hitters for a while earlier in the season, and I really can't believe how he's the starting second baseman for a playoff team and somehow isn't a major hole there. I honestly have no idea how he has done it.

Look at his pre-season picks, especially this sentence: The Reds as the division winner in a division good enough to have a WC winner as well? Even before the season, that was ridiculous.